4 ms·

I support linux gaming btw but I can't help but feel every narrative glosses over that certain games are going to require uncomfortably intrusive anti-cheating

I support linux gaming btw but I can't help but feel every narrative glosses over that certain games are going to require uncomfortably intrusive anti-cheating systems. I'm just realizing that I can't play Battlefield 6 and I do wonder what the path is. I don't think it's ever going to be supported on Linux or Mac.

encom 6mo ago
The fact that some games now come with root kits is insane. I really hope Microsoft cracks down on that nonsense.
- ChocolateGod 6mo ago
  Given the kernel level anticheats inform you they're going to be installed, I don't think they fit the definition of a root kit.
  - bigyabai 6mo ago
    CloudStrike was installed with user consent, and still ended up being a fatal rootkit. Installing software in Ring 0 is always a bad idea.
HDBaseT 6mo ago
What is even more insane is I was playing Battlefield 1 on Linux for years, until in 2023(?) they backported "EA Anticheat" to BF1, half a decade after the game stopped getting support. This broke what was otherwise a perfectly normal Battlefield experience. Battlefield 4 requires Punkbuster, although it can run on Linux with no issues. You have to downgrade to an older version though, since EA hasn't updated BF4 to the latest PB AC, which causes you to get kicked.
bigyabai 6mo ago
Battlefield 4 plays great on Linux, with active servers and functional crossplay/anticheat. It's usually less than $5 on sale and satiates my transient BF urges.
Sohcahtoa82 6mo ago
Unfortunately, the alternative to uncomfortably intrusive anti-cheat is more cheaters, because cheaters don't care about how intrusive their cheats have to be in order to evade anti-cheat. They will happily run hypervisor-level cheats. There's certainly room for improvement on the netcode sometimes (Client-side hit registration is an absolute bone-headed design), but those won't prevent aim bots. Server-side anti-cheat relies on heuristics and can easily be evaded. At the high level, a highly-skilled player may be indistinguishable from a cheater, so you could easily get false positives.
- skupig 6mo ago
  I don't think that's necessarily true, I think companies are lazy and highly invasive anticheat is an easy win they can license from a 3rd party. Algorithmic security, server-side heuristics, and human review can get you far. I have very, very rarely seen a blatant cheater in Overwatch (maybe 3 times in 10 years?), for example, and yet it's been playable via WINE for almost its entire lifetime.
  - KennyBlanken 6mo ago
    Overwatch is more dependent upon teamwork, ability usage, positioning, etc. Cheating is endemic in BR and tactical shooter type games. I remember one f2p game was deleting 50,000 cheater accounts every month.
    - Dylan16807 6mo ago
      A key phrase being free to play. If the developer's winning $20 per cheater detection, and puts in extra resources when there's more cheaters, the equilibrium ends up a lot better. And even for free games, I could imagine different ways to tie a monetary stake in in exchange for skipping invasive anticheats.
  - MintPaw 6mo ago
    I recently had my faith shattered with I saw someone lock onto an ally through a wall in a kill cam, and I haven't played sense. Blatant cheaters are bad in some ways, but subtle cheat are far worse imo.

encom 6mo ago

The fact that some games now come with root kits is insane. I really hope Microsoft cracks down on that nonsense.

ChocolateGod 6mo ago
Given the kernel level anticheats inform you they're going to be installed, I don't think they fit the definition of a root kit.
- bigyabai 6mo ago
  CloudStrike was installed with user consent, and still ended up being a fatal rootkit. Installing software in Ring 0 is always a bad idea.

HDBaseT 6mo ago

What is even more insane is I was playing Battlefield 1 on Linux for years, until in 2023(?) they backported "EA Anticheat" to BF1, half a decade after the game stopped getting support. This broke what was otherwise a perfectly normal Battlefield experience. Battlefield 4 requires Punkbuster, although it can run on Linux with no issues. You have to downgrade to an older version though, since EA hasn't updated BF4 to the latest PB AC, which causes you to get kicked.

bigyabai 6mo ago

Battlefield 4 plays great on Linux, with active servers and functional crossplay/anticheat. It's usually less than $5 on sale and satiates my transient BF urges.

Sohcahtoa82 6mo ago

Unfortunately, the alternative to uncomfortably intrusive anti-cheat is more cheaters, because cheaters don't care about how intrusive their cheats have to be in order to evade anti-cheat. They will happily run hypervisor-level cheats. There's certainly room for improvement on the netcode sometimes (Client-side hit registration is an absolute bone-headed design), but those won't prevent aim bots. Server-side anti-cheat relies on heuristics and can easily be evaded. At the high level, a highly-skilled player may be indistinguishable from a cheater, so you could easily get false positives.

skupig 6mo ago
I don't think that's necessarily true, I think companies are lazy and highly invasive anticheat is an easy win they can license from a 3rd party. Algorithmic security, server-side heuristics, and human review can get you far. I have very, very rarely seen a blatant cheater in Overwatch (maybe 3 times in 10 years?), for example, and yet it's been playable via WINE for almost its entire lifetime.
- KennyBlanken 6mo ago
  Overwatch is more dependent upon teamwork, ability usage, positioning, etc. Cheating is endemic in BR and tactical shooter type games. I remember one f2p game was deleting 50,000 cheater accounts every month.
  - Dylan16807 6mo ago
    A key phrase being free to play. If the developer's winning $20 per cheater detection, and puts in extra resources when there's more cheaters, the equilibrium ends up a lot better. And even for free games, I could imagine different ways to tie a monetary stake in in exchange for skipping invasive anticheats.
- MintPaw 6mo ago
  I recently had my faith shattered with I saw someone lock onto an ally through a wall in a kill cam, and I haven't played sense. Blatant cheaters are bad in some ways, but subtle cheat are far worse imo.