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I made the tragic mistake of getting a Bambu printer (an X1C, with AMS even...) right before they gave all of us the middle finger. I now have it offline, runni

by jchw 5mo ago

I made the tragic mistake of getting a Bambu printer (an X1C, with AMS even...) right before they gave all of us the middle finger. I now have it offline, running out of date firmware, connected to a special WiFi network that is isolated from the Internet. That upset me, but now I'm pissed. Now I don't even care about their stupid printers. Now I'd like to waste Bambu Lab's time and cause problems for them. And also, while this X1C should be going strong for years, my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Less polished or not, they seem like they're still better for consumers even though they are apparently less open than they used to be. But I'm of course interested in hearing what people recommend, too. (I got an X1C because I knew it would be simple, but I don't particularly mind getting my hands dirty or anything. I did build an Ender 3 kit before that.)

sottol 5mo ago
Once you have a reliable printer, the workflow is mostly to slice -> send to printer -> wait and check on it every couple of hours until it's done ime. Imo it no longer super matters how much better the on-screen ui or webcam are. Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up. (Diluted) Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive and a good bed leveling probe has done a lot to make my printer set and forget, no matter which print sheets I use.
- nicce 5mo ago
  Wasn’t the main hassle in calibrarion and Bambu was good in that and is major reason for popularity? So ”once you have a reliable printer” is kinda big thing.
  - anamexis 5mo ago
    Prusa is on par with Bambu in that respect. Really, Prusa are the ones that pioneered hassle-free calibration.
    - holowoodman 5mo ago
      What Prusa is that? Last one I've used (not my own, community lab), I had to level the bed using the sheet-of-paper-method. Which is the reason why I got a Bambu for myself.
      - MBCook 5mo ago
        They fixed that with the 3.5 or 3.9 upgrade many years ago. The 4 and Core One families never had to do it. Edit: and yes, it did suck
      - mofosyne 5mo ago
        Got the Prusa MK3S+ and it's been perfectly reliable for years
      - Steltek 5mo ago
        My mk3s+ (circa 2020) had a bed sensor. It's still super reliable and I'm only upgrading it to a Core One L because of the upcoming INDX system. Prusa quality, ethics, and true multi-material (not multi-color) in a compact package? Yes please!
- busterarm 5mo ago
  > Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up. I'm excited for INDX but going to wait a year or so.
  - cassianoleal 5mo ago
    I'm waiting for my Founders Edition. I'm confident it will work well, even if not perfectly at first.
- darkteflon 5mo ago
  Can anyone in the commentariat recommend a great, locally available adhesive in Japan? Vision Miner is import-only and pricey. I’ve been using glue-sticks but am ready to level up as I’m moving away from PLA.
  - martin_a 5mo ago
    Can you get 3DLAC in Japan? That's what I'm using with great success. Otherwise maybe try some hair sprays, that worked in 2011, too... :-D
    - consp 5mo ago
      3DLAC is hairspray with a different label, you can smell it... I use it too though as it is the easiest high strength hairspray to get.
      - martin_a 5mo ago
        Yeah, I always thought that, especially after seeing that the producer is a beauty company... :-D
  - vallassy 5mo ago
    Depending on your level of DIY-ness and willingness to handle powders, you could make some Super Goop. I've heard good things about it but haven't yet had enough bed adhesion issues to make it yet. https://github.com/MakerBogans/docs/wiki/Printer-goop https://github.com/MakerBogans/docs/wiki/Printer-goop
  - faangguyindia 5mo ago
    I've used thinned out real PVA glue (not polyurethane) for years.
  - lobsterthief 5mo ago
    High-hold hairspray will work wonders for you. I’ve been using it to print, including on glass, since 2014.
  - 5mo ago
microtonal 5mo ago
After my initial Ender 3v2 (which was my entry point to 3D printing, but a terrible printer otherwise), we bought a Prusa even thought it was much more expensive than Bambu because we wanted to support a European company and because as a European company they are under the GDPR. It has been absolutely great and low-effort. I haven't needed it yet, but their printers seem to be focused on easy maintenance by their owners.
- foxylad 5mo ago
  Same, but the first printer was an Anet A8. Moving to a Prussa Mini was a breath of fresh air, going from 35% to 95% print success.
bdcravens 5mo ago
It may not have been a feature then, but you can run updated firmware and still keep it offline by using Developer Mode. https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-developer-mode https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-develo...
- jchw 5mo ago
  I don't trust it anymore. I'm using LAN mode today, I have little incentive to update. If I update to anything, it will certainly be third-party modified firmware.
  - bdcravens 5mo ago
    The only one that I'm familiar with is https://github.com/X1Plus/X1Plus https://github.com/X1Plus/X1Plus
    - darkteflon 5mo ago
      Have been keeping an eye on this. Hoping they’ll add the A1 family at some point.
  - nirav72 5mo ago
    I'm running my P2S in LAN mode. But I also blocked it on my router from connecting outward. Sure I can no longer use the mobile app. But BamBuddy solved that for me. It has a web UI that is mobile browser friendly.
offbynull 5mo ago
I'm also in the same boat of regret, but for other reasons. Their support team is beyond awful. I purchased an H2S AMS combo just shy of two months ago (mostly because I saw it being praised by HNers a while back) and found out recently that the AMS they've sent me is defective. It's been truly a bizarre experience trying to deal with customer support. They told me to disassemble the AMS and swap a couple of modules that they mailed me. I did, provided them evidence that I did, and provided evidence that it didn't fix the problem. Their response was to claim that I didn't actually swap the modules and that because of that my warranty no longer applies, and then they said they'd give me a free roll of filament for my troubles (lol). At that point I began the process of invoking the consumer protections afforded to me. Called my credit card company and opened a dispute, invoked Massachusetts law M.G.L. c. 93A, and I'm about to contact my AG. It's a shame they're going in such an anti-consumer direction, both with their gaslighting customer support and the lawfare against Orca.
- BowBun 5mo ago
  Just wanna say, I appreciate you going through the effort. Please share your story as it progresses!
- ndr42 5mo ago
  So "right to repair" is "duty to repair" now? /s
  - herbst 5mo ago
    I was offered to return it or try to fix it myself. In the end the fix was even easier than initially thought and it's working great since. No idea if that's because I am in the EU market and not US. They did take their time to respond but otherwise service was ok.
    - wolvoleo 5mo ago
      Same here. When I needed them they were on the ball. Though I haven't had a difficult or complex problem yet.
iugtmkbdfil834 5mo ago
But.. the good news is that any future potential buyers ( like me ) know to avoid that particular vendor. The issue, as it appears to be common lately, is that the number of buyers gets smaller and smaller as regulatory frameworks get more and more onerous. Otoh, I am more than happy to lend a helping hand. This is probably as good of a fight as it gets.
wolvoleo 5mo ago
Meh. I use bambu and I am a maker but it's not a big thing in my opinion. I bought a bambu precisely because I don't want to mod the thing with a gazillion custom upgrades like I needed to do with my previous printers to make them work reliably. I just want to press print and... print. Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down. And if you do want to go off the beaten track they have options. My hobby is not 3D printer tinkering. It's printing stuff to use. This is clearly what bambu market towards and they do the job really well. I know many people in the makerspace community that spend weeks tuning their perfect Klipper setup. Cool but I prefer spending those weeks perfecting my designs instead. It's hard to overstate the difference they made in out of the box capability especially for the price. And their spare parts are decently priced too. Now if they start locking down the consumables like other evil companies like 3D Systems and Da Vinci XYZ did then yes. Then they deserve all the blame they can get. The orcaslicer thing I don't know what to think about yet (I have to read up on it) but the discussion here was more about the local mode. Ps Bambu isn't the only brand I have. But I do like what they've done. It was exactly what I needed.
- HowTheStoryEnds 5mo ago
  Dude, the only reason you can be a maker is because of the many hours of work provided by the open source community. The very same one your support is trampling on since it's in favor of a company profiteering from them. All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.. Educate yourself on the issue and start having some respect.
  - wolvoleo 5mo ago
    I'm not being inconvenienced? And the open source community is open source precisely to drive the state of the art further. Having respect for other makers doesn't necessarily mean agreeing on everything. I'm just giving the other side of the story. If you wish to choose another brand you're free to do so of course. Not all my printers are bambu, in fact my latest one isn't either.
    - HowTheStoryEnds 5mo ago
bsder 5mo ago
> my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them. Bambu made real engineering improvements: linear slides, servomotor for feed, accelerometer tuning, etc. Has Prusa finally decided to compete again? A lot of us are willing to give a company more money for being open source, but the basic product can't be too significantly inferior. It looks like there is at least one linear slide on the Prusa Core One+ so that's a start...
- MBCook 5mo ago
  Bambu won with relentless free giveaways to every YouTuber on the planet, cheap prices, and a consumer friendly looking design. I don’t think they earned it. I suspect there is a huge number of people out there who bought them who don’t even know what else exists. They saw a YouTuber advertise one on a video making something and decided to buy that.
  - laweijfmvo 5mo ago
    Prusa is equally guilty there, I think. Every time I see a Youtuber receiving multiple free Prusa printers, while I continue to save and delay on the high price of getting one myself, I curse them a bit more.
    - MBCook 5mo ago
      In the last two years I could easily count on one hand the number of Prusas I’ve seen given out. Yeah, it happens. Bambu is straight up sending them to everyone breathing. 3D printer people? Given Bambu. Tinkerers? Bambu. Lego channels? Yeah seriously Bambu. Way outside the traditional maker channels. I’m not saying no one should give out free printers. But Bambu is carpet bombing YouTube, and they require the videos be turned into Bambu ads to do it. Having to show it multiple times, talk about its great features multiple times, etc. i’ve never seen the script but I’ve seen enough videos have conspicuously similar elements promoting the printer to know it must a condition. The videos I’ve seen where people get a free XL mention that fact, maybe one other, but that’s about it. It’s not hammered on like Bambu seems to want.
duxup 5mo ago
I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu. I was lucky and they didn’t have any in stock when I wanted to buy… Now I’m nervous about buying one from anyone.
- sho_hn 5mo ago
  > I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu. Bambu has spent a ton of dough on paid advertising via YouTube shills (it is absolutely rampant in that scene - I like the channel Maker's Muse as a notable exception, who also has some funny videos up where he reads emails from various vendors trying to bribe or intimidate him in various ways), and many in the HN crows were happy to parrot their talking points to justify their purchases. A winning marketing strategy. To this day you end up encountering a lot of people who are under the impression Bambu printers somehow made 3D printing accessible or are the only ticket to a problem-free experience. And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development. To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did.
  - imtringued 5mo ago
    You're rewriting history here because of something that you dislike that happened long after Bambu Labs became popular. In the beginning Bambu Labs came up with the X1C which is essentially a really good Core XY printer with an enclosure for $1500 that included a revolutionary AMS that no other manufacturer had. If you wanted a printer of similar quality, you would have had to build your own Voron for $1000 with the obvious caveat that you have to order the parts yourself and then assemble it. Then Bambu Lab releases the P1S, which is comparable to a Voron but cheaper and you don't have to assemble it. At that point Bambu Labs was no longer just a high end printer company with Apple aesthetics. Regular consumers could afford their printers. Then they came up with the A1 mini and the AMS Lite. They've started building a printer that is cheaper than an Ender 3, but has the same print quality as the higher end Bambu Lab printers and despite being a gantry design, much faster print speeds with low setup and maintenance. I personally got an A1 mini for $200. Compared to other Chinese competitors, their printers were both good and affordable. Prusa had good printers that were relatively expensive. Meanwhile if you bought an Ender 3, which was the community recommendation before Bambu Labs, you basically brought an unreliable low quality piece of garbage into your house that you constantly have to maintain when it breaks or upgrade features that should have been there out of the box. The abysmally bad Ender 3 gave outsiders the impression that most 3D printer enthusiasts treated the printer as the project rather than the things they make with the printer. Basically, the entire 3D printing community centered itself around a terrible overpriced 3D printer from a company that still produces garbage to this day. Meanwhile if you bought a rather expensive Bambu Labs printer you never had any issues to begin with. If the 3d printer community had centered around e.g. Sovol printers, this disconnect from reality probably have never happened. Then Bambu Labs came out with the A1 bed slinger and at that point they had a printer that was cheaper and better in every single aspect. The masks from the existing Chinese 3D printer companies peddling you garbage fell off. Suddenly they have X1C, P1S and A1 clones that are 90% as good as Bambu Labs printers. Like, every single manufacturer realized simultaneously that their printers were bad and that they could have sold you printers that weren't terrible. >And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development. You're assuming some marketing fantasy which isn't the case. Most Chinese printer manufacturers simply made terrible products before Bambu Labs. If you restrict yourself to Chinese manufacturers, then Prusa is out. Back in those days when you were buying a Chinese printer, they really were the only game in town. The thing about doing it on the back of others sounds stupid. There were hundreds of niche 3D printer companies that sold you unsupported products that barely worked. Obviously they didn't write their own software from scratch. They used existing software from the open source printer ecosystem. >To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did Now you're getting things backwards. Bambi Lab's is a lot like Apple here, with the difference that they don't charge Apple level premiums. I'm wondering how you can take it for granted that they are doing the equivalent of selling a MacBook Pro at the price of a regular MacBook. Bambi Lab also came up with two AMS types before everyone else adopted multi filament printing in a mass consumer basis. Not to mention quality of life features like quick change nozzles. You shouldn't rewrite history just because you don't like a company. Without Bamboo Labs we would be stuck with Creality.
skhameneh 5mo ago
If you’re eyeing Prusa, that’ll probably be ideal. ...but it does look like Sovol is teasing an INDX alternative (I have a Sovol SV08, it’s a “good value” tinkerer printer based on the Voron) And if you really want “open”, there’s isn’t much better than a Voron in that aspect.
ornornor 5mo ago
Speaking about Prusa, my experience has been that they’re very condescending to users. Extremely basic features (like serial printing) are considered “nice to have”. Some tickets have remained open for over 6 years now and ignored by prusa: - https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/189 https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/189 (still open after 6+ years) - https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/283 https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/283 (took 3.5 years to acknowledge and fix)
- aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
  It is well-known that Prusa is rather slow and hesitant to implement new features in their firmware because they really want new features also to work on their very old printers if possible. And Prusa really wants to avoid introducing regressions with new firmware versions (even though they are not perfect regarding this). Thus, because of this basically promise by Prusa, the pace with which new features become available is much slower. Prusa is for people who really want their 3D printers supported for a very long time.
  - ornornor 5mo ago
    These aren't new features, they're basic, widely available, standard features that Prusa removed and are now taking their time (6 years and counting) to add back in…
cookiengineer 5mo ago
Same experience. Wanted to get an X1C after I had saved enough, then I was lucky enough to be able to send it back within the 2 weeks time frame. I live in the EU so I was able to demand the refund. Now I am rebuilding my old Ender 3 with Openbuilds parts into a CoreXY setup, all metal hotend, sturdier metal frame, and the newer RAMPS board with a raspberry pi and klipper setup. Don't know enough about the multi tool related things, but maybe I am gonna focus on that afterwards. I am having tons of fun while doing so, it has been quite a while since I rebuilt my Anet A8 into an AM8 with a custom Marlin firmware back then.
jjkaczor 5mo ago
I was lucky enough to have seen the initial controversy and install the X1Plus firmware on my X1C about 2-weeks before lockdown. It has worked flawlessly with OrcaSlicer ever since. For monitoring when I am away from my office, I setup VPN, HomeAssistant and could do it from my computer - but there was also a "Bambu Companion" app released pretty quickly in that timeframe (there are probably others now) which allowed my to replace the "Bambu Handy" functionality on my phone. So - of course, I swore I would not buy another Bambu. But, when looking at the various pricing and other aspects of competitors - about a month ago I did end-up buying an H2C with double-AMS and an HT - mainly to reduce filament waste, have a larger build volume, be able to use multi-materials for support "quickly" and have active chamber heating for more "engineering" type filaments. Don't believe the hype about the chamber filter though - I have found with ABS, you still need external exhaust or air filtering as even though the chamber "closes" and recycles via the filter, you still have the "poop chute" venting fumes... ... and of course... even if I wanted to switch to LAN-mode, unfortunately OrcaSlicer does not yet support the H2C... perhaps it never will unfortunately...
natewrench 5mo ago
the problem is who owns the handshake, even if the slicer is under the agpl license i think this could cause a rewrite because this is a service level tivoization you cant use the software without the handshake, gplv1 allowed software based tivoization, gplv2 allowed hardware based tivoization, gplv3/agpl allows service based tivoization which mean theres a loophole looking to be closed all over again because if i use agpl web app from a public site, i have the right to get the code if i want to fork that code i have to violate the handshake

by jchw 5mo ago

sottol 5mo ago

Once you have a reliable printer, the workflow is mostly to slice -> send to printer -> wait and check on it every couple of hours until it's done ime. Imo it no longer super matters how much better the on-screen ui or webcam are. Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up. (Diluted) Vision Miner Nano Polymer Adhesive and a good bed leveling probe has done a lot to make my printer set and forget, no matter which print sheets I use.

nicce 5mo ago
Wasn’t the main hassle in calibrarion and Bambu was good in that and is major reason for popularity? So ”once you have a reliable printer” is kinda big thing.
- anamexis 5mo ago
  Prusa is on par with Bambu in that respect. Really, Prusa are the ones that pioneered hassle-free calibration.
  - holowoodman 5mo ago
    What Prusa is that? Last one I've used (not my own, community lab), I had to level the bed using the sheet-of-paper-method. Which is the reason why I got a Bambu for myself.
    - MBCook 5mo ago
      They fixed that with the 3.5 or 3.9 upgrade many years ago. The 4 and Core One families never had to do it. Edit: and yes, it did suck
    - mofosyne 5mo ago
      Got the Prusa MK3S+ and it's been perfectly reliable for years
    - Steltek 5mo ago
      My mk3s+ (circa 2020) had a bed sensor. It's still super reliable and I'm only upgrading it to a Core One L because of the upcoming INDX system. Prusa quality, ethics, and true multi-material (not multi-color) in a compact package? Yes please!
busterarm 5mo ago
> Mutli-color though is where Bambu has a good leg up. I'm excited for INDX but going to wait a year or so.
- cassianoleal 5mo ago
  I'm waiting for my Founders Edition. I'm confident it will work well, even if not perfectly at first.
darkteflon 5mo ago
Can anyone in the commentariat recommend a great, locally available adhesive in Japan? Vision Miner is import-only and pricey. I’ve been using glue-sticks but am ready to level up as I’m moving away from PLA.
- martin_a 5mo ago
  Can you get 3DLAC in Japan? That's what I'm using with great success. Otherwise maybe try some hair sprays, that worked in 2011, too... :-D
  - consp 5mo ago
    3DLAC is hairspray with a different label, you can smell it... I use it too though as it is the easiest high strength hairspray to get.
    - martin_a 5mo ago
      Yeah, I always thought that, especially after seeing that the producer is a beauty company... :-D
- vallassy 5mo ago
  Depending on your level of DIY-ness and willingness to handle powders, you could make some Super Goop. I've heard good things about it but haven't yet had enough bed adhesion issues to make it yet. https://github.com/MakerBogans/docs/wiki/Printer-goop https://github.com/MakerBogans/docs/wiki/Printer-goop
- faangguyindia 5mo ago
  I've used thinned out real PVA glue (not polyurethane) for years.
- lobsterthief 5mo ago
  High-hold hairspray will work wonders for you. I’ve been using it to print, including on glass, since 2014.
- 5mo ago

microtonal 5mo ago

After my initial Ender 3v2 (which was my entry point to 3D printing, but a terrible printer otherwise), we bought a Prusa even thought it was much more expensive than Bambu because we wanted to support a European company and because as a European company they are under the GDPR. It has been absolutely great and low-effort. I haven't needed it yet, but their printers seem to be focused on easy maintenance by their owners.

foxylad 5mo ago
Same, but the first printer was an Anet A8. Moving to a Prussa Mini was a breath of fresh air, going from 35% to 95% print success.

bdcravens 5mo ago

It may not have been a feature then, but you can run updated firmware and still keep it offline by using Developer Mode. https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-developer-mode https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/knowledge-sharing/enable-develo...

jchw 5mo ago
I don't trust it anymore. I'm using LAN mode today, I have little incentive to update. If I update to anything, it will certainly be third-party modified firmware.
- bdcravens 5mo ago
  The only one that I'm familiar with is https://github.com/X1Plus/X1Plus https://github.com/X1Plus/X1Plus
  - darkteflon 5mo ago
    Have been keeping an eye on this. Hoping they’ll add the A1 family at some point.
- nirav72 5mo ago
  I'm running my P2S in LAN mode. But I also blocked it on my router from connecting outward. Sure I can no longer use the mobile app. But BamBuddy solved that for me. It has a web UI that is mobile browser friendly.

offbynull 5mo ago

I'm also in the same boat of regret, but for other reasons. Their support team is beyond awful. I purchased an H2S AMS combo just shy of two months ago (mostly because I saw it being praised by HNers a while back) and found out recently that the AMS they've sent me is defective. It's been truly a bizarre experience trying to deal with customer support. They told me to disassemble the AMS and swap a couple of modules that they mailed me. I did, provided them evidence that I did, and provided evidence that it didn't fix the problem. Their response was to claim that I didn't actually swap the modules and that because of that my warranty no longer applies, and then they said they'd give me a free roll of filament for my troubles (lol). At that point I began the process of invoking the consumer protections afforded to me. Called my credit card company and opened a dispute, invoked Massachusetts law M.G.L. c. 93A, and I'm about to contact my AG. It's a shame they're going in such an anti-consumer direction, both with their gaslighting customer support and the lawfare against Orca.

BowBun 5mo ago
Just wanna say, I appreciate you going through the effort. Please share your story as it progresses!
ndr42 5mo ago
So "right to repair" is "duty to repair" now? /s
- herbst 5mo ago
  I was offered to return it or try to fix it myself. In the end the fix was even easier than initially thought and it's working great since. No idea if that's because I am in the EU market and not US. They did take their time to respond but otherwise service was ok.
  - wolvoleo 5mo ago
    Same here. When I needed them they were on the ball. Though I haven't had a difficult or complex problem yet.

iugtmkbdfil834 5mo ago

But.. the good news is that any future potential buyers ( like me ) know to avoid that particular vendor. The issue, as it appears to be common lately, is that the number of buyers gets smaller and smaller as regulatory frameworks get more and more onerous. Otoh, I am more than happy to lend a helping hand. This is probably as good of a fight as it gets.

wolvoleo 5mo ago

Meh. I use bambu and I am a maker but it's not a big thing in my opinion. I bought a bambu precisely because I don't want to mod the thing with a gazillion custom upgrades like I needed to do with my previous printers to make them work reliably. I just want to press print and... print. Bambu totally delivers there. They really commoditised 3D printing and brought the price down. And if you do want to go off the beaten track they have options. My hobby is not 3D printer tinkering. It's printing stuff to use. This is clearly what bambu market towards and they do the job really well. I know many people in the makerspace community that spend weeks tuning their perfect Klipper setup. Cool but I prefer spending those weeks perfecting my designs instead. It's hard to overstate the difference they made in out of the box capability especially for the price. And their spare parts are decently priced too. Now if they start locking down the consumables like other evil companies like 3D Systems and Da Vinci XYZ did then yes. Then they deserve all the blame they can get. The orcaslicer thing I don't know what to think about yet (I have to read up on it) but the discussion here was more about the local mode. Ps Bambu isn't the only brand I have. But I do like what they've done. It was exactly what I needed.

HowTheStoryEnds 5mo ago
Dude, the only reason you can be a maker is because of the many hours of work provided by the open source community. The very same one your support is trampling on since it's in favor of a company profiteering from them. All because you don't want to be inconvenienced.. Educate yourself on the issue and start having some respect.
- wolvoleo 5mo ago
  I'm not being inconvenienced? And the open source community is open source precisely to drive the state of the art further. Having respect for other makers doesn't necessarily mean agreeing on everything. I'm just giving the other side of the story. If you wish to choose another brand you're free to do so of course. Not all my printers are bambu, in fact my latest one isn't either.
  - HowTheStoryEnds 5mo ago

bsder 5mo ago

> my eyes are on Prusa should I want another printer any time soon for any reason. Have Prusa finally fixed their engineering? Prusa basically sitting inert on the engineering front is what allowed Bambu to leapfrog them. Bambu made real engineering improvements: linear slides, servomotor for feed, accelerometer tuning, etc. Has Prusa finally decided to compete again? A lot of us are willing to give a company more money for being open source, but the basic product can't be too significantly inferior. It looks like there is at least one linear slide on the Prusa Core One+ so that's a start...

MBCook 5mo ago
Bambu won with relentless free giveaways to every YouTuber on the planet, cheap prices, and a consumer friendly looking design. I don’t think they earned it. I suspect there is a huge number of people out there who bought them who don’t even know what else exists. They saw a YouTuber advertise one on a video making something and decided to buy that.
- laweijfmvo 5mo ago
  Prusa is equally guilty there, I think. Every time I see a Youtuber receiving multiple free Prusa printers, while I continue to save and delay on the high price of getting one myself, I curse them a bit more.
  - MBCook 5mo ago
    In the last two years I could easily count on one hand the number of Prusas I’ve seen given out. Yeah, it happens. Bambu is straight up sending them to everyone breathing. 3D printer people? Given Bambu. Tinkerers? Bambu. Lego channels? Yeah seriously Bambu. Way outside the traditional maker channels. I’m not saying no one should give out free printers. But Bambu is carpet bombing YouTube, and they require the videos be turned into Bambu ads to do it. Having to show it multiple times, talk about its great features multiple times, etc. i’ve never seen the script but I’ve seen enough videos have conspicuously similar elements promoting the printer to know it must a condition. The videos I’ve seen where people get a free XL mention that fact, maybe one other, but that’s about it. It’s not hammered on like Bambu seems to want.

duxup 5mo ago

I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu. I was lucky and they didn’t have any in stock when I wanted to buy… Now I’m nervous about buying one from anyone.

sho_hn 5mo ago
> I was almost just like you I got some recommendations from HN, all of them were for Bambu. Bambu has spent a ton of dough on paid advertising via YouTube shills (it is absolutely rampant in that scene - I like the channel Maker's Muse as a notable exception, who also has some funny videos up where he reads emails from various vendors trying to bribe or intimidate him in various ways), and many in the HN crows were happy to parrot their talking points to justify their purchases. A winning marketing strategy. To this day you end up encountering a lot of people who are under the impression Bambu printers somehow made 3D printing accessible or are the only ticket to a problem-free experience. And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development. To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did.
- imtringued 5mo ago
  You're rewriting history here because of something that you dislike that happened long after Bambu Labs became popular. In the beginning Bambu Labs came up with the X1C which is essentially a really good Core XY printer with an enclosure for $1500 that included a revolutionary AMS that no other manufacturer had. If you wanted a printer of similar quality, you would have had to build your own Voron for $1000 with the obvious caveat that you have to order the parts yourself and then assemble it. Then Bambu Lab releases the P1S, which is comparable to a Voron but cheaper and you don't have to assemble it. At that point Bambu Labs was no longer just a high end printer company with Apple aesthetics. Regular consumers could afford their printers. Then they came up with the A1 mini and the AMS Lite. They've started building a printer that is cheaper than an Ender 3, but has the same print quality as the higher end Bambu Lab printers and despite being a gantry design, much faster print speeds with low setup and maintenance. I personally got an A1 mini for $200. Compared to other Chinese competitors, their printers were both good and affordable. Prusa had good printers that were relatively expensive. Meanwhile if you bought an Ender 3, which was the community recommendation before Bambu Labs, you basically brought an unreliable low quality piece of garbage into your house that you constantly have to maintain when it breaks or upgrade features that should have been there out of the box. The abysmally bad Ender 3 gave outsiders the impression that most 3D printer enthusiasts treated the printer as the project rather than the things they make with the printer. Basically, the entire 3D printing community centered itself around a terrible overpriced 3D printer from a company that still produces garbage to this day. Meanwhile if you bought a rather expensive Bambu Labs printer you never had any issues to begin with. If the 3d printer community had centered around e.g. Sovol printers, this disconnect from reality probably have never happened. Then Bambu Labs came out with the A1 bed slinger and at that point they had a printer that was cheaper and better in every single aspect. The masks from the existing Chinese 3D printer companies peddling you garbage fell off. Suddenly they have X1C, P1S and A1 clones that are 90% as good as Bambu Labs printers. Like, every single manufacturer realized simultaneously that their printers were bad and that they could have sold you printers that weren't terrible. >And you know, the product might do that, the problem is the message that they're the only game in town, which has never been true and which they largely achieved on the back of work already done by others for them in software, designs and ecosystem development. You're assuming some marketing fantasy which isn't the case. Most Chinese printer manufacturers simply made terrible products before Bambu Labs. If you restrict yourself to Chinese manufacturers, then Prusa is out. Back in those days when you were buying a Chinese printer, they really were the only game in town. The thing about doing it on the back of others sounds stupid. There were hundreds of niche 3D printer companies that sold you unsupported products that barely worked. Obviously they didn't write their own software from scratch. They used existing software from the open source printer ecosystem. >To contrast this: You often hear this about Apple, that they didn't necessarily invent the stuff, but they did the last-mile integration really well. It's incomparable. Apple did far more work on their products than Bambu ever did Now you're getting things backwards. Bambi Lab's is a lot like Apple here, with the difference that they don't charge Apple level premiums. I'm wondering how you can take it for granted that they are doing the equivalent of selling a MacBook Pro at the price of a regular MacBook. Bambi Lab also came up with two AMS types before everyone else adopted multi filament printing in a mass consumer basis. Not to mention quality of life features like quick change nozzles. You shouldn't rewrite history just because you don't like a company. Without Bamboo Labs we would be stuck with Creality.

skhameneh 5mo ago

If you’re eyeing Prusa, that’ll probably be ideal. ...but it does look like Sovol is teasing an INDX alternative (I have a Sovol SV08, it’s a “good value” tinkerer printer based on the Voron) And if you really want “open”, there’s isn’t much better than a Voron in that aspect.

ornornor 5mo ago

Speaking about Prusa, my experience has been that they’re very condescending to users. Extremely basic features (like serial printing) are considered “nice to have”. Some tickets have remained open for over 6 years now and ignored by prusa: - https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/189 https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/189 (still open after 6+ years) - https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/283 https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy/issues/283 (took 3.5 years to acknowledge and fix)

aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
It is well-known that Prusa is rather slow and hesitant to implement new features in their firmware because they really want new features also to work on their very old printers if possible. And Prusa really wants to avoid introducing regressions with new firmware versions (even though they are not perfect regarding this). Thus, because of this basically promise by Prusa, the pace with which new features become available is much slower. Prusa is for people who really want their 3D printers supported for a very long time.
- ornornor 5mo ago
  These aren't new features, they're basic, widely available, standard features that Prusa removed and are now taking their time (6 years and counting) to add back in…

cookiengineer 5mo ago

Same experience. Wanted to get an X1C after I had saved enough, then I was lucky enough to be able to send it back within the 2 weeks time frame. I live in the EU so I was able to demand the refund. Now I am rebuilding my old Ender 3 with Openbuilds parts into a CoreXY setup, all metal hotend, sturdier metal frame, and the newer RAMPS board with a raspberry pi and klipper setup. Don't know enough about the multi tool related things, but maybe I am gonna focus on that afterwards. I am having tons of fun while doing so, it has been quite a while since I rebuilt my Anet A8 into an AM8 with a custom Marlin firmware back then.

jjkaczor 5mo ago

I was lucky enough to have seen the initial controversy and install the X1Plus firmware on my X1C about 2-weeks before lockdown. It has worked flawlessly with OrcaSlicer ever since. For monitoring when I am away from my office, I setup VPN, HomeAssistant and could do it from my computer - but there was also a "Bambu Companion" app released pretty quickly in that timeframe (there are probably others now) which allowed my to replace the "Bambu Handy" functionality on my phone. So - of course, I swore I would not buy another Bambu. But, when looking at the various pricing and other aspects of competitors - about a month ago I did end-up buying an H2C with double-AMS and an HT - mainly to reduce filament waste, have a larger build volume, be able to use multi-materials for support "quickly" and have active chamber heating for more "engineering" type filaments. Don't believe the hype about the chamber filter though - I have found with ABS, you still need external exhaust or air filtering as even though the chamber "closes" and recycles via the filter, you still have the "poop chute" venting fumes... ... and of course... even if I wanted to switch to LAN-mode, unfortunately OrcaSlicer does not yet support the H2C... perhaps it never will unfortunately...

natewrench 5mo ago

the problem is who owns the handshake, even if the slicer is under the agpl license i think this could cause a rewrite because this is a service level tivoization you cant use the software without the handshake, gplv1 allowed software based tivoization, gplv2 allowed hardware based tivoization, gplv3/agpl allows service based tivoization which mean theres a loophole looking to be closed all over again because if i use agpl web app from a public site, i have the right to get the code if i want to fork that code i have to violate the handshake