7 ms·

> where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest To say that "the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest"

by giwook 5mo ago

> where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest To say that "the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest" by using Coke as an example is a significant oversimplification and is cherry picking examples to prove a point. The richest consumers buy plenty of consumer goods that the poorest cannot even dream of buying or even renting. If there was a truffle-infused Coke with edible 24k gold flakes that cost 10x as much (and actually tasted good) you can be sure pretty much only the richest consumers would be drinking it, and that everyone who couldn't afford it would be doing everything in their power to keep up with the Joneses. What percentage of "the poorest" own their own home or go on international trips more than once a year let alone owning multiple homes, luxury cars, and private jets?

legitster 5mo ago
Andy Warhol's quote is about aspiration and perceived attainment. The average person is not aspiring to drink a gold flake truffle-infused Coke. The implication is the lack of a rigorous class hierarchy in America. Not that the rich don't live different lifestyles or consume more. But that niche luxury products were considered effete and un-American. (Andy Warhol was almost certainly also being ironic - that the richest people in America publicly shared the same trashy taste as average Americans). The closest analogue today might be an iPhone. Rich or poor, if you want the "best" phone you have an iPhone. Sure, there are gaudier and more expensive phones out there. But you're essentially using the same product as the richest Americans.
- giwook 5mo ago
  Fair point. What about cars or houses?
  - shaftway 5mo ago
    That fancy Lamborghini is going to be sitting in the same traffic as my Honda.
    - skeeter2020 5mo ago
      no - it will be getting very expensive servicing while you're enjoying 200K+ trouble-free miles
      - Our_Benefactors 5mo ago
        Which is of course entirely besides the point. While it’s receiving service the owner will be in their Honda accord (they drive it daily), but they will always have the top trim and will probably get a new one once it’s out of warranty and needs its first “real entropy” repair. Being rich is better than being poor. The Warhol quote has nothing to do with that fact.
        wing-_-nuts 5mo ago
        >Being rich is better than being poor. As someone who started out very poor, and is now ~ 30x above that. I strongly subscribe to the idea that happiness from income is very logarithmic. The first 2-3x income was life changing. I'm talking going from eating pasta, rice and beans for most meals to fresh fruit and veg, lean cuts of meat. From renting a room in a noisy apartment with 4 other people to having my own place that was both safe and quiet. My reading list was suddenly more constrained by time instead of price or library backlog. I suppose it's down to my starting position, a content disposition and a boring lack of imagination, but my expenses have now ~ 5x'd what they were when I was on the strugglebus, but still very modest, and I honestly can't identify any spending that would make my life better or make me happier long term.
        zeroonetwothree 5mo ago
        It’s very true. When I got my first apartment on my own I was living on $3000/month (today’s dollars adjusted for inflation). Now I live on $20k and I can’t say there’s many things better about my day to day. I seem to spend a lot on things that don’t matter that much :(
        FartinMowler 5mo ago
  - Petersipoi 5mo ago
    > no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking Doesn't the fact that the original quote literally acknowledges "bums on the corner" imply that he wasn't referring to housing at all?
    - trollbridge 5mo ago
      I have found the Coke machines at Costco to always have a perfect mixture.
      - throwway120385 5mo ago
        “If you raise (the price of the) effing hot dog, I will kill you”
      - scottyah 5mo ago
        In n Out is my favorite Coke. I think Costco and Chick Fil A are tied despite being pretty different.
  - queuebert 5mo ago
    A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now. Even the cheapest cars can have giant screens and climate control. I don't think they are equal to a Rolls Royce, but extreme luxury has greater diminishing returns now than at any point in history. Where I live pretty much all new houses are being built with granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Whether that's a good thing is a whole other topic ...
    - hn_acc1 5mo ago
      >A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now. Claims presented without evidence. My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened. (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher. My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving. Neither of those cars are "niche".
      - Kirby64 5mo ago
        > My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened. Slightly modified is doing some heavy lifting there. No 2005 Subaru wagon in stock config is anywhere close to beating a Model 3. > (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher. Pretty much irrelevant, because they’re still blisteringly fast up to 60 which is where most of the acceleration happens in day to day. Nobody really cares about 60-80 or 60-100. > My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving. What Kia is that? Even the stinger GT (which is definitely a niche car) is slower than a regular dual motor model 3.
        sfn42 5mo ago
        Another reason it's irrelevant is you just don't need the accel. Flooring a Tesla is fun once or twice, but if you floor it every chance you get I don't want to be your passenger. It's neither comfortable nor safe.
  - fragmede 5mo ago
    The real question is what about toilets. You'd think they're all the same, but a $700 Toto bidet with a heated seat that cleans your butthole with warm water is a better experience than using toilet paper.
    - com2kid 5mo ago
      My $200 home depot bidet does the same. Toto survives by brand name reco only nowadays.
      - scottyah 5mo ago
        That and all the work they do for AI semiconductors.
  - bayindirh 5mo ago
    Personally I don't envy an "high-end" car (RR, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.), or a big mansion which needs a horde of people to run. I personally developed a feeling for things which are at the edge of "diminishing returns" curve. I get the things which are high-end enough, but not in the "pay 3x more to get 1% more" region.
    - scottyah 5mo ago
      I agree, but will say that having a well-built house in a great area is extremely expensive, especially if you happen to like walkable cities along the southern California coast.
      - bayindirh 5mo ago
        A well built house doesn't have to be big, needs multiple staff on payroll, or come with a pool. Buying high quality things is a thing, but buying things just because they are high end and flashy is something else. If I failed to convey what I tried to say in my first comment, let me give another examples. Personally, I'll pay pretty penny for a bass guitar, if its build quality and features is worth it, not because of hype or it's a signature model of someone else's. I'll buy a high end computer or a car with all (meaningful) options installed, not because I want to show off but I'll need the features or processing power. I buy high end audio gear (for listening or recording), not because to brag about it but to use it. And when I buy these things, I use them until they run out of steam, not until they're out of fashion.
  - stbede 5mo ago
    I probably have a better house in Utah than many Silicon Valley CEOs have in the Bay Area, but they have better weather.
msla 5mo ago
It's close to true about personal computers. The poorest can't afford Apple computers, but you don't need to be that rich to buy Apple hardware and what's up from that in terms of mainstream status? Nothing, as far as I can see. Specific groups might want a Framework laptop or System76, but those brands are invisible to most people, including, it seems, most rich people. (And for servers and other business machines, well, other criteria apply, but owning something in the Top500 has to count for something in terms of prestige.)
mc32 5mo ago
There was a time when some people were paying “10x” the price of regular water for “raw” water. It was stupid but there is little chance your average Jane and Joe on the street aspired to buy that water. Of anything it was a the butt of some of their jokes.
blipvert 5mo ago
Hey! The president eats BigMacs dontcha know! Admittedly that’s because he’s an overgrown child, but what the hey.
encrypted_bird 5mo ago
> Or go on international trips more than once a year Or, hell, go on trips period, let alone once a year. I went a couple states over last September to visit a friend and it damn near broke my wallet. I didn't even fly either. Just drove.

by giwook 5mo ago

legitster 5mo ago

Andy Warhol's quote is about aspiration and perceived attainment. The average person is not aspiring to drink a gold flake truffle-infused Coke. The implication is the lack of a rigorous class hierarchy in America. Not that the rich don't live different lifestyles or consume more. But that niche luxury products were considered effete and un-American. (Andy Warhol was almost certainly also being ironic - that the richest people in America publicly shared the same trashy taste as average Americans). The closest analogue today might be an iPhone. Rich or poor, if you want the "best" phone you have an iPhone. Sure, there are gaudier and more expensive phones out there. But you're essentially using the same product as the richest Americans.

giwook 5mo ago
Fair point. What about cars or houses?
- shaftway 5mo ago
  That fancy Lamborghini is going to be sitting in the same traffic as my Honda.
  - skeeter2020 5mo ago
    no - it will be getting very expensive servicing while you're enjoying 200K+ trouble-free miles
    - Our_Benefactors 5mo ago
      Which is of course entirely besides the point. While it’s receiving service the owner will be in their Honda accord (they drive it daily), but they will always have the top trim and will probably get a new one once it’s out of warranty and needs its first “real entropy” repair. Being rich is better than being poor. The Warhol quote has nothing to do with that fact.
      - wing-_-nuts 5mo ago
        >Being rich is better than being poor. As someone who started out very poor, and is now ~ 30x above that. I strongly subscribe to the idea that happiness from income is very logarithmic. The first 2-3x income was life changing. I'm talking going from eating pasta, rice and beans for most meals to fresh fruit and veg, lean cuts of meat. From renting a room in a noisy apartment with 4 other people to having my own place that was both safe and quiet. My reading list was suddenly more constrained by time instead of price or library backlog. I suppose it's down to my starting position, a content disposition and a boring lack of imagination, but my expenses have now ~ 5x'd what they were when I was on the strugglebus, but still very modest, and I honestly can't identify any spending that would make my life better or make me happier long term.
        zeroonetwothree 5mo ago
        It’s very true. When I got my first apartment on my own I was living on $3000/month (today’s dollars adjusted for inflation). Now I live on $20k and I can’t say there’s many things better about my day to day. I seem to spend a lot on things that don’t matter that much :(
      - FartinMowler 5mo ago
- Petersipoi 5mo ago
  > no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking Doesn't the fact that the original quote literally acknowledges "bums on the corner" imply that he wasn't referring to housing at all?
  - trollbridge 5mo ago
    I have found the Coke machines at Costco to always have a perfect mixture.
    - throwway120385 5mo ago
      “If you raise (the price of the) effing hot dog, I will kill you”
    - scottyah 5mo ago
      In n Out is my favorite Coke. I think Costco and Chick Fil A are tied despite being pretty different.
- queuebert 5mo ago
  A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now. Even the cheapest cars can have giant screens and climate control. I don't think they are equal to a Rolls Royce, but extreme luxury has greater diminishing returns now than at any point in history. Where I live pretty much all new houses are being built with granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Whether that's a good thing is a whole other topic ...
  - hn_acc1 5mo ago
    >A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now. Claims presented without evidence. My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened. (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher. My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving. Neither of those cars are "niche".
    - Kirby64 5mo ago
      > My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened. Slightly modified is doing some heavy lifting there. No 2005 Subaru wagon in stock config is anywhere close to beating a Model 3. > (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher. Pretty much irrelevant, because they’re still blisteringly fast up to 60 which is where most of the acceleration happens in day to day. Nobody really cares about 60-80 or 60-100. > My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving. What Kia is that? Even the stinger GT (which is definitely a niche car) is slower than a regular dual motor model 3.
      - sfn42 5mo ago
        Another reason it's irrelevant is you just don't need the accel. Flooring a Tesla is fun once or twice, but if you floor it every chance you get I don't want to be your passenger. It's neither comfortable nor safe.
- fragmede 5mo ago
  The real question is what about toilets. You'd think they're all the same, but a $700 Toto bidet with a heated seat that cleans your butthole with warm water is a better experience than using toilet paper.
  - com2kid 5mo ago
    My $200 home depot bidet does the same. Toto survives by brand name reco only nowadays.
    - scottyah 5mo ago
      That and all the work they do for AI semiconductors.
- bayindirh 5mo ago
  Personally I don't envy an "high-end" car (RR, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.), or a big mansion which needs a horde of people to run. I personally developed a feeling for things which are at the edge of "diminishing returns" curve. I get the things which are high-end enough, but not in the "pay 3x more to get 1% more" region.
  - scottyah 5mo ago
    I agree, but will say that having a well-built house in a great area is extremely expensive, especially if you happen to like walkable cities along the southern California coast.
    - bayindirh 5mo ago
      A well built house doesn't have to be big, needs multiple staff on payroll, or come with a pool. Buying high quality things is a thing, but buying things just because they are high end and flashy is something else. If I failed to convey what I tried to say in my first comment, let me give another examples. Personally, I'll pay pretty penny for a bass guitar, if its build quality and features is worth it, not because of hype or it's a signature model of someone else's. I'll buy a high end computer or a car with all (meaningful) options installed, not because I want to show off but I'll need the features or processing power. I buy high end audio gear (for listening or recording), not because to brag about it but to use it. And when I buy these things, I use them until they run out of steam, not until they're out of fashion.
- stbede 5mo ago
  I probably have a better house in Utah than many Silicon Valley CEOs have in the Bay Area, but they have better weather.

msla 5mo ago

It's close to true about personal computers. The poorest can't afford Apple computers, but you don't need to be that rich to buy Apple hardware and what's up from that in terms of mainstream status? Nothing, as far as I can see. Specific groups might want a Framework laptop or System76, but those brands are invisible to most people, including, it seems, most rich people. (And for servers and other business machines, well, other criteria apply, but owning something in the Top500 has to count for something in terms of prestige.)

mc32 5mo ago

There was a time when some people were paying “10x” the price of regular water for “raw” water. It was stupid but there is little chance your average Jane and Joe on the street aspired to buy that water. Of anything it was a the butt of some of their jokes.

blipvert 5mo ago

Hey! The president eats BigMacs dontcha know! Admittedly that’s because he’s an overgrown child, but what the hey.

encrypted_bird 5mo ago

> Or go on international trips more than once a year Or, hell, go on trips period, let alone once a year. I went a couple states over last September to visit a friend and it damn near broke my wallet. I didn't even fly either. Just drove.