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Illegal is a strong term here. While the wiki link you included indicates there might be some permitting nuances, I've seen nothing claiming the power is "illeg

Illegal is a strong term here. While the wiki link you included indicates there might be some permitting nuances, I've seen nothing claiming the power is "illegal."

fancyfredbot 5mo ago
The ethics are questionable, legal or not. Anthropic are tarnishing their image again here. Not sure how much it hurts then compared to blocking openclaw though.
- port11 5mo ago
  I find the ethics of power generation, resource use, and pollution in a world struggling with climate change to be more of a challenge than whether a few people can run some software. And that’s coming from a Claude user that’s getting tired of their shenanigans.
- DonsDiscountGas 5mo ago
  I don't quite understand the business logic behind "blocking" openclaw (you can still use it at API rates) but I never saw how this was unethical. Anthropic has no ethical obligation to support other people's software
  - butlike 5mo ago
    I don't get it. On the one hand we had Steve Jobs saying "No App Store!" and everyone getting up in arms, then here we have "no obligation to have Anthropic support other people's software," and that being OK. So which is it? Or does the answer change daily depending on what makes us feel good?
    - DonsDiscountGas 5mo ago
      I'm not even sure what you're talking about. The answer changes depending on who you talk to because different people have different opinions
  - fancyfredbot 5mo ago
    Blocking openclaw made everyone realise that what anthropic giveth, anthropic can take away. It is similar to the xAI gas turbines in that it tarnished their image - at least amongst those naive people who saw them as a plucky startup rather than a profit seeking corporation who don't like competition. I agree with you that the ethics are very different.
Thrymr 5mo ago
xAI removed its illegal gas turbines and obtained permits for the others only after being sued by the Southern Environmental Law Center. They then built another unpermitted site (Colossus 2) across the state line in Mississippi, and they are being sued again. [0] "The company began operations at its first site, Colossus 1, in June of 2024 and used as many as 35 unpermitted gas turbines to power the facility. Despite receiving intense public pushback over the use of illegal turbines and the lack of public input and transparency around Colossus 1, xAI officials said it planned on “copying and pasting” its unlawful turbine strategy to power Colossus 2." "xAI removed its unpermitted turbines at the Colossus 1 data center after SELC, on behalf of the NAACP, sent a notice of intent to sue under the Clean Air Act. The company obtained permits for its remaining 15 turbines." [0] https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-to-power-its-data-center/ https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...
- everfrustrated 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- BrianGragg 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Thrymr 5mo ago
    Public power utilities get permits for their operations. xAI tried to get around permitting regulations and environmental laws by claiming the generators were temporary, got sued [0], and even the Trump administration's EPA ruled against them [1]. They are also now trying to do it again in another state with Colossus 2 [2]. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/18/xai-is-facing-a-lawsuit-for-operating-over-400-mw-of-gas-turbines-without-permits/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/18/xai-is-facing-a-lawsuit-fo... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk-xai-datacenter-memphis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk... [2] https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-to-power-its-data-center/ https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...
  - avianlyric 5mo ago
breadsniffer 5mo ago
from perplexity deep research: "Colossus‑related gas‑turbine power plants have been run in ways alleged to violate the Clean Air Act, in already over‑polluted Black and low‑income communities near Memphis, and Anthropic has now become the main user of that infrastructure." sources: https://www.tba.org/?pg=Hastings2025AIX https://www.tba.org/?pg=Hastings2025AIX (Tech, Toxins, and Memphis: Evaluating the Environmental Footprint of the xAI Facility)
- lostmsu 5mo ago
  Any specifics? What are they doing and what statutes are allegedly being violated?
  - SirSavary 5mo ago
    Emphasis my own: > "The xAI facility has already deployed *nearly 20 gas turbines, including four large units with a combined capacity of 100MW*, to power its AI system Grok... There are plans to add *15 more gas turbines between June 2025 and June 2030*, and the turbine application projects *annual emissions of around 11.51 tons of hazardous air pollutants*." > "it is currently *running gas turbines without the necessary permits from the Shelby County Health Department*" > "findings from the Southern Environmental Law Center indicate that the facility has 'installed' gas turbines. This suggests that new industrial systems are in place and that *xAI is obligated to comply with the new NSPS* [New Source Performance Standards] *to avoid violating the Clean Air Act*" > "NSPS are authorized under *Section 211 of the Clean Air Act*... All new sources must comply with the *Best System of Emission Reduction (BSER)*, which mandates the use of state-of-the-art technology to minimize air pollutants." > "there is a history of Elon Musk's companies, such as *SpaceX and the Boring Company, being fined thousands of dollars for violating environmental law* to circumvent regulation"
    - lostmsu 5mo ago
      So they haven't gotten permits, but why? Why where the permits denied? Just the other day we had news that some Californian environment protection agency denied permits for SpaceX for political reasons as opposed to following objective rules, as ruled by a judge. So the fact that some permits were not issued doesn't tell me anything.

Illegal is a strong term here. While the wiki link you included indicates there might be some permitting nuances, I've seen nothing claiming the power is "illegal."

fancyfredbot 5mo ago

The ethics are questionable, legal or not. Anthropic are tarnishing their image again here. Not sure how much it hurts then compared to blocking openclaw though.

port11 5mo ago
I find the ethics of power generation, resource use, and pollution in a world struggling with climate change to be more of a challenge than whether a few people can run some software. And that’s coming from a Claude user that’s getting tired of their shenanigans.
DonsDiscountGas 5mo ago
I don't quite understand the business logic behind "blocking" openclaw (you can still use it at API rates) but I never saw how this was unethical. Anthropic has no ethical obligation to support other people's software
- butlike 5mo ago
  I don't get it. On the one hand we had Steve Jobs saying "No App Store!" and everyone getting up in arms, then here we have "no obligation to have Anthropic support other people's software," and that being OK. So which is it? Or does the answer change daily depending on what makes us feel good?
  - DonsDiscountGas 5mo ago
    I'm not even sure what you're talking about. The answer changes depending on who you talk to because different people have different opinions
- fancyfredbot 5mo ago
  Blocking openclaw made everyone realise that what anthropic giveth, anthropic can take away. It is similar to the xAI gas turbines in that it tarnished their image - at least amongst those naive people who saw them as a plucky startup rather than a profit seeking corporation who don't like competition. I agree with you that the ethics are very different.

Thrymr 5mo ago

xAI removed its illegal gas turbines and obtained permits for the others only after being sued by the Southern Environmental Law Center. They then built another unpermitted site (Colossus 2) across the state line in Mississippi, and they are being sued again. [0] "The company began operations at its first site, Colossus 1, in June of 2024 and used as many as 35 unpermitted gas turbines to power the facility. Despite receiving intense public pushback over the use of illegal turbines and the lack of public input and transparency around Colossus 1, xAI officials said it planned on “copying and pasting” its unlawful turbine strategy to power Colossus 2." "xAI removed its unpermitted turbines at the Colossus 1 data center after SELC, on behalf of the NAACP, sent a notice of intent to sue under the Clean Air Act. The company obtained permits for its remaining 15 turbines." [0] https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-to-power-its-data-center/ https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...

everfrustrated 5mo ago
[flagged]
BrianGragg 5mo ago
[flagged]
- Thrymr 5mo ago
  Public power utilities get permits for their operations. xAI tried to get around permitting regulations and environmental laws by claiming the generators were temporary, got sued [0], and even the Trump administration's EPA ruled against them [1]. They are also now trying to do it again in another state with Colossus 2 [2]. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/18/xai-is-facing-a-lawsuit-for-operating-over-400-mw-of-gas-turbines-without-permits/ https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/18/xai-is-facing-a-lawsuit-fo... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk-xai-datacenter-memphis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk... [2] https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-to-power-its-data-center/ https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...
- avianlyric 5mo ago

breadsniffer 5mo ago

from perplexity deep research: "Colossus‑related gas‑turbine power plants have been run in ways alleged to violate the Clean Air Act, in already over‑polluted Black and low‑income communities near Memphis, and Anthropic has now become the main user of that infrastructure." sources: https://www.tba.org/?pg=Hastings2025AIX https://www.tba.org/?pg=Hastings2025AIX (Tech, Toxins, and Memphis: Evaluating the Environmental Footprint of the xAI Facility)

lostmsu 5mo ago
Any specifics? What are they doing and what statutes are allegedly being violated?
- SirSavary 5mo ago
  Emphasis my own: > "The xAI facility has already deployed *nearly 20 gas turbines, including four large units with a combined capacity of 100MW*, to power its AI system Grok... There are plans to add *15 more gas turbines between June 2025 and June 2030*, and the turbine application projects *annual emissions of around 11.51 tons of hazardous air pollutants*." > "it is currently *running gas turbines without the necessary permits from the Shelby County Health Department*" > "findings from the Southern Environmental Law Center indicate that the facility has 'installed' gas turbines. This suggests that new industrial systems are in place and that *xAI is obligated to comply with the new NSPS* [New Source Performance Standards] *to avoid violating the Clean Air Act*" > "NSPS are authorized under *Section 211 of the Clean Air Act*... All new sources must comply with the *Best System of Emission Reduction (BSER)*, which mandates the use of state-of-the-art technology to minimize air pollutants." > "there is a history of Elon Musk's companies, such as *SpaceX and the Boring Company, being fined thousands of dollars for violating environmental law* to circumvent regulation"
  - lostmsu 5mo ago
    So they haven't gotten permits, but why? Why where the permits denied? Just the other day we had news that some Californian environment protection agency denied permits for SpaceX for political reasons as opposed to following objective rules, as ruled by a judge. So the fact that some permits were not issued doesn't tell me anything.