8 ms·
I am so confused by the categorisation of cars: BEV, HEV, PHEV and so on. I think the industry insiders who write some of these articles don't realise how hard
by bloak 5mo ago
I am so confused by the categorisation of cars: BEV, HEV, PHEV and so on. I think the industry insiders who write some of these articles don't realise how hard it is for some of their readers to keep track.
- LeoPanthera 5mo agoIgnore the "EV" part. B = Battery H = Hybrid PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home)
- rsynnott 5mo ago> Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home And, in practice, the battery tends to be much, much bigger. Some PHEVs are basically mediocre-range electric cars which happen to have a petrol generator.
- moepstar 5mo agoWhich ones? A colleague drives a BMW 3something hybrid and as far as i know has a 14kWh battery.. Thats good for about a 100km, but i very much wouldn't consider that a "fully" electric car by any means (edit: did you edit your post? couldve sworn you said "fully electric" instead of "mediocre range"?)... Also, what most people don't realize: if you're only (or mostly) driving it electric, you're putting many more cycles onto that tiny battery. ...which usually costs as much as a "regular" EV battery, x times the size. https://evclinic.eu/2024/09/05/bmw-hybrid-repeated-battery-failure/ https://evclinic.eu/2024/09/05/bmw-hybrid-repeated-battery-f... for example...
- slaw 5mo ago2026 Denza D9 has 66.48 kWh plug-in hybrid battery pack https://carnewschina.com/2026/05/01/byd-deploys-new-heyuan-hybrid-platform-enabling-larger-batteries-in-denza-d9-mpv/ https://carnewschina.com/2026/05/01/byd-deploys-new-heyuan-h...
- alistairSH 5mo agoThe latest Honda Civic Hybrid (and its Prelude cousin). The ICE is a generator under most use cases - it's decoupled from the drivetrain most of the time. That said, the battery capacity isn't great - you aren't going to complete many trips out of your immediate neighborhood on EV power alone.
- jeffbee 5mo agoThat's because hybrids aren't designed to do so. The battery is small in terms of both energy and power. Sometimes, if the car is initially pointed the right way, you could complete a very short downhill trip at low speeds without the engine starting. But hybrids are designed to run the engine often. The batteries are sized to capture approximately the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle when stopping, and discharge the same energy when starting to move again, and that's it. It's a great system, they all get 45+ MPG.
- numpad0 5mo agoI wouldn't be sure if that's often the case, most PHEVs are just minor upgrades over existing hybrids. The electric motors on most hybrids, except the Nissan system, tend to only cover zero to city speeds. They need the gas engine connected to handle highway and ramp situations.
- jeffbee 5mo agoThis is not true. Popular PHEVs like the Prius Prime can go any speed you like on batteries.
- loudmax 5mo agoYes, my Prius Prime handles highway speeds perfectly fine on battery. In fact, the acceleration is great in pure EV mode. It just doesn't have much range: only about 25 miles on my 2018 model. Newer models advertise up to 44 miles on EV.
- jeffbee 5mo agoSure, that's the obvious downside of them. But in the role where they spend ~10h slowly charging overnight from a standard plug, about 25-45 miles is all you'd expect to enjoy in a steady state. I had a PHEV Honda and I put 20 gallons of fuel in it over 6 years. The system works in the niche for which it was designed.
- dalyons 5mo agoIt is true. most are much worse at being EVs than the toyota prime models. Toyotas were the top of the euro data on real world EV-only use. Every other manufacturer ranges from worse to hilariously worse. Toyotas are not over half of sales, so therefore "most" applies.
- jeffbee 5mo agoYou're making this outlandish claim so it is on you to name any currently or recently-marketed PHEV that can't reach highway speeds in EV mode, and to demonstrate that this constitutes "most" of the market or installed base.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- Sohcahtoa82 5mo agoIn theory, a PHEV is the perfect middle ground for someone that wants to drive electric but has major range anxiety about road trips. Something with a 60 mile electric range will likely satisfy all of their day-to-day driving. The generator means they don't have to charge though, so they can still take road trips without worrying about electric range. In practice though, they're somewhat impractical. You still need an entire ICE drivetrain AND a moderately sized battery and electric motor, driving the price up.
- mschild 5mo agoNot only somewhat impractical. Most people don't end up charging their battery because it still has an ICE so why bother? So now they have the worst of both worlds. Complex ICE machinery that needs regular service and heavy battery that doesn't end up being used.
- londons_explore 5mo agoStill gives decent efficiency improvements. You can always run the ICE at most efficient RPM. Never need to idle it, etc. You can also have a much smaller engine for a much bigger car, since you only need to cover average not peak power usage. You also in most designs eliminate the gearbox.
- mrob 5mo agoOnly true for a plug-in hybrid with a series drivechain (a.k.a. "extended range electric vehicle"). The more common type has two parallel drivechains linked with clutches, so you still have all the drawbacks of a conventional internal combustion engine drivechain when you're using it.
- appointment 5mo agoThis is something people say, but in practice the Toyota Prius is still a very reliable car.
- 5mo ago
- WarmWash 5mo ago...and apparently most owners never plug them in, so people just burn expensive fuel to charge their battery, while offering little or no savings over a hybrid or just the gas version.
- dalyons 5mo agoIts time to call a spade a spade - the bulk of the PHEV category sold to date (with a few exceptions like toyota) has been an emissions scam, designed to skirt EU fleet emission laws. In practice, most are mediocre range, low-speed only evs that effectively no one bothers to charge regularly because its impractical and annoying. The manufactures claim 80% reductions in emissions, and use those credits to allow them to sell more gas cars in the EU market. But real world emission reduction is 20%. They know this, they've known for years. Its a scam. https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-in-hybrids-use-over-300-more-fuel-than-claimed/ https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-... Some newer toyotas, newer BMWs and the coming EREVs will actually be able to be electric cars most of the time, and might live up closer to the claims. Doesnt change the fact the category has been mostly fraud until now.
- appointment 5mo agoTo be fair, running electric only at slow speeds is still good, because it's slow, stop-and-go driving that benefits the most from electric.
- dalyons 5mo agoexcept, as the data shows, thats not enough to make much emissions difference.
- bluGill 5mo agoI find that strange just looking at my current PHEV the engine now is at 75,000 miles or what my previous one was at only 30,000 miles. Most trips we barely use the intent if we use it at all, but every once in a while we do go on the long road trips. Plus, they are great for Americans who normally don't do those long trips, but they don't get rained to anxiety or any other issues with charging.
- dalyons 5mo ago1. you are you and your data and your use. I believe you, but thats not useful compared to the real world data from "981,035 vehicles across Europe". 2. i suspect but i have no way to prove... the PHEVs sold in america tended to be way better EVs - there's no similar total fleet emissions laws so no incentive to subsidize shitty/fraudulent PHEVs in the US.
- iso1631 5mo ago> PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home) Surely that's the "same as a battery but you can use petrol on long journeys" The only energy input for a "hybrid" is from petrol. It's slightly more efficient. A Toyota Yaris 1.5 hubrid gets about 65mpg rather than the 45mpg on a Skoda Kamiq https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/kamiq-2023 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/kamiq-2023 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-cross-2021 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-cross-2021
- bluGill 5mo agoDepends on how you use it. Some never plug in. Some always do. I save a ton of money without worrying about range since there is always gas when I make a roadtrip
- swiftcoder 5mo ago> Surely that's the "same as a battery but you can use petrol on long journeys" They put tiny batteries in a lot of plug-in hybrids. Unless you live very close to work, you’ll struggle to use it as primarily an EV
- vkou 5mo agoCommuter[1] PHEVs start at 30 miles EV range. Which is ~enough to cover the vast majority of commutes, and the majority of US commutes. Keep in mind that even if 20% of your commute is done on petrol, the other 80% isn't. --- [1] Yes, there are PHEVs with shorter ranges, but those tend to be weird luxury models that for some compliance reason have a battery strapped to them.
- dalyons 5mo agothe short ranges make them impractical and annoying to charge all the time, so people just dont in the real world https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
- Johnny555 5mo ago> PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home) You can, but in practice most people don't. And I can understand why -- it's inconvenient to have to plug in after every short trip, and the short electric range of most PHEV's means you do have to plug in after every short trip. I plug in my EV around once a week, and it's more convenient than going to the gas station, but I'm not sure I'd want to have to plug it in every time I come home from even a short trip to the supermarket.
- wffurr 5mo agoI plug in my EV almost every time I get home. The charger is hanging right next to my driver door in my driveway.
- bot403 5mo agoI own an EV. If I had a phev I'd sure love to plug it in rather than pay more for gas and have to go to the station.
- bluGill 5mo agoThat is why I setup our PHEV plug to be right next to the door, we park, grab the plug and put it in. That is at most 2 extra steps.
- traderj0e 5mo agoSeems like PHEV can mean it only goes 15-30mi on a charge. Realistically how many people are actually plugging those in?
- londons_explore 5mo agoThey vary widely. Some have 1 mile (and the plug is therefore fairly pointless and usually just to qualify for some subsidy), whilst others do 200 miles and are effectively full EV's with a petrol generator to travel further.
- traderj0e 5mo agoYeah 1-5mi EV seems like pure scam marketing that should be illegal
- londons_explore 5mo agoIt still allows regen braking down a hill or at traffic lights in town, so you get a decent efficiency gain. It also gives you a bit more horsepower when overtaking (depending on design). Or an hour of running the AC without belching smoke. Considering the battery and motors for these tiny EV's is only 100 lbs or so, it is probably still worth having.
- traderj0e 5mo agoYeah I'm not saying it's useless, it just shouldn't be marketed as an EV when you basically need to burn gas to drive it.
- i_dursun 5mo agoMine does about 40 miles during summer and 23 miles during winter. Given that my trips are within 25-35 miles range, I charge it daily. It’s at 9.5k miles and I filled up the tank about 7-8 times in 2 years. Rest was all electric.
- 5mo ago
- xnx 5mo agoDon't forget EREV.
- varispeed 5mo agoThere is also MHEV
- codedokode 5mo ago"Must heve"?
- ChrisMarshallNY 5mo ago"Mild Hybrid". Slight boost. I don't know of any on the market, but I'm sure they're there.
- rjsw 5mo agoFord Puma [1] is available as a mild hybrid. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Puma_(crossover) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Puma_(crossover)
- twic 5mo agoThere's a mild hybrid Qashqai. A friend of mine hired one and drove it into a bus.
- lostlogin 5mo agoThis thread is some deadpan comedy gold.
- alexfoo 5mo agoI've driven one. Zipcar UK (RIP!) had a few Fiat 500 Hybrids and I ended up with one once when every other nearby Zipcar was booked and I had a last minute need for a car. Given they are a relatively gutless car to begin with (1 litre 3 cylinder 70hp tinpot engine) I did wonder what the zigzag/lightning icon was on the dash so I googled it. Turns out the system uses a 11Ah lithium battery that lives under the driver/passenger seat that charges through regenerative braking. It gives a small boost during acceleration (mostly at low speeds so it's more for stop-start urban driving), I think it's not much more than a glorified belt around the crankshaft giving a few extra hp. No appreciable benefit to it that I could feel, but if it's helping us burn fewer dinosaurs then that's all good. (It's still a car but much better than a massive wankpanzer.)
- sheept 5mo agoTo be fair, the article is written on a website for the auto industry, so it's reasonable for them to assume their target audience is familiar with these terms. I argue the onus is on OP for explaining these since they're sharing it to a different audience than it was written for.
- pastudan 5mo agoDon’t forget PZEV (Partial Zero-Emissions Vehicle) which isn’t even an EV at all!
- andruby 5mo agoWhat horrible acronym/concept are those. It seems to be a US thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_zero-emissions_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_zero-emissions_vehicle > In California, PZEVs have their own administrative category for low-emission vehicles. The category was made in a bargain between automakers and the California Air Resources Board (CARB), so that automobile makers could delay making mandated zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs)—battery electric and fuel-cell electric vehicles.
- bluefirebrand 5mo agoThis is actually something I think is a pretty big failing in a lot of internet publishing You could easily turn those terms in the article into hyperlinks to definitions. You could even have the links go to definitions hosted on your own website to boost page reads and ad counts if you really wanted to
- wffurr 5mo agoMost user agents allow you to trivially search from selection. Double-click unfamiliar word, right click, select "search" or on macOS there's also "lookup" but that really only works on dictionary words.
- martythemaniak 5mo agoIt's actually dead simple: there are battery electric EVs and internal combustion cars. That's it. ICE cars come with a variety of add-ons and schemes to improve efficiency: fuel injectors, ECUs, braking energy capture systems (aka hybrid), small batteries for short trips that no one plugs in (aka plug in hybrids), etc.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- neogodless 5mo agoYou forgot EVs that come with an add-on that generates electricity by burning fuel!
- martythemaniak 5mo agoAKA container ships and locomotives, lol.
- flakeoil 5mo agoQuite frankly, today there is no need to look anywhere else than a pure electric car. No point to buy an ICE with battery + electric motor. It just adds complexity and makes it expensive to service. The newly released EVs today are so good and have fantastic range.
- spauldo 5mo agoUnless you travel a lot and live in hotels for months at a time, like I do. Granted, that's not horribly common but there are still legitimate reasons to want an ICE.