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I asked an Uber driver, formerly a taxi driver in LA, how he felt about the fact that his driving data was being used to build his replacement. He said he “did

I asked an Uber driver, formerly a taxi driver in LA, how he felt about the fact that his driving data was being used to build his replacement. He said he “didn’t care and besides what was he going to do about it anyway, it’s going to happen no matter what” I asked if he had ever heard of collective bargaining or knew about unions and he said no. I think we’re only about another generation before the only purpose for human labor is to train and check the outputs of a machine.

jcgrillo 6mo ago
I'm not too worried about it. Yeah, it's bad that people don't understand how labor organizing works. It's bad they're not willing to stand up to shitty employers and take a little risk to make life better. But in this particular case the fear is totally illusory. It's just another silicon valley conman selling some warped "dream" that probably won't actually materialize[1]. "Autonomous Vehicles" are nowhere near production ready, and they're not going to be any time soon. Wake me up when a serious truck or car manufacturer starts rolling them out en masse, then I might start to get worried about it. Until then, it's just about the same category as flying cars--sure, we have these hexacopter contraptions which can (barely) lift a single person for 20min. Not interesting. [1] Here's how you know: “Our goal is not to make money out of this data,” Naga said. “We want to democratize it.”
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  > Wake me up when a serious truck or car manufacturer starts rolling them out en masse, then I might start to get worried about it I think enough people haven’t been in a Waymo to realise that the technology is basically here, and that we’re like 10 to 20 years of doubling away from AVs doing tens of millions of trips a day in America. By the time anyone has invested in true mass production of AVs, we’ll already be so far down that path that the policy deck will be dealt.
  - jcgrillo 6mo ago
    I've been to san francisco before, it doesn't even snow there
    - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
      > it doesn't even snow there My Subaru can lane keep in a Wyoming blizzard. There isn’t some unsolved technical problem with snow for any system with radar, i.e. anyone who isn’t Tesla. Keep in mind that like a fifth of Americans and half of humans live somewhere is rarely or never snows.
      - jcgrillo 6mo ago
        I guess once they demonstrate it working smoothly and profitably in cities like Boston, NY, Detroit, etc. I'll be more concerned? Given that it doesn't really even work too well in places with good signage, lane markings, etc--not to mention no weather--I'm not worried yet. And frankly I'm done with "the future". If it doesn't deliver results now, it's not real. Until it's real, it's nothing to get alarmed about.
        JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
        > cities like Boston Couldn't come soon enough [1]. > Given that it doesn't really even work too well in places with good signage, lane markings, etc Works fine in Phoenix, Miami and Los Angeles. Plenty of neighbourhoods there have non-existent, defaced and degraded signage and markings. > Until it's real, it's nothing to get alarmed about I don't think there is anything to be alarmed about, period. Driving is a silly job when you think about it. We made these machines to do our bidding, not enslave us behind their wheels. My belief in a smooth roll-out is reinforced by those who would probably oppose AVs also not believing it's real. Once the first factory mass manufacturing AVs breaks ground, any limited local opposition can be preëmpted. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/shorts/back-to-boston/ https://waymo.com/blog/shorts/back-to-boston/
        jcgrillo 6mo ago
chii 6mo ago
> I asked if he had ever heard of collective bargaining or knew about unions and he said no. collective bargaining or unions do not prevent technological progress, but merely retard it in the hopes that their members can benefit at the cost of progress for everyone else. Look at dock workers and how they tried to prevent automation with unions.
- alex43578 6mo ago
  Surely if we smash all the spinning machines, everyone will be better off!
- infecto 6mo ago
  Dock workers are really the best example. We should have been automating at least a decade ago. I don’t know why folks would think unions or collective bargaining should be used to prevent automation. You will just lose on the medium to long term. Reminds me of when dockworkers resisted the shift to cargo containers. Those ports ultimately lost business in the end.
kjkjadksj 6mo ago
[flagged]
- AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
  There’s no “becoming” It’s here and it’s been here for decades - it’s just finally impossible to ignore or wave away Gig workers are self-chattelizing because there is no floor to the depravity that society will accept, and an endless supply of people who will chattelize themselves for a moment of pleasure
  - Avicebron 6mo ago
    It's more productive to discuss and bring to light the floor's underwriters than it is to blame gig workers for "chattel-izing themselves for a moment of pleasure".
  - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
    > for a moment of pleasure The pleasure of being an Uber driver? Wouldn’t the better analogy be survival for most gig workers?
    - AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
      The majority of people have absolutely no foundational belief for their actions it is simply how do I get more money sex property attention etc… There are no monks door dashing
      - chimpanzee 6mo ago
        Are you serious? So when I drive Uber to pay rent and feed myself, it is actually because I want sex and attention? Might want to remove the "Wizard" from your bio, it'd be far more accurate.
        AndrewKemendo 6mo ago

jcgrillo 6mo ago

I'm not too worried about it. Yeah, it's bad that people don't understand how labor organizing works. It's bad they're not willing to stand up to shitty employers and take a little risk to make life better. But in this particular case the fear is totally illusory. It's just another silicon valley conman selling some warped "dream" that probably won't actually materialize[1]. "Autonomous Vehicles" are nowhere near production ready, and they're not going to be any time soon. Wake me up when a serious truck or car manufacturer starts rolling them out en masse, then I might start to get worried about it. Until then, it's just about the same category as flying cars--sure, we have these hexacopter contraptions which can (barely) lift a single person for 20min. Not interesting. [1] Here's how you know: “Our goal is not to make money out of this data,” Naga said. “We want to democratize it.”

JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
> Wake me up when a serious truck or car manufacturer starts rolling them out en masse, then I might start to get worried about it I think enough people haven’t been in a Waymo to realise that the technology is basically here, and that we’re like 10 to 20 years of doubling away from AVs doing tens of millions of trips a day in America. By the time anyone has invested in true mass production of AVs, we’ll already be so far down that path that the policy deck will be dealt.
- jcgrillo 6mo ago
  I've been to san francisco before, it doesn't even snow there
  - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
    > it doesn't even snow there My Subaru can lane keep in a Wyoming blizzard. There isn’t some unsolved technical problem with snow for any system with radar, i.e. anyone who isn’t Tesla. Keep in mind that like a fifth of Americans and half of humans live somewhere is rarely or never snows.
    - jcgrillo 6mo ago
      I guess once they demonstrate it working smoothly and profitably in cities like Boston, NY, Detroit, etc. I'll be more concerned? Given that it doesn't really even work too well in places with good signage, lane markings, etc--not to mention no weather--I'm not worried yet. And frankly I'm done with "the future". If it doesn't deliver results now, it's not real. Until it's real, it's nothing to get alarmed about.
      - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
        > cities like Boston Couldn't come soon enough [1]. > Given that it doesn't really even work too well in places with good signage, lane markings, etc Works fine in Phoenix, Miami and Los Angeles. Plenty of neighbourhoods there have non-existent, defaced and degraded signage and markings. > Until it's real, it's nothing to get alarmed about I don't think there is anything to be alarmed about, period. Driving is a silly job when you think about it. We made these machines to do our bidding, not enslave us behind their wheels. My belief in a smooth roll-out is reinforced by those who would probably oppose AVs also not believing it's real. Once the first factory mass manufacturing AVs breaks ground, any limited local opposition can be preëmpted. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/shorts/back-to-boston/ https://waymo.com/blog/shorts/back-to-boston/
        jcgrillo 6mo ago

chii 6mo ago

> I asked if he had ever heard of collective bargaining or knew about unions and he said no. collective bargaining or unions do not prevent technological progress, but merely retard it in the hopes that their members can benefit at the cost of progress for everyone else. Look at dock workers and how they tried to prevent automation with unions.

alex43578 6mo ago
Surely if we smash all the spinning machines, everyone will be better off!
infecto 6mo ago
Dock workers are really the best example. We should have been automating at least a decade ago. I don’t know why folks would think unions or collective bargaining should be used to prevent automation. You will just lose on the medium to long term. Reminds me of when dockworkers resisted the shift to cargo containers. Those ports ultimately lost business in the end.

kjkjadksj 6mo ago

[flagged]

AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
There’s no “becoming” It’s here and it’s been here for decades - it’s just finally impossible to ignore or wave away Gig workers are self-chattelizing because there is no floor to the depravity that society will accept, and an endless supply of people who will chattelize themselves for a moment of pleasure
- Avicebron 6mo ago
  It's more productive to discuss and bring to light the floor's underwriters than it is to blame gig workers for "chattel-izing themselves for a moment of pleasure".
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  > for a moment of pleasure The pleasure of being an Uber driver? Wouldn’t the better analogy be survival for most gig workers?
  - AndrewKemendo 6mo ago
    The majority of people have absolutely no foundational belief for their actions it is simply how do I get more money sex property attention etc… There are no monks door dashing
    - chimpanzee 6mo ago
      Are you serious? So when I drive Uber to pay rent and feed myself, it is actually because I want sex and attention? Might want to remove the "Wizard" from your bio, it'd be far more accurate.
      - AndrewKemendo 6mo ago