5 ms·
Infrasound waves stop kitchen fires, but can they replace sprinklers?
- ErroneousBosh 6mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- Larrikin 6mo agoThat's not how sprinklers work? Have you ever lived in a place with sprinklers? Do you actually think they go off when ever the highly sensitive smoke detectors detect you made your pizza extra crispy with the window closed.
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago[dead]
- mikestew 6mo ago"By accident"? How do you think sprinklers work, exactly? You "accidentally" left the sauna door open and now the living room is 160F? If it were a problem, you'd be hearing about it from apartment dwellers, since sprinklers are required in many (if not most) cases: https://firetechsprinkler.com/blog/when-are-sprinklers-required-in-residential-buildings/ https://firetechsprinkler.com/blog/when-are-sprinklers-requi...
- bobmcnamara 6mo agoShelves moving and people hanging suits on them come to mind.
- lxgr 6mo agoMaybe in the US. I've never seen a sprinkler in an apartment building in Europe.
- appreciatorBus 6mo agoMandating sprinklers in apartments, but not in houses, is one of the myriad ways North America chose to make the construction of apartments uneconomical, and thus uncommon. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01944369208975533 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0194436920897553... > Veiller, concerned with strategy, proposed that legislation to prevent multifamily housing use indirect methods because "zoning legislation will no doubt be fought strenuously and perhaps defeated." He outlined an approach designed to make apartment construction, even of three-unit dwellings, prohibitively expensive: > ‘Do everything possible in our laws to encourage the construction of private dwellings and even two-family dwellings, because the two-family house is the next least objectionable type, and penalize so far as we can in our statute, the multiple dwelling of any kind.... If we require multiple dwellings to be fireproof, and thus increase the cost of construction; if we require stairs to be fireproofed, even where there are only three families; if we require fire escapes and a host of other things, all dealing with fire protection, we are on safe grounds, because that can be justified as a legitimate exercise of the police power.... In our laws let most of the fire provisions relate solely to multiple dwellings, and allow our private houses and two-family houses to be built with no fire protection whatever’ (NHA Proceedings 1913, 212).
- lxgr 6mo agoWow, I heard about the weird dual staircase fire regulation thing (effectively requiring these horrible dystopian corridors), but I had no idea these regulations were that intentionally anti-apartment-building.
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago[dead]
- lurking_swe 6mo agolet me help educate you. :) Most common sprinkler type used in a residential setting is “wet pipe”: https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and-articles/blogs/2021/03/26/sprinkler-system-basics-types-of-sprinkler-systems https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and-articles/blogs/2021/03/2... The sprinkler is “activated” if the ambient temperature around the sprinkler head is 40C, due to the little “wet pipe” in the sprinkler bursting. 40C is HOT. Basically - when your whole apartment is beginning to catch fire. It’s designed to save lives, not your things. Newer (higher end) apartments will have the sprinkler itself hidden / recessed, this way the little wet pipe / vial can’t be accidentally damaged by force (when cleaning, painting, etc)
- prmoustache 6mo agoWhile 40°C is hot, it is not insanely hot. Every summer temp goes easily above 35°C in my apartment for a number of days.
- serf 6mo ago40c is miserable to be in, but it's not really that hot compared to fire or combustion. The record hot day in Phoenix was 50c; miserable but livable w/ precautions. wet pipe burst temps are between 57c-75c .
- ErroneousBosh 6mo ago> The sprinkler is “activated” if the ambient temperature around the sprinkler head is 40C So pretty much room temperature in central Europe in summer?
- lurking_swe 6mo agothere’s different types of sprinklers which can be used in different settings. :) And actually i misspoke on the 40C! I mixed up that number with something else so that’s my bad. It actually activates around 60C-70C depending on the make/model.
- BeetleB 6mo ago40C is not comfortable, but it's pretty normal summer weather in many parts of the world.
- onetwentythree 6mo agoTo provide more information than the others who responded: typical sprinkler systems are not automatically activated in response to a fire alarm. Each sprinkler head has a small glass vial filled with a liquid, calibrated to break at a certain elevated temperature (e.g 160 or 180 F). The flow of water starts when the glass breaks. So there has to be a significant fire near the sprinkler before it activates. One weakness is that the glass vial is fragile. In some hotels you’ll see signs reminding guests not to hang clothes from the sprinkler head, as a clothes hanger could break the vial and activate the water flow.
- estimator7292 6mo agoPlease enlighten us then, why do many countries require commercial kitchens have fire sprinklers if it's such a terrible and dangerous idea?
- wolrah 6mo agoMost developed jurisdictions require commercial kitchens (and commercial spaces in general) to have fire suppression systems, not necessarily fire sprinklers. Water sprinklers are a common choice for fire suppression in many spaces because they're relatively cheap, but they're not the only option. A kitchen fire suppression system will generally be a wet chemical system that will safely blanket a grease fire while still being easy to clean off of food prep surfaces unlike dry chemicals.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo agoPresumably because the regulations were written by people who have zero experience of either kitchens, fires, or kitchen fires. Do you know what happens when you put water on an oil fire, which is pretty much what you're going to have in a kitchen?
- post-it 6mo ago> Do you know what happens when you put water on an oil fire When the water is coming out of the ceiling at 25 gpm, you get a lot of slightly oily water and no fire. To answer your earlier question, the purpose of sprinklers in a house is to save my pets' lives if a fire starts while I'm away.
- ceejayoz 6mo agoYou seem to erroneously believe these are a little squirt gun pointed right at the oil pot.
- cucumber3732842 6mo agoIt's kind of funny that everyone's crapping on this comment when the poor value proposition of sprinklers in residential settings is exactly what enabled the investment to develop this system.
- ccamrobertson 6mo agoWorse yet, you might not have a choice; the article notes that “sprinklers are already required in all new California homes built in 2011 and later.”
- ErroneousBosh 6mo agoWell, one choice would be to simply not live in California. There's no good reason why anyone would want to.
- jeffbee 6mo agoI use to worry about this but the industry claims about 1 per 20 million accidental discharge per year, which over the lifespan of a home works out to be 10-1000x less than other common hazards (including fire).
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- windowliker 6mo agoAnyone with experience of standing in front of a bass bin at a drum n bass rave will instantly understand why this could work.
- xiaod 6mo agoI'd want to see more about the failure modes. Production systems need graceful degradation more than optimal performance.
- giantg2 6mo agoI wonder what the frequency is and what it's resonant with. There could be some interesting and dangerous side effects.
- dabinat 6mo agoI doubt this would be as effective as a sprinkler because sprinklers cool surfaces as well as extinguishing. But I could see it being a useful complement to a sprinkler, as a first-line defense in the early moments of a fire starting. Sprinklers only kick in once the fire is already well-established and do enormous water damage.
- appreciatorBus 6mo agoYeah, that was my thought too. Additionally, even if they cannot replace sprinklers, not all buildings even have sprinklers. This technology could still be useful for cheap retrofits to add some fire protection at low cost rather than either demolishing or performing an expensive sprinkler.
- IshKebab 6mo agoIt could be useful in places that can't use sprinklers like clean rooms and maybe data centres, as a first defence before they activate the super expensive & human-killing gas suppression systems.
- Terr_ 6mo agoGetting lost and drowning in fire suppressant foam in an aircraft hangar. It's a very niche and unrealistic fear for me, but trying-to-fall-asleep brain does weird things.
- jubilanti 6mo agoGlad Ars isn't just 100% regurgitating a startup's press release: > The company told Ars that it has been evaluated by James Andy Lynch (who was present at the demonstration) and his team at Fire Solutions Group, a Pennsylvania-based consultancy, to establish Sonic Fire Tech’s bona fides. Sonic Fire Tech declined to provide Ars with a full copy of Lynch’s report, citing “confidential and patent-pending information,” but it did send Ars the two-page executive summary. > But the summary lacks any kind of detailed explanation of which tests were run and under what conditions. It also concludes that “additional testing and optimization are recommended to further expand the range of validated applications,” adding that Sonic Fire Tech’s products have the “potential to complement or, in certain applications, serve as an alternative to traditional suppression systems.” > “Equivalency [to the 13D standard] can only be approved by the appropriate authority having jurisdiction and requires technical documentation be submitted demonstrating the equivalency,” Jonathan Hart, NFPA Technical Lead, Fire Protection Technical Resources, emailed Ars. > To date, Sonic Fire Tech has not publicly provided this information.
- jubilanti 6mo agoHumans have to do this work. If you want your tech journalism to not just be LLM-washed press releases, then toss Ars a few bucks a month for a subscription.
- dd8601fn 6mo agoYeah, New York Post was screaming that it's a miracle. Ars wasn't having it. And the video that was shared looks really unimpressive.
- aaron695 6mo ago[dead]
- nubinetwork 6mo agoWhy does it take so long? We've had faster versions for at least a decade... https://cec.gmu.edu/news/2015-02/pump-bass-douse-blaze-mason-students-invention-fights-fires https://cec.gmu.edu/news/2015-02/pump-bass-douse-blaze-mason... https://youtu.be/hkUv5gCA-1w https://youtu.be/hkUv5gCA-1w
- rowyourboat 6mo ago> An AI-driven sensor activates and wall emitters blast infrasound waves toward the source of the fire in an attempt to put it out What, exactly, is the role of AI in this context?
- ChicagoBoy11 6mo agoTo help with seed rounds before revenue /s
- IshKebab 6mo agoCould be vision based fire detection.
- CMay 6mo agoDoesn't this need line of sight? If a fire starts outside of the line of sight, that's the time the fire needs to get out of control and you would have to test this system in that scenario. Sprinklers will soak everything and make it harder for the fire to spread.
- nolroz 6mo agoImagine the calamity in your kitchen as you rush to take care of the fire right when the mega subwoofer machine starts on top of your smoke alarm. Do they sell an infrasound heart attack machine too?