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I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. Th

I struggle with this. I feel so guilty for replacing my four year old phone this week, even though my old phone has had hardware issues for more than a year. There wasn't really a puritanical element for me, it seems to be just from growing below the poverty line. The flip side of it is I've accidentally joined the FIRE movement. Making a moderate tech salary for most of my time since graduating college but feeling guilty about spending means I'm now in my early 40s and don't really have to work anymore, or at least, could comfortably take any job I want without worrying about what the pay rate is. I don't really know how to feel about that. After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted. But there are also weird feelings from working because you want to at a workplace where most everyone else is working because they have to.

adithyassekhar 6mo ago
You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. We managed to make the latter irrelevant or by no means a high earner. Everything is expensive, tech took over all the jobs, now tech itself has found ways to end those jobs. You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry.
- insom 6mo ago
  I'm in the same situation as GP and while I think you're right (we're some of the last well paid software developers who aren't also founders) it doesn't help with feeling less guilty! It's a weird kind of guilt because it's not like we individually created these economic conditions; we were just there at the right time to take advantage of them before they were gone. I tend to think of this as "useless guilt" (vs. guilt about taking a transatlantic flight or other high-impact activity -- which I still do, but I think that guilt is societally useful)
- anticorporate 6mo ago
  > You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. I do, and and I think that's part of the reason I feel guilty about not working. Why should I get an easy ride when other people did not? I suppose there's some small element of worrying that I'm wrong about my future needs . I know I have some skills that are still useful and I can put them to work now, but I'm less sure I'd be able to do that in five years. That part of it is probably not maladaptive, however, even though it probably comes from the same place of growing up with very little.
  - bluefirebrand 6mo ago
    > I do, and and I think that's part of the reason I feel guilty about not working. Why should I get an easy ride when other people did not? Devils Advocate: Why don't you feel guilty for continuing to work, continuing to absorb a salary that doesn't really matter for you but could be life changing for someone else who is looking for their chance? Just a slightly different perspective
    - anticorporate 6mo ago
      That's certainly a consideration. The story I tell myself is that brought a skill set to the job that the organization I work for otherwise couldn't afford and took a salary well below the market rate for the position. It's a worker-owned cooperative retailer with a relatively flat pay scale that doesn't differentiate between types of roles, only levels, so I'm on the same pay ladder as our cashiers and dishwashers. I am, though, perhaps taking a job from someone else who wanted to pivot their career. There are no perfect answers.
      - jimbokun 6mo ago
        Sounds like you’re living the FIRE dream.
  - jimbokun 6mo ago
    Working a paid job does nothing to help those less fortunate than you. Maybe by retiring early you can free up time to help others in more creative ways?
- engineer_22 6mo ago
  > You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry. No, you just need to live within your means. The internet is amazing, I like to watch videos from developing nations, where people live on a fraction of western budgets... what strikes me is the happy, free people I see. That's hard to fake.
  - adithyassekhar 6mo ago
    What you see is the happy side of things, of a particular section of society, packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. They’re either too poor and uneducated or too rich. Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. > No, you just need to live within your means. I politely disagree. Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthcare, losing a job, unexpected expenses, affording the facilities to participate in society rather than becoming a travelling nomad. It’s easy to be blind to your own blessings, even more so if you have already lived a life. These are life goals for people of my generation in my country. People, educated ones, are no longer marrying. Guess why?
    - engineer_22 6mo ago
      > What you see is [...] packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. Maybe. Or maybe they are genuinely young, free, and happy. > Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. Yes, but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. Not a bug, a feature. > Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthcare, losing a job, unexpected expenses, affording the facilities to participate in society rather than becoming a travelling nomad. My friend, I do not know your circumstances so I venture carefully. Your reply seems to be focused on risk, rather than what a person can control by their own behavior. Risk is a part of life - we all have different tolerance of risk. What I mean by "live within your means" is to spend less than you earn. I understand the difficulties, but it is not impossible. I have been in poverty in my life, and I feel fortunate that we were able to escape it. > People, educated ones, are no longer marrying. Guess why? I have my own theories, but I'd be happy to know yours
- alphawhisky 6mo ago
  > You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry. Civil Engineer here. Used to get clowned on by other STEM students for going into one of the "lowest paying" engineering majors. Post grad, I can't imagine a more stable job, and my generational cohort is having a hard time. Boy do I feel smart. And the bonuses after construction season? Forget about it.
  - adithyassekhar 6mo ago
    Ah yes, forgot about Civil/Mechanical/Electrical. These I believe are foundational disciplines.
  - wing-_-nuts 6mo ago
    I would think the biggest reward in civil engineering is seeing some tangible piece of infrastructure you designed, built, and serving society. Software engineering has been an interesting career, but I die a little inside when software I've written gets blown away like a Tibetan sand painting.
  - jimbokun 6mo ago
    Well played. Atoms >> Bytes.
- stronglikedan 6mo ago
  > You either have to be a medical professional not even any longer, unfortunately
stronglikedan 6mo ago
I just replaced my five year old phone for the same reasons, but I haven't been able to let go of my old one yet. It still works so I must find something to use it for!
square_usual 6mo ago
> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery instead of learning to be okay with living life when they can. I had these struggles too - I cut corners I didn't need to, and it took me a long time to internalize that I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s. E: I'm editing to say this because like four different people have issued variations of the same response: the alternative to FIRE is *not* not saving! It's saving for your future while not aiming to retire early. Set a good target savings rate that will help you comfortably retire in your 60s, and spend the rest on things you care about. Let go of the mindset that any spending is taking years off your retirement.
- _alternator_ 6mo ago
  I think this is a false dichotomy. My wife and I worked through our 20s, but regularly took vacations. We flew to NYC from LA at least 2x per year from 25-30. We had season ski passes. We lived frugally but well. I was in grad school, she was a consultant. Our income was solidly lower middle class for LA, and we still managed to save 25-40% of our income per year. Now that I've got a kid and am in my 40s, I've taken a year off, and I don't think I'd be bored in "early retirement". I'd probably spend time with my daughter, do more camping, and work on intellectual side projects (I have more than I can count). The trick has been: I don't try to keep up with other people, I follow my own passions. I know how to cook, and to make my own fun. I'm curious and I like find out answers on my own. I never took on credit card debt. I'm lucky because I had support from my parents through early college. I got student loans and supported myself after sophomore year or so. (I'm strategically still paying the minimum on those loans fwiw.) otherwise I stayed out of debt until I got a mortgage in my late 30s. So, it is possible to do both. But I have noticed that I have a better ability to control my desire for acquisition than most people, and a decent amount of frugality in most areas of my life.
  - 6mo ago
bgirard 6mo ago
I struggle with this too. But I remind myself that I'm buying myself one of the most expensive and valuable gift: freedom and independence. I also continue to work because I enjoy it. And that will let me pass on this gift to my children.
m463 6mo ago
Lots of people who retire poorly, die. I don't mean money, I mean a plan. I think even if you retire, you need a JOB. You can define it, but you need something to do, to engage you. You also need vigorous exercise and strength training. great book: younger next year

adithyassekhar 6mo ago

You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. We managed to make the latter irrelevant or by no means a high earner. Everything is expensive, tech took over all the jobs, now tech itself has found ways to end those jobs. You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry.

insom 6mo ago
I'm in the same situation as GP and while I think you're right (we're some of the last well paid software developers who aren't also founders) it doesn't help with feeling less guilty! It's a weird kind of guilt because it's not like we individually created these economic conditions; we were just there at the right time to take advantage of them before they were gone. I tend to think of this as "useless guilt" (vs. guilt about taking a transatlantic flight or other high-impact activity -- which I still do, but I think that guilt is societally useful)
anticorporate 6mo ago
> You know there’s an upcoming generation of developers who are so jealous of you? Not your fault or anything. I do, and and I think that's part of the reason I feel guilty about not working. Why should I get an easy ride when other people did not? I suppose there's some small element of worrying that I'm wrong about my future needs . I know I have some skills that are still useful and I can put them to work now, but I'm less sure I'd be able to do that in five years. That part of it is probably not maladaptive, however, even though it probably comes from the same place of growing up with very little.
- bluefirebrand 6mo ago
  > I do, and and I think that's part of the reason I feel guilty about not working. Why should I get an easy ride when other people did not? Devils Advocate: Why don't you feel guilty for continuing to work, continuing to absorb a salary that doesn't really matter for you but could be life changing for someone else who is looking for their chance? Just a slightly different perspective
  - anticorporate 6mo ago
    That's certainly a consideration. The story I tell myself is that brought a skill set to the job that the organization I work for otherwise couldn't afford and took a salary well below the market rate for the position. It's a worker-owned cooperative retailer with a relatively flat pay scale that doesn't differentiate between types of roles, only levels, so I'm on the same pay ladder as our cashiers and dishwashers. I am, though, perhaps taking a job from someone else who wanted to pivot their career. There are no perfect answers.
    - jimbokun 6mo ago
      Sounds like you’re living the FIRE dream.
- jimbokun 6mo ago
  Working a paid job does nothing to help those less fortunate than you. Maybe by retiring early you can free up time to help others in more creative ways?
engineer_22 6mo ago
> You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry. No, you just need to live within your means. The internet is amazing, I like to watch videos from developing nations, where people live on a fraction of western budgets... what strikes me is the happy, free people I see. That's hard to fake.
- adithyassekhar 6mo ago
  What you see is the happy side of things, of a particular section of society, packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. They’re either too poor and uneducated or too rich. Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. > No, you just need to live within your means. I politely disagree. Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthcare, losing a job, unexpected expenses, affording the facilities to participate in society rather than becoming a travelling nomad. It’s easy to be blind to your own blessings, even more so if you have already lived a life. These are life goals for people of my generation in my country. People, educated ones, are no longer marrying. Guess why?
  - engineer_22 6mo ago
    > What you see is [...] packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. Maybe. Or maybe they are genuinely young, free, and happy. > Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. Yes, but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. Not a bug, a feature. > Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthcare, losing a job, unexpected expenses, affording the facilities to participate in society rather than becoming a travelling nomad. My friend, I do not know your circumstances so I venture carefully. Your reply seems to be focused on risk, rather than what a person can control by their own behavior. Risk is a part of life - we all have different tolerance of risk. What I mean by "live within your means" is to spend less than you earn. I understand the difficulties, but it is not impossible. I have been in poverty in my life, and I feel fortunate that we were able to escape it. > People, educated ones, are no longer marrying. Guess why? I have my own theories, but I'd be happy to know yours
alphawhisky 6mo ago
> You either have to be a medical professional/media person now to live without worry. Civil Engineer here. Used to get clowned on by other STEM students for going into one of the "lowest paying" engineering majors. Post grad, I can't imagine a more stable job, and my generational cohort is having a hard time. Boy do I feel smart. And the bonuses after construction season? Forget about it.
- adithyassekhar 6mo ago
  Ah yes, forgot about Civil/Mechanical/Electrical. These I believe are foundational disciplines.
- wing-_-nuts 6mo ago
  I would think the biggest reward in civil engineering is seeing some tangible piece of infrastructure you designed, built, and serving society. Software engineering has been an interesting career, but I die a little inside when software I've written gets blown away like a Tibetan sand painting.
- jimbokun 6mo ago
  Well played. Atoms >> Bytes.
stronglikedan 6mo ago
> You either have to be a medical professional not even any longer, unfortunately

stronglikedan 6mo ago

I just replaced my five year old phone for the same reasons, but I haven't been able to let go of my old one yet. It still works so I must find something to use it for!

square_usual 6mo ago

> After my last job in tech I took about a half a year off before realizing I also felt guilty about not working, and took a job I wanted Well, yeah, that's kind of the problem. If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. It's nice to have that option, but many people who get into FIRE commit themselves to a lifetime of slight misery instead of learning to be okay with living life when they can. I had these struggles too - I cut corners I didn't need to, and it took me a long time to internalize that I'd rather enjoy my life in my 20s than save money to do nothing in my 40s. E: I'm editing to say this because like four different people have issued variations of the same response: the alternative to FIRE is *not* not saving! It's saving for your future while not aiming to retire early. Set a good target savings rate that will help you comfortably retire in your 60s, and spend the rest on things you care about. Let go of the mindset that any spending is taking years off your retirement.

_alternator_ 6mo ago
I think this is a false dichotomy. My wife and I worked through our 20s, but regularly took vacations. We flew to NYC from LA at least 2x per year from 25-30. We had season ski passes. We lived frugally but well. I was in grad school, she was a consultant. Our income was solidly lower middle class for LA, and we still managed to save 25-40% of our income per year. Now that I've got a kid and am in my 40s, I've taken a year off, and I don't think I'd be bored in "early retirement". I'd probably spend time with my daughter, do more camping, and work on intellectual side projects (I have more than I can count). The trick has been: I don't try to keep up with other people, I follow my own passions. I know how to cook, and to make my own fun. I'm curious and I like find out answers on my own. I never took on credit card debt. I'm lucky because I had support from my parents through early college. I got student loans and supported myself after sophomore year or so. (I'm strategically still paying the minimum on those loans fwiw.) otherwise I stayed out of debt until I got a mortgage in my late 30s. So, it is possible to do both. But I have noticed that I have a better ability to control my desire for acquisition than most people, and a decent amount of frugality in most areas of my life.
- 6mo ago

bgirard 6mo ago

I struggle with this too. But I remind myself that I'm buying myself one of the most expensive and valuable gift: freedom and independence. I also continue to work because I enjoy it. And that will let me pass on this gift to my children.

m463 6mo ago

Lots of people who retire poorly, die. I don't mean money, I mean a plan. I think even if you retire, you need a JOB. You can define it, but you need something to do, to engage you. You also need vigorous exercise and strength training. great book: younger next year