5 ms·

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point wh

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point where they cross a threshold where they have met all of their financial goals, and the "problem" is no longer how save money but to enjoy spending it. And this can be a real challenge for people who have built up deeply ingrained saving habits. My mother, for example, refuses to replace her iPhone SE with something with a larger screen despite 1) having failing vision and difficulty reading the screen, 2) using her iPhone every day, 3) easily being able to afford it. The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do, even though I think it would help alleviate a real source of frustration in her life. My father, when he started shopping for his most recent car (and probably his final car), set out with the intent to buy a luxury car. But again, despite being able to easily afford one, all he was able to bring himself to buy was a well-equipped Toyota. Don't get me wrong - it's a great car and has served him incredibly well. But it makes me a little sad that he wasn't able to bring himself to finally treat himself to a luxury car after a lifetime of hard work and saving. They did a lot of long road trips together in that car in retirement, and I think they would have enjoyed something a bit more luxurious (though on the other hand, the reliability of the Toyota is not to be discounted).

chromacity 5mo ago
I think what you're attributing to frugality might be a more a matter of age? Many older folks are just wary of change. I'm not that old, but every time I upgrade my PC or phone, some of my workflows break and I need to pointlessly re-learn things I'd rather not re-learn. UI buttons get moved around, icons change, some settings are removed and others are added... this was exciting the first ten or twenty times, but it's just tiring now. Basically, I'm at this stage in life where my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again". In another ten years, I'll probably just say "no, I'm not doing this again, just let me use my old computer for as long as possible".
- skirmish 5mo ago
  > my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again" I must be young at heart while >60 years old; my reaction was "why is everybody whining about it, it's pretty nice, I like it". Same with jj vs git, jj is amazing!
  - altruios 5mo ago
    Never heard of JJ, why is it better than git, and how did you learn about it?
    - skirmish 5mo ago
      Lots of discussions on HN about it recently [1], [2], I heard of it right here. It works on git repositories, so it's very easy to try. For me, the killer feature is updating some commit deep inside some feature branch, and all child commits and branches get auto-updated, no more faffing with endless rebases. Also conflict handling is so much more pleasant than git's. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47763759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47763759 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45672280 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45672280
  - rurp 5mo ago
    It's definitely varies by person. I'm much more like the GP where relearning how to do basic things I already know how to do is one of the absolute last things I want to spend my time on, but I know plenty of people who are the opposite. Newness and novelty are genuine features for some, and that's totally fine. The annoying thing is that the latter group is over-represented in tech and a lot of core products like phones force people into that path. Most of the non-tech people I know couldn't care less about the latest iphone/android update,they just want the damn buttons to stay the same so they can do the stuff they were doing yesterday. But the only two phone platforms both change their UX regularly and users just have to go along with it.
    - jimbokun 5mo ago
normie3000 5mo ago
I agree your mother should get a new phone with a big screen, but what qualifies as a luxury car? There are Toyotas that cost 6 figures USD.
- freetime2 5mo ago
  I think he was considering a Lexus RX. I doubt he even looked at BMW, Mercedes, etc (not really his style). His Toyota was probably under $40k. This was back when cars were quite a bit less expensive than now. Nice car for sure, but the Lexus probably would have been a bit more refined.
  - wiseowise 5mo ago
    How old is your old man?
Evidlo 5mo ago
Or get a previous gen used iPhone, then she can have both a big screen and feel good about the cheap phone.
kashunstva 5mo ago
My own parents are in their late 90’s. Because they grew up in the wake of the Great Depression, I always assumed their extreme frugality was a function of the economic distress in their formative years. They also properly accounted for the fact that old-age care is very expensive. Parenthetically, most do not seem to anticipate that accelerated burn rate near the EOL. It’s also a phase whose duration is hard to predict.
- SoftTalker 5mo ago
  It's made harder in that every aspect of services for the elderly is oriented at extracting all their wealth before they die.
tonyedgecombe 5mo ago
When I started driving my car had vinyl seats that you had to peel yourself out of on a hot day, a plastic steering wheel that you could barely touch when the sun was out, hand wound windows, fixed seat belts and a handbrake that barely worked. Even the cheapest car on the market feels luxurious now. In comparison the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus is marginal. Expensive cars are mostly about status signalling, we are long past good enough.
- wallst07 5mo ago
  >Expensive cars are mostly about status signalling Uhm, only if you are counting the most basic utility, then you're right. However if you actually enjoy driving (A->A driving), there is a HGUE difference and it's not just signaling. It's that you probably can't tell the difference, or don't care. There is no comparison between driving a new Porsche or Bentley vs a new Toyota or even a Lexus.
  - hhh 5mo ago
    Can you explain why?
    - ubermonkey 5mo ago
      They cannot, because they are wrong. And I say this as a person who has owned no small number of fancy cars (but I got better). A new base-model Prius is absurdly luxurious compared to a base model car of 1975 or 1985 or even 1995. If you have lived long enough to see this change, then dropping 2x or 3x or 10x the cost of the Prius self-evidently puts you wildly beyond the point of diminishing returns. The Prius is going to have excellent climate control, and a phenomenal stereo. It's going to have adaptive cruise control, and will warn you when you drift out of your lane, or if you're about to run into an obstacle. Outside of motorsports-sorts of things, what you get out of more expensive vehicles is of limited utility. Mostly, it's just showing off. Now, if you want a track weapon, then yeah, you DO get more by spending. But for a regular person who wants to get from point A to point B comfortably and safely? The Prius is fantastic, and it's hard to justify spending more unless you're willing to admit that it's a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses kind of thing.
benj111 5mo ago
But what is 'luxury'? You may have in mind a Rolls Royce. But maybe he doesn't want that. If they've been frugal their entire life, they aren't as far along the hedonistic treadmill, a new reliable car is a luxury. If you're used to darning socks, buying new socks is a luxury. If I buy a PS2 today, why is that not a splurge, if I didn't have one previously? Yes it doesn't have the best graphics but it's a step up from my PS1. Getting the latest and greatest just because, is keeping up with the Joneses. And that's a path to spending money, not happiness. The knowledge that you have enough in your bank account if things go to pot, itself brings happiness
layer8 5mo ago
> The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do She wouldn’t need to spend that much. You can get a perfectly fine refurbished iPhone 16e for $400.
jimbokun 5mo ago
Sounds like his money was better spent on the trips than spending more on a car that wouldn’t make the trips any better.
duskdozer 5mo ago
Are you sure they were deciding only or even primarily based on cost? I often find myself choosing cheaper options over more expensive ones, because I find them easier or more enjoyable to use. I think with expensive/luxury products, there tends to be more "curation" and opinionation, which can work well if your preferences line up but is a detriment if not. I also think a lot of times more expensive products are just "luxury-hacking," having focused on "building a brand" to the point where they are able to charge more for worse products. Example: Beats headphones adding weights inside just so that they "feel more premium" https://www.news.com.au/technology/home-entertainment/audio/beats-puts-metal-weights-in-its-headphones-to-make-them-feel-more-premium/news-story/90df72745af2c225fa786a8723d07b02 https://www.news.com.au/technology/home-entertainment/audio/...
exceptione 5mo ago
> The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do Your parents are smart. 1000 dollars for a phone is absolute nonsense. A luxury car is something you should be sure you will thoroughly enjoy, because they are a good way to set money on fire. If you do want one, buy it second hand, for it will cost hundreds of dollars per km for the first kilometers.

chromacity 5mo ago

I think what you're attributing to frugality might be a more a matter of age? Many older folks are just wary of change. I'm not that old, but every time I upgrade my PC or phone, some of my workflows break and I need to pointlessly re-learn things I'd rather not re-learn. UI buttons get moved around, icons change, some settings are removed and others are added... this was exciting the first ten or twenty times, but it's just tiring now. Basically, I'm at this stage in life where my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again". In another ten years, I'll probably just say "no, I'm not doing this again, just let me use my old computer for as long as possible".

skirmish 5mo ago
> my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again" I must be young at heart while >60 years old; my reaction was "why is everybody whining about it, it's pretty nice, I like it". Same with jj vs git, jj is amazing!
- altruios 5mo ago
  Never heard of JJ, why is it better than git, and how did you learn about it?
  - skirmish 5mo ago
    Lots of discussions on HN about it recently [1], [2], I heard of it right here. It works on git repositories, so it's very easy to try. For me, the killer feature is updating some commit deep inside some feature branch, and all child commits and branches get auto-updated, no more faffing with endless rebases. Also conflict handling is so much more pleasant than git's. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47763759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47763759 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45672280 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45672280
- rurp 5mo ago
  It's definitely varies by person. I'm much more like the GP where relearning how to do basic things I already know how to do is one of the absolute last things I want to spend my time on, but I know plenty of people who are the opposite. Newness and novelty are genuine features for some, and that's totally fine. The annoying thing is that the latter group is over-represented in tech and a lot of core products like phones force people into that path. Most of the non-tech people I know couldn't care less about the latest iphone/android update,they just want the damn buttons to stay the same so they can do the stuff they were doing yesterday. But the only two phone platforms both change their UX regularly and users just have to go along with it.
  - jimbokun 5mo ago

normie3000 5mo ago

I agree your mother should get a new phone with a big screen, but what qualifies as a luxury car? There are Toyotas that cost 6 figures USD.

freetime2 5mo ago
I think he was considering a Lexus RX. I doubt he even looked at BMW, Mercedes, etc (not really his style). His Toyota was probably under $40k. This was back when cars were quite a bit less expensive than now. Nice car for sure, but the Lexus probably would have been a bit more refined.
- wiseowise 5mo ago
  How old is your old man?

Evidlo 5mo ago

Or get a previous gen used iPhone, then she can have both a big screen and feel good about the cheap phone.

kashunstva 5mo ago

My own parents are in their late 90’s. Because they grew up in the wake of the Great Depression, I always assumed their extreme frugality was a function of the economic distress in their formative years. They also properly accounted for the fact that old-age care is very expensive. Parenthetically, most do not seem to anticipate that accelerated burn rate near the EOL. It’s also a phase whose duration is hard to predict.

SoftTalker 5mo ago
It's made harder in that every aspect of services for the elderly is oriented at extracting all their wealth before they die.

tonyedgecombe 5mo ago

When I started driving my car had vinyl seats that you had to peel yourself out of on a hot day, a plastic steering wheel that you could barely touch when the sun was out, hand wound windows, fixed seat belts and a handbrake that barely worked. Even the cheapest car on the market feels luxurious now. In comparison the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus is marginal. Expensive cars are mostly about status signalling, we are long past good enough.

wallst07 5mo ago
>Expensive cars are mostly about status signalling Uhm, only if you are counting the most basic utility, then you're right. However if you actually enjoy driving (A->A driving), there is a HGUE difference and it's not just signaling. It's that you probably can't tell the difference, or don't care. There is no comparison between driving a new Porsche or Bentley vs a new Toyota or even a Lexus.
- hhh 5mo ago
  Can you explain why?
  - ubermonkey 5mo ago
    They cannot, because they are wrong. And I say this as a person who has owned no small number of fancy cars (but I got better). A new base-model Prius is absurdly luxurious compared to a base model car of 1975 or 1985 or even 1995. If you have lived long enough to see this change, then dropping 2x or 3x or 10x the cost of the Prius self-evidently puts you wildly beyond the point of diminishing returns. The Prius is going to have excellent climate control, and a phenomenal stereo. It's going to have adaptive cruise control, and will warn you when you drift out of your lane, or if you're about to run into an obstacle. Outside of motorsports-sorts of things, what you get out of more expensive vehicles is of limited utility. Mostly, it's just showing off. Now, if you want a track weapon, then yeah, you DO get more by spending. But for a regular person who wants to get from point A to point B comfortably and safely? The Prius is fantastic, and it's hard to justify spending more unless you're willing to admit that it's a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses kind of thing.

benj111 5mo ago

But what is 'luxury'? You may have in mind a Rolls Royce. But maybe he doesn't want that. If they've been frugal their entire life, they aren't as far along the hedonistic treadmill, a new reliable car is a luxury. If you're used to darning socks, buying new socks is a luxury. If I buy a PS2 today, why is that not a splurge, if I didn't have one previously? Yes it doesn't have the best graphics but it's a step up from my PS1. Getting the latest and greatest just because, is keeping up with the Joneses. And that's a path to spending money, not happiness. The knowledge that you have enough in your bank account if things go to pot, itself brings happiness

layer8 5mo ago

> The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do She wouldn’t need to spend that much. You can get a perfectly fine refurbished iPhone 16e for $400.

jimbokun 5mo ago

Sounds like his money was better spent on the trips than spending more on a car that wouldn’t make the trips any better.

duskdozer 5mo ago

Are you sure they were deciding only or even primarily based on cost? I often find myself choosing cheaper options over more expensive ones, because I find them easier or more enjoyable to use. I think with expensive/luxury products, there tends to be more "curation" and opinionation, which can work well if your preferences line up but is a detriment if not. I also think a lot of times more expensive products are just "luxury-hacking," having focused on "building a brand" to the point where they are able to charge more for worse products. Example: Beats headphones adding weights inside just so that they "feel more premium" https://www.news.com.au/technology/home-entertainment/audio/beats-puts-metal-weights-in-its-headphones-to-make-them-feel-more-premium/news-story/90df72745af2c225fa786a8723d07b02 https://www.news.com.au/technology/home-entertainment/audio/...

exceptione 5mo ago

> The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do Your parents are smart. 1000 dollars for a phone is absolute nonsense. A luxury car is something you should be sure you will thoroughly enjoy, because they are a good way to set money on fire. If you do want one, buy it second hand, for it will cost hundreds of dollars per km for the first kilometers.