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Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need
by janice1999 6mo ago
Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.
- happyopossum 6mo agoThey need to keep lane availability up to date - lanes get closed for repair or realignment sometimes and it’d suck to rear-end an 18 ton grader because you don’t have current DOT info…
- ibejoeb 6mo agoI didn't know that. I assumed it was sensor-based. How up-to-date can that really be? That sounds pretty crazy.
- Terr_ 6mo agoAnybody relying on lane-keeping assistance to prevent from slamming into the back of big yellow construction vehicle is doing it wrong, and we should be thankful they didn't hit something else with more victims.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo agoThe problem is that the lane keeping assist freaks out quite often and will steer you into obstacles that are in your lane. I will say though the the new version of the Kia Niro EVs we have is a lot better in that regard - it just kind of gently nudges the steering, it feels more like the car is tramlining a bit. The older versions we had at work would actively try to steer you into other vehicles.
- al_borland 6mo agoMy assumption would be that lane keeping would be about staying in the lines ahead of you, not knowing which lanes are available on the route. Available lanes can change in real-time due to all kinds of reasons.
- SoftTalker 6mo agoI think the term has been used for various capabilities over the years. My friend's 10-year-old Toyota will chirp annoyingly if you drift over a lane line but that's all it does. It doesn't have any ability to steer the car back into the center of the lane. Is that "lane keeping"?
- LamaOfRuin 6mo agoNo, that's "lane departure warning"
- subscribed 6mo agoMine has either off, warn, or warn+adjust (but adjustment is very gentle, more of a nudge). I can imagine it can save a life someone dozing off and drifting.
- RevEng 6mo agoAlso great if you are distracted, perhaps by kids in the back or something happening on the side of the road. Mine has chirped at me a few times. It's basically the electronic version of rumble strips.
- subscribed 6mo agoPrecisely. Same for the warning triangle on the mirrors or warning beep from the blind spot radars, or traction control on my bike. It's a safety feature increasing the safety of myself and everyone around. Not a replacement of anything.
- janice1999 6mo agoIt does say lane "keeping" not lane "changing". I assume it's the safety feature to remain in the lane.
- rationalist 6mo agoI've seen lanes on highways that abruptly end with zero markings or signs - the concrete barriers just force you into the other lane just as you realize what's going on.
- malnourish 6mo agoI would have doubted this had I not experienced it myself on my way home from a movie last night. Not even a construction sign! Let alone something reflective.
- tencentshill 6mo agoI understand how it could disable some features. Hyundai has a GPS-assisted database of highways that are approved for enhanced driver assist (HDA2).
- janice1999 6mo agoI assume by lane keeping assistance they mean the more basic camera based system to warn and potentially correct drivers if they drift over a line without indicating. It makes sense it could also be geofenced to limit it to highways.
- subscribed 6mo agoI think this is exactly how it works (also offline in my Hyundai).
- bri3d 6mo agoI believe the "advanced" LKAS on Rivian only works on highways and relies on an "up to date" geofencing database, so that's the first-order technical reason. And I'm sure they don't exactly prioritize fixing or altering that behavior for the other reason.
- thescriptkiddie 6mo agohow would that even work? even if you could generate accurate maps of lane markings, non-differential gps in not accurate enough
- bri3d 6mo agoI think it's a coarse-grained "this highway has been deemed non-anomalous enough to allow the vision systems to engage," not a fine-grained "we mapped every lane marking."
- mingus88 6mo agoThis is a safety issue. I don’t think there is a “fix” for offline lane assistance that they are sitting on do avoid people from disabling telemetry The gen 1 system uses cameras primarily. It’s not awesome lidar or AI. It needs up to date road information. I’ve been driving down I-5, a major interstate and had it turn off on me, presumably because I hit a dead spot, as conditions were fine and I5 is one of the most popular routes there is. I’m fine with all of this. I prefer that it hand back control to me rather than make me another statistic like Tesla’s system.
- bri3d 6mo agoSure; I think that's a reasonable take too. I have no idea what their TTL requirements are or how frequently they update the ADAS database; if they're on the order of real-time, this seems like a complete technical constraint, if they're on a longer time horizon they might be able to offer manual offline databases. I'm very curious at what level the restrictions operate. With every other manufacturer I've looked at, they're extremely coarse-grained; it's more like "is there a known long-time-horizon hazard in this area that is known to impair the system" than a "we mapped every lane and you need a database." I wonder if your I5 issue was a weeks or months-old construction area, for example. I haven't looked at Rivian much, though, and it could be totally different or extremely fine grained, there's no reason to suggest otherwise either.
- nancyminusone 6mo agoLane keeping assistance is optional on any vehicle. I don't believe there is any current production in which you can't opt out of lane keeping assistance?
- alternatex 6mo agoIsn't it mandatory in the EU if the car supports it? Mandatory as in it's opt-out and will re-enable itself every time you turn on the car.
- martin_a 6mo ago> will re-enable itself every time you turn on the car I think that's only for the speed limit alarms. Wouldn't have that if people would stick to limits, I guess...
- Jolter 6mo agoNot that I’ve seen. Every time I rent a recent model year, they have the lane keeping assist feature but it only works when you enable adaptive cruise control. But maybe that’s what you meant?
- deadbabe 6mo agoIf you need lane keeping assistance you should just accept you need internet connectivity at all times like wtf cars didn’t always have that just drive straight.
- subscribed 6mo agoLOL, you guys really read quite funny if that's the way you decide to comment on that.
- ReptileMan 6mo agoSo you disable both internet and the most annoying feature after touchscreens and start stop. Double win.
- Steeeve 6mo agoYou have a lot of trouble driving your car inside the lanes?
- subscribed 6mo agoLOL, is this really your only thought? Did you also disable ABS and refuse to use smart cruise control?
- ErroneousBosh 6mo agoWhy do you think lane keeping assist is useful? Why do you think smart cruise control is useful? I can't tell if ABS is useful or not. My car has it but I've never used it.
- slumberlust 6mo agoIf you've ever braked hard, you've used ABS. Its what let's you continue to steer under heavy braking. Previous generations were taught to pump the breaks for a similar (much less effective) effect. The fact that you've used it and don't know it proves your point. That's an example of good safety implementation.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo agoI have never needed to brake hard enough for ABS to kick in, or at least not intentionally - I don't count wellying on it hard to seat new brake pads, for instance, nor do I count traction control coming in (which uses ABS) under load on loose slippy surfaces. It's easy to tell when it does - it makes the same BRRRRRP noise it does during the ECU's startup self test from the valve block in the engine bay.
- ezfe 6mo agoToyota advanced LKA (called Traffic Jam Assist) requires mapping subscription to be active as well
- encom 6mo ago>disables lane keeping assistance That is a desirable outcome. I have driven about half a dozen vehicles with this feature, and it has been annoying 100% of the time, and never helpful at all. In the company van I drive (Citroën Berlingo) I have to disable it every time I start the car. The lane keeping gets confused all the time by snow or dirt or when merging onto the motorway, or fucking background radiation - I dunno. It always shocks me when it pulls on the steering wheel. This crap should be forbidden. In the same car I also have to disable the start-stop system so as not to destroy the engine. Aside from that it's a nice enough van for a diesel, but I've been ruined by electrics. In my own car (Nissan Leaf 2021), it stays disabled. But then it shows me a lawyer screen on every start asking me to consent to handing over my first born son etc. Imagine if proper EV's had been invented in 2005 - we would have had some awesome cars.
- traderj0e 6mo ago2005 was peak car interior
- subscribed 6mo agoWell, I love my lane assistance (Hyundai). If I didn't want it though, it's a very easy (and "sticky") toggle in settings.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo agoWhy? What do you love about it?
- subscribed 6mo agoThe answer is quite obvious if you look at what it does and what it's intended to prevent/limit. I encourage you to take a look.
- Terr_ 6mo agoMy car from ~2020 has an intermediate "low" setting which I've been pretty happy with. The default "high" is a frustrating distraction though, jarringly affecting the wheel even when I'm very-well-aware of what's going on and have my own plans for the curves ahead.
- yason 6mo agoLane keeping is often hard to disable and you have to do it each and every drive, so getting that off permanently and putting the car offline then that is an unexpected bonus. Probably the same also applies for the speed limit beeper that partially relies on GPS maps. Taping over the front camera also works.
- retired 6mo agoOn an enthusiast forum someone made a little circuit board that plugs into the control panel of the steering wheel. When you get in the car, you press one button, and that simulates the button press sequence required to turn off the lane keep assist, speed warning and multiple other systems.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo ago> Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance Good. Lane Keeping Assist should be illegal.