6 ms·

I am Dutch and I am glad they finally started to do some open sourcing. I have worked at different governmental bodies and have been promoting open source for s

I am Dutch and I am glad they finally started to do some open sourcing. I have worked at different governmental bodies and have been promoting open source for some time now. But as a simple 'added hands for hire' I never got any response to my pleas. I guess it's typical Dutch that we are one of the last to do so.

oever 6mo ago
The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands. And interestingly, code.overheid.nl runs from a residential ip address.
- hvb2 6mo ago
  > The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands. That's not a fair characterization. The company that runs it might be bought. That's not planning to put it in USA hands
  - moi2388 6mo ago
    It is a fair characterisation. They can access the data, as their data protection officer warned about, it hereby falls under US law, they have to give data when requested, and can shut it down at any time.
    - embedding-shape 6mo ago
      None of those things make "The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands" a fair characterization, it doesn't seem to be true by any measures, the government has no such plans, unless you can point me to some public session/document that shows that this is actually the plan?
      - oever 6mo ago
        Their plan is to do nothing to stop the transfer of the system to a USA company. By doing nothing, they are making this happen.
        embedding-shape 6mo ago
        > Their plan is to do nothing to stop the transfer of the system to a USA company And you have concrete proof that this is indeed the plan, stated by the government as the official position, or this is based on your own extrapolation of rumors? The amount of misinformation that any story related to any European country seems to pull in is crazy, seems to be something about the continent that makes some parts of HN feel blood in their mouth or something.
        oever 6mo ago
        There has not been a single action or communication from government that indicates that they are preventing the ID system from ending up under USA jurisdiction. Parliament has asked government with near unanimity to prevent this from happening. Government has not even acknowledged that this should be prevented.
        embedding-shape 6mo ago
        Right, which I agree, sucks, they should be upfront about what they want to do, regardless of what that is. And ideally their plan should be to try to stop it, I'm with you on this. But the lack of action is not proof that "their plan is to do nothing" nor "the government plans to hand authentication data over to US", those stronger claims require stronger proof, something you seem to be unable to provide.
        fragmede 6mo ago
        C'mon, be nice, they read a Russian propaganda post and are repeating it as a fact they earnestly believe. We can't all see through their lies.
  - oever 6mo ago
    The sale could be stopped by government. The ID system might be moved to a different company. The government could by the part of the company that hosts the ID system. None of these measures are being taken. The result is that the information needed to log in to all the important government systems becomes subject to American jurisdiction. Foreign agents will be able to authenticate themselves as any Dutch citizen and act on their behalf.
- QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
  > And interestingly, code.overheid.nl runs from a residential ip address. That’s not what I’m seeing. IP address is currently 147.181.37.238, which is assigned to ODC-Noord via RIPE. ODC-Noord is a data centre for national government organisations according to https://www.odc-noord.nl/ https://www.odc-noord.nl/
  - oever 6mo ago
    code.overheid.nl points to 62.59.196.156 which is in the Odido ASN. Checked with `host`, `dig` and hosting-checker.net
    - QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
      Darn, I’m on mobile and the tool I used decided to give me details for the base domain overheid.nl when I asked for details about code.overheid.nl :(
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
- sigio 6mo ago
  It's an ODIDO ip, but from the old versatel block. I'm assuming it's a business netblock, not the typical ftth/dsl range.
  - martijnvds 6mo ago
    Traceroute goes through `.ftth.glasoperator.nl` routers though.
embedding-shape 6mo ago
I am living in Spain, and from my point of view, Netherlands is one of the ones doing the most for FOSS in Europe today! It sees much faster real-world adoption of FOSS in ministries and municipalities than other countries, the government seems eager to fund FOSS (again, compared to other countries) and generally be welcoming to the ecosystem. Browsing around, there seems to be lots of FOSS projects funded by money coming from the Dutch state. Kind of interesting how the perspective is so different from the inside! Maybe it's the typical "the grass is always greener..."?
- michelb 6mo ago
  Not sure. I think Germany and France are way ahead?
  - embedding-shape 6mo ago
    Yeah, probably if you asked me for "Top 3 countries for FOSS in Europe" I'd pretty much say France, Germany and Netherlands, hence me saying "is one of the ones" :) Compared to the rest of the countries, those three probably do way more than all the rest together.
  - rglullis 6mo ago
    NLNet is funding open source projects to the tune of tens of millions of euros per year, and it is Dutch.
    - weinzierl 6mo ago
      NLnet (the foundation) is Dutch, but as far as I know NLnet Labs (which does the work and spends the money) is at least partially funded by Germany (through the Sovereign Tech Fund). I don't have the numbers at hand and cannot dig them up right now. If anyone knows the extent of participation of each country that'd be definitely interesting for others too.
      - embedding-shape 6mo ago
sigio 6mo ago
Also worked for the dutch government for the last 5 years. All or most of the projects we did have been open-sourced on github over the years. Currently there are plans to move them to code.overheid.nl I think, though I no longer work there currently. (I was the github org-admin for the department)

oever 6mo ago

The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands. And interestingly, code.overheid.nl runs from a residential ip address.

hvb2 6mo ago
> The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands. That's not a fair characterization. The company that runs it might be bought. That's not planning to put it in USA hands
- moi2388 6mo ago
  It is a fair characterisation. They can access the data, as their data protection officer warned about, it hereby falls under US law, they have to give data when requested, and can shut it down at any time.
  - embedding-shape 6mo ago
    None of those things make "The government still plans to place the authentication system of all Dutch citizens in USA hands" a fair characterization, it doesn't seem to be true by any measures, the government has no such plans, unless you can point me to some public session/document that shows that this is actually the plan?
    - oever 6mo ago
      Their plan is to do nothing to stop the transfer of the system to a USA company. By doing nothing, they are making this happen.
      - embedding-shape 6mo ago
        > Their plan is to do nothing to stop the transfer of the system to a USA company And you have concrete proof that this is indeed the plan, stated by the government as the official position, or this is based on your own extrapolation of rumors? The amount of misinformation that any story related to any European country seems to pull in is crazy, seems to be something about the continent that makes some parts of HN feel blood in their mouth or something.
        oever 6mo ago
        There has not been a single action or communication from government that indicates that they are preventing the ID system from ending up under USA jurisdiction. Parliament has asked government with near unanimity to prevent this from happening. Government has not even acknowledged that this should be prevented.
        embedding-shape 6mo ago
        Right, which I agree, sucks, they should be upfront about what they want to do, regardless of what that is. And ideally their plan should be to try to stop it, I'm with you on this. But the lack of action is not proof that "their plan is to do nothing" nor "the government plans to hand authentication data over to US", those stronger claims require stronger proof, something you seem to be unable to provide.
        fragmede 6mo ago
        C'mon, be nice, they read a Russian propaganda post and are repeating it as a fact they earnestly believe. We can't all see through their lies.
- oever 6mo ago
  The sale could be stopped by government. The ID system might be moved to a different company. The government could by the part of the company that hosts the ID system. None of these measures are being taken. The result is that the information needed to log in to all the important government systems becomes subject to American jurisdiction. Foreign agents will be able to authenticate themselves as any Dutch citizen and act on their behalf.
QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
> And interestingly, code.overheid.nl runs from a residential ip address. That’s not what I’m seeing. IP address is currently 147.181.37.238, which is assigned to ODC-Noord via RIPE. ODC-Noord is a data centre for national government organisations according to https://www.odc-noord.nl/ https://www.odc-noord.nl/
- oever 6mo ago
  code.overheid.nl points to 62.59.196.156 which is in the Odido ASN. Checked with `host`, `dig` and hosting-checker.net
  - QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
    Darn, I’m on mobile and the tool I used decided to give me details for the base domain overheid.nl when I asked for details about code.overheid.nl :(
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
sigio 6mo ago
It's an ODIDO ip, but from the old versatel block. I'm assuming it's a business netblock, not the typical ftth/dsl range.
- martijnvds 6mo ago
  Traceroute goes through `.ftth.glasoperator.nl` routers though.

embedding-shape 6mo ago

I am living in Spain, and from my point of view, Netherlands is one of the ones doing the most for FOSS in Europe today! It sees much faster real-world adoption of FOSS in ministries and municipalities than other countries, the government seems eager to fund FOSS (again, compared to other countries) and generally be welcoming to the ecosystem. Browsing around, there seems to be lots of FOSS projects funded by money coming from the Dutch state. Kind of interesting how the perspective is so different from the inside! Maybe it's the typical "the grass is always greener..."?

michelb 6mo ago
Not sure. I think Germany and France are way ahead?
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Yeah, probably if you asked me for "Top 3 countries for FOSS in Europe" I'd pretty much say France, Germany and Netherlands, hence me saying "is one of the ones" :) Compared to the rest of the countries, those three probably do way more than all the rest together.
- rglullis 6mo ago
  NLNet is funding open source projects to the tune of tens of millions of euros per year, and it is Dutch.
  - weinzierl 6mo ago
    NLnet (the foundation) is Dutch, but as far as I know NLnet Labs (which does the work and spends the money) is at least partially funded by Germany (through the Sovereign Tech Fund). I don't have the numbers at hand and cannot dig them up right now. If anyone knows the extent of participation of each country that'd be definitely interesting for others too.
    - embedding-shape 6mo ago

sigio 6mo ago

Also worked for the dutch government for the last 5 years. All or most of the projects we did have been open-sourced on github over the years. Currently there are plans to move them to code.overheid.nl I think, though I no longer work there currently. (I was the github org-admin for the department)