6 ms·

This is, respectfully, corporate propaganda. Consumers buy the vehicles that are available and advertised. It's in the best interest of manufacturers to convinc

by post-it 6mo ago

This is, respectfully, corporate propaganda. Consumers buy the vehicles that are available and advertised. It's in the best interest of manufacturers to convince/compel consumers to buy larger, more expensive vehicles with higher margins, and that's exactly what they're doing.

ndisn 6mo ago
You can’t convince (almost all) consumers to spend money on something that they do not want.
- post-it 6mo ago
  Of course you can. And for the rest, you just discontinue the product they want so they have no choice.
- tyre 6mo ago
  You can, but it’s easier to convince them to want something that they don’t need or is actively harmful.
- adrianN 6mo ago
  You can make them want things. Ad money is what powers some of the most successful companies.
- iso1631 6mo ago
  That's the entire point of the trillion dollar advertising industry
- sneak 6mo ago
  Car insurance. Low flow showerheads. Fuel-inefficient vehicles. Electric dryers. Electric stoves. Appliances that don’t last. Lawn care. Taxes. Social Security. The list is gigantic. Your claim could not be more false.
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    People want car insurance because it's a law, low-flow showerheads if water is expensive, and electric appliances if gas is expensive or outlawed. And some want fuel-inefficient vehicles because they like them and gasoline isn't very expensive, while plenty of other people opt for MPG.
nradov 6mo ago
Bullshit. There are many competing auto manufacturers. No one is compelled to buy larger, more expensive vehicles. There are smaller, cheap vehicles available to those who want them. If I want a little penalty box like a Hyundai Elantra or Nissan Sentra the local dealers have base models in stock and ready to sell today. Larger vehicles are more comfortable, safe, and practical (for anyone who doesn't need to worry about parking issues). It doesn't take advertising to convince consumers about that, it's just reality.
- post-it 6mo ago
  A Hyundai Elantra of today is significantly bigger than it was ten years ago. It also used to be the second-tier model above the Accent, which was discontinued. Ditto with the Sentra and the Versa. This is my point exactly.
- jagraff 6mo ago
  Large vehicles are safer for the occupants of the vehicle, however they do increase danger for pedestrians and drivers of other vehicles in a collision. There is a reasonable argument that reducing vehicle size would save lives overall
  - sneak 6mo ago
    This is a myth. Larger vehicles are not safer for their occupants; they merely feel that way.
    - Supermancho 6mo ago
      > This is a myth. Larger vehicles are not safer for their occupants; they merely feel that way. I'm pretty sure it's not, because physics. A tank is safer than a bike for the poilot, when there is a collision. This data is a little muddled, but follows common sense. Large SUVs and Pickups: These vehicles have the lowest occupant fatality rates, averaging 14 deaths per million registered vehicles for SUVs compared to 48 per million for sedans. Large luxury SUVs often register statistically zero deaths in specific three-year studies.
stickfigure 6mo ago
If gasoline is more expensive, customers will demand more efficient vehicles. We aren't mindless zombies buying whatever we see on TV. I'm old enough to remember when Japanese small cars practically took over the market in the 70s and 80s due to gas price shocks. It can happen again.
- debo_ 6mo ago
  Tell that to the literal constant flow of old men I see driving pristine F150s in the metropolitan center of the Canadian city I live in.
  - asa400 6mo ago
    They probably won't buy Honda Civics, but they (or their children, more realistically) might buy the electric equivalent of an F150 if the market produces one that can fulfill what they perceive their needs to be. I just bought a (small, hybrid) truck because I need to do some truck stuff. I 100% would have bought an electric if the market produced one with comparable capability and competitive price, but we're not there yet, and I don't have Rivian money (yet! lol maybe someday). My point being: there is still a huge demand for trucks from both a capability and culture standpoint, and very little supply of a cost-comparable product that doesn't take gas or diesel. Rivian is around double what most people want to pay, and the F150 Lightning was marketed poorly and had bad towing/hauling range compared to gas/diesel equivalents. I'm not here to defend "truck culture" but I do believe that if you offer people a better product, they will figure it out and buy it. An electric truck with 400+ miles of towing range, an onboard 2kW+ inverter, 500 ft-lbs of torque, and fast charging for the same price as a comparable gas F150 will sell. Unfortunately the battery energy density and EV supply chain economies of scale aren't there yet in North America.
    - United857 6mo ago
      U u u
- Teever 6mo ago
  > We aren't mindless zombies buying whatever we see on TV. But we are. I don't want to turn this into a political slap fight but it became apparent to me the extent in which people are swayed by advertising when I read an article that talked about how one party in the US was concerned that the other was going to win an important seat becase the other party had done a recent spending surge on ads in last few days before election day and they were concerned that they couldn't match it. That article right there forever changed my view of the average person on the street. In a highly polarized campaign and political environment with months to years of knowing who the candidates and policies are and they can still be swayed by millions in TV and radio ads? Like it sounds like these people could literally be on their way to vote for a candidate and then switch their mind at the last second because they hear an ad on the radio as they're pulling into the polling station. That's absurd -- but it's real. People are completely enthralled by advertisements to the point where they'll buy a stupid truck that they can't fit anywhere, that they need a ladder to climb into, that has terrible sight lines, simply because advertising tells them to.
amluto 6mo ago
How many CAFE compliant “light trucks” do you see around? CAFE is a great example of a well-meaning regulation failing because the people who developed and approved it didn’t think through the obvious consequences.
- ambicapter 6mo ago
  "It's your fault you didn't expressly disallow what I ended up doing to get around what you asked me not to do"
  - readthenotes1 6mo ago
    If you make a game someone's going to play it. Allowing light trucks to turn the SUVs and replace sedans is not an "unintended consequence"--it's either stupidity or graft (not xor). There are several laws that are "wtf -- is this the best we can do?"
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- anvuong 6mo ago
  Well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
traderj0e 6mo ago
How can that be if they all offer extensive lines of small and efficient cars that a good number of people drive? Besides, collusion doesn't seem likely given the amount of foreign competition. The majority of Americans have made it clear that they want bigger autos, at least with the usual gas prices. Sorry if that's corp propaganda. Separately I've heard emissions laws blamed for large sedans losing to small SUVs and trucks due to double standards, but I doubt it would've made a difference, even though I personally prefer large sedans.
- scq 6mo ago
  Ford no longer makes traditional passenger cars. They now only sell SUVs, trucks, and sports cars. You can see this if you go to https://shop.ford.com/showroom/ https://shop.ford.com/showroom/ and select sedan or hatchback in the left filters. No results.
  - traderj0e 5mo ago
    It's a small exception that wasn't selling well before anyway. Even the police fleets switched to SUVs.

by post-it 6mo ago

ndisn 6mo ago

You can’t convince (almost all) consumers to spend money on something that they do not want.

post-it 6mo ago
Of course you can. And for the rest, you just discontinue the product they want so they have no choice.
tyre 6mo ago
You can, but it’s easier to convince them to want something that they don’t need or is actively harmful.
adrianN 6mo ago
You can make them want things. Ad money is what powers some of the most successful companies.
iso1631 6mo ago
That's the entire point of the trillion dollar advertising industry
sneak 6mo ago
Car insurance. Low flow showerheads. Fuel-inefficient vehicles. Electric dryers. Electric stoves. Appliances that don’t last. Lawn care. Taxes. Social Security. The list is gigantic. Your claim could not be more false.
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  People want car insurance because it's a law, low-flow showerheads if water is expensive, and electric appliances if gas is expensive or outlawed. And some want fuel-inefficient vehicles because they like them and gasoline isn't very expensive, while plenty of other people opt for MPG.

nradov 6mo ago

Bullshit. There are many competing auto manufacturers. No one is compelled to buy larger, more expensive vehicles. There are smaller, cheap vehicles available to those who want them. If I want a little penalty box like a Hyundai Elantra or Nissan Sentra the local dealers have base models in stock and ready to sell today. Larger vehicles are more comfortable, safe, and practical (for anyone who doesn't need to worry about parking issues). It doesn't take advertising to convince consumers about that, it's just reality.

post-it 6mo ago
A Hyundai Elantra of today is significantly bigger than it was ten years ago. It also used to be the second-tier model above the Accent, which was discontinued. Ditto with the Sentra and the Versa. This is my point exactly.
jagraff 6mo ago
Large vehicles are safer for the occupants of the vehicle, however they do increase danger for pedestrians and drivers of other vehicles in a collision. There is a reasonable argument that reducing vehicle size would save lives overall
- sneak 6mo ago
  This is a myth. Larger vehicles are not safer for their occupants; they merely feel that way.
  - Supermancho 6mo ago
    > This is a myth. Larger vehicles are not safer for their occupants; they merely feel that way. I'm pretty sure it's not, because physics. A tank is safer than a bike for the poilot, when there is a collision. This data is a little muddled, but follows common sense. Large SUVs and Pickups: These vehicles have the lowest occupant fatality rates, averaging 14 deaths per million registered vehicles for SUVs compared to 48 per million for sedans. Large luxury SUVs often register statistically zero deaths in specific three-year studies.

stickfigure 6mo ago

If gasoline is more expensive, customers will demand more efficient vehicles. We aren't mindless zombies buying whatever we see on TV. I'm old enough to remember when Japanese small cars practically took over the market in the 70s and 80s due to gas price shocks. It can happen again.

debo_ 6mo ago
Tell that to the literal constant flow of old men I see driving pristine F150s in the metropolitan center of the Canadian city I live in.
- asa400 6mo ago
  They probably won't buy Honda Civics, but they (or their children, more realistically) might buy the electric equivalent of an F150 if the market produces one that can fulfill what they perceive their needs to be. I just bought a (small, hybrid) truck because I need to do some truck stuff. I 100% would have bought an electric if the market produced one with comparable capability and competitive price, but we're not there yet, and I don't have Rivian money (yet! lol maybe someday). My point being: there is still a huge demand for trucks from both a capability and culture standpoint, and very little supply of a cost-comparable product that doesn't take gas or diesel. Rivian is around double what most people want to pay, and the F150 Lightning was marketed poorly and had bad towing/hauling range compared to gas/diesel equivalents. I'm not here to defend "truck culture" but I do believe that if you offer people a better product, they will figure it out and buy it. An electric truck with 400+ miles of towing range, an onboard 2kW+ inverter, 500 ft-lbs of torque, and fast charging for the same price as a comparable gas F150 will sell. Unfortunately the battery energy density and EV supply chain economies of scale aren't there yet in North America.
  - United857 6mo ago
    U u u
Teever 6mo ago
> We aren't mindless zombies buying whatever we see on TV. But we are. I don't want to turn this into a political slap fight but it became apparent to me the extent in which people are swayed by advertising when I read an article that talked about how one party in the US was concerned that the other was going to win an important seat becase the other party had done a recent spending surge on ads in last few days before election day and they were concerned that they couldn't match it. That article right there forever changed my view of the average person on the street. In a highly polarized campaign and political environment with months to years of knowing who the candidates and policies are and they can still be swayed by millions in TV and radio ads? Like it sounds like these people could literally be on their way to vote for a candidate and then switch their mind at the last second because they hear an ad on the radio as they're pulling into the polling station. That's absurd -- but it's real. People are completely enthralled by advertisements to the point where they'll buy a stupid truck that they can't fit anywhere, that they need a ladder to climb into, that has terrible sight lines, simply because advertising tells them to.

amluto 6mo ago

How many CAFE compliant “light trucks” do you see around? CAFE is a great example of a well-meaning regulation failing because the people who developed and approved it didn’t think through the obvious consequences.

ambicapter 6mo ago
"It's your fault you didn't expressly disallow what I ended up doing to get around what you asked me not to do"
- readthenotes1 6mo ago
  If you make a game someone's going to play it. Allowing light trucks to turn the SUVs and replace sedans is not an "unintended consequence"--it's either stupidity or graft (not xor). There are several laws that are "wtf -- is this the best we can do?"
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
anvuong 6mo ago
Well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

traderj0e 6mo ago

How can that be if they all offer extensive lines of small and efficient cars that a good number of people drive? Besides, collusion doesn't seem likely given the amount of foreign competition. The majority of Americans have made it clear that they want bigger autos, at least with the usual gas prices. Sorry if that's corp propaganda. Separately I've heard emissions laws blamed for large sedans losing to small SUVs and trucks due to double standards, but I doubt it would've made a difference, even though I personally prefer large sedans.

scq 6mo ago
Ford no longer makes traditional passenger cars. They now only sell SUVs, trucks, and sports cars. You can see this if you go to https://shop.ford.com/showroom/ https://shop.ford.com/showroom/ and select sedan or hatchback in the left filters. No results.
- traderj0e 5mo ago
  It's a small exception that wasn't selling well before anyway. Even the police fleets switched to SUVs.