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Somehow I think there is a real possibility more will happen. Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of
by giwook 6mo ago
Somehow I think there is a real possibility more will happen.
Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes.
I don't claim to know what's going on outside of what's being reported, but I'm reminded of other individuals who have "stepped out of line" (as determined by Beijing) and were also either barred from the country or mysteriously disappeared for weeks or months at a time only to randomly reappear at some point singing a different tune.
- soperj 6mo ago> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. Feels like Guantanamo Bay all over again.
- EA-3167 6mo agoIn what conceivable way?
- T-A 6mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residential_Surveillance_at_a_Designated_Location https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residential_Surveillance_at_a_...
- EA-3167 6mo agoThis seems like, to be very very VERY generous as per the guidelines, a case of limited superficial similarities being blown out of proportion. Assuming the best of intentions.
- T-A 6mo agoWikipedia's description of RSDL does not go into gory details. They are not hard to look up though. See e.g. https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/michael-caster-on-chinas-forced-disappearances/ https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/michael-caster-on-chinas-for...
- EA-3167 6mo agoDo you really believe that "activists" and suspected criminals are given the same treatment as some entrepreneurs who just lost their shirts? This feels like an excuse to bring up something that's fundamentally unrelated to the subject at hand, because there are a dozen closer and more useful comparisons to make than Gitmo. For example how Japan can hold and question people without access to a lawyer, outside of police stations.
- soperj 6mo agoIndefinite detention without charges. Sounds exactly the same.
- cermicelli 6mo ago[flagged]
- ahmadyan 6mo ago> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. Pure speculation on my part, but i would be surprised if China didn't have our equivalent of export control laws, not difficult to fabricate a crime and pin it on founders.
- refulgentis 6mo agoYr parent is new to standard China legal mechanisms and you pivoted off of that to invent a chain of stuff that isn’t real. Are they unfamiliar to us? Yes. But it’s worth speaking to whether the speculation is rational.
- ericmay 6mo agoThey do have export control laws and such, but based on current and past behavior China’s Communist Party doesn’t need those laws to disappear people or create crimes and then make people guilty of said crimes. Worth mentioning though that this is not how America functions, nor our rule of law.
- wahnfrieden 6mo agoWhat do you make of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47927544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47927544
- ericmay 6mo agoNot much, none of those cases from the US resulted in disappearing the founders. The US is a nation of laws, no matter how imperfect. Stark contrast to the CCP.
- rvnx 6mo agoAt the end of the day, the process itself, years of investigation, millions in legal fees, frozen assets, destroyed careers is often the punishment regardless of whether charges stick or convictions hold up. Not sure we can give any lessons to the world.
- guywithahat 6mo ago> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes I don't think it's actually that uncommon in China, especially with high profile people. To China's credit, we often bar people from leaving the country if they're charged with a crime but not convicted of anything. While it's certainly scary and authoritarian, I think it's par for the course in China. Most companies have some amount of CCP representation in them, either on the board or some level of management.
- dublinstats 6mo agoShouldn't every country be barring people from leaving the country if they've been charged with a crime? At least if there's a good chance they will flee justice. This seems like a side issue from the question of whether the charges are legitimate.
- mothballed 6mo agoIt's extremely common even without a crime. US block or cancel people with extremely small child support debts (I think like $1000 which is a single missed payment for middle class person) and people with moderate tax debts (I think about $25,000) for instance from getting a passport.
- skippyboxedhero 6mo agoYes, everyone country does this. You can be barred from travel in a wide range of other circumstances in many other countries. Every person has a nationalistic solipsism that renders them incapable of understanding events that occur outside of their own country. China and the US are two countries where this tends to be most severe, people outside these countries seem to believe they possess a profound and innate understanding of events there that renders them capable of offering a complete opinion (and, in reality, that opinion will almost always be entirely self-referential, 20% of the comments on this thread seem to be talking about the US). At a high-level, the characterization of China as a lawless dictatorship is undermined somewhat by the higher levels of crime in almost every other country. You will see this interpretation of China from people in the US who live in places where there are constant, visible signs of crime.
- cineticdaffodil 6mo agoUsually they just threaten the family that stayed in china to enforce compliance. As in visit by police and do a video call. Good old socialist playbook. Guess the CEOs were to workaholic ti be threatened with the mafia methods.
- observationist 6mo ago>>> Barring them from leaving the country feels a bit sinister for people who haven't been accused of committing any crimes. This is standard operating procedure for the CCP. They are a truly ruthless, sinister group who have no scruples about ensuring compliance and using leverage on behalf of Chinese interests. Just look at what happened to Jack Ma.
- xtracto 6mo agoGemini, Give me examples of people that the US has retained passports pending investigations It's standard procedure in every country for some investigations.
- nutjob2 6mo agoThis is false equivalence. Outside of immigration issues, you can only be made to surrender your passport if you have been arrested and indicted for a crime, as a part of bail. That power can only be granted by a judge. China arbitrarily traps people in China without any such thing or any due process whatsoever.
- andersonpico 6mo ago> China arbitrarily traps people in China without any such thing or any due process whatsoever. What makes you think there's no legal process for blocking nationals from leaving China?It's a very common instrument and in a bunch of countries it's an administrative measure with even less scrutinity than a judicial mandate. Do you consider France or the UK to be a countries without rule of law or due process? But to the point in the US, for example, the government can just issue a warrant for you as a material witness or flag your passport and then you can't leave; these are hardly due processes and more like legal workarounds to do exactly the same thing; the US has disappeared plenty of people in much more sinister ways than that, however, so I agree that there's no equivalence here: the US is worse.
- giwook 6mo ago
- conradev 6mo agoJack Ma comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ma#During_tech_crackdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ma#During_tech_crackdown Ma's voting rights were reduced from 50% to 6%.