3 ms·

To some extent I'd say it is indeed reasonable. I had observed the effect for a while: if I walked away from a session I noticed that my next prompt would chew

by jghn 6mo ago

To some extent I'd say it is indeed reasonable. I had observed the effect for a while: if I walked away from a session I noticed that my next prompt would chew up a bunch of context. And that led me to do some digging, at which point I discovered their prompt caching. So while I'd agree with your sarcasm that expecting users to be experts of the system is a big ask, where I disagree with you is that users should be curious and actively attempting to understand how it works around them. Given that the tooling changes often, this is an endless job.

abustamam 6mo ago
> users should be curious and actively attempting to understand how it works Have you ever talked with users? > this is an endless job Indeed. If we spend all our time learning what changed with all our tooling when it changes without proper documentation then we spend all our working lives keeping up instead of doing our actual jobs.
- Octoth0rpe 6mo ago
  There are general users of the average SaaS, and there are claude code users. There's no doubt in my mind that our expectations should be somewhat higher for CC users re: memory. I'm personally not completely convinced that cache eviction should be part of their thought process while using CC, but it's not _that_ much of a stretch.
  - abustamam 6mo ago
    Personally I've never thought about cache eviction as it pertains to CC. It's just not something that I ever needed to think about. Maybe I'm just not a power user but I just use the product the way I want to and it just works.
  - troupo 6mo ago
    Anthropic literally advertises long sessions, 1M context, high reasoning etc. And then their vibe-coders tell us that we are to blame for using the product exactly as advertised: https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 while silently changing how the product works. Please stop defending hapless innocent corporations.
    - jghn 6mo ago
      This oversells how obfuscated it is. I'm far from a power user, and the opposite of a vibe coder. Yet I noticed the effect on my own just from general usage. If I can do it, anyone can do it.
      - taormina 6mo ago
        Listen, no one cares if you think you’re smart for seeing through the lies of their marketing team. You’re being intentionally obtuse.
        jghn 6mo ago
        My point is the opposite. I don't think my observation was smart, and I'm surprised to so many people here, a venue with a lot of people who use this stuff far more than I do, think it wasn't an easy to grok thing.
        taormina 6mo ago
        You’re still intentionally missing the point. Everyone knows they are lying. It doesn’t excuse the lies!
        jghn 6mo ago
        I’m not. Why would anyone believe marketing speak for any product? One should always assume that at best they’re fluffing their product up and more likely that they’re telling straight up lies
        troupo 6mo ago
        1. False advertisement is a thing, to the point there are laws against it 2. They were caught blatantly lying, and you're literally telling everyone it's the users' fault for not digging into the black box that is Claude Code (and more so Anthropic's servers) and figuring its behavior for themselves. A behavior that suddenly changed on a March day [1] and which previously very few people ever needed to investigate. [1] https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290 https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290
  - redsocksfan45 6mo ago
    [dead]
- jghn 6mo ago
  > Have you ever talked with users? I believe if one were to read my post it'd have been clear that I *am* a user. This *is* "hacker" news after all. I think it's a safe assumption that people sitting here discussing CC are an inquisitive sort who want to understand what's under the hood of their tools and are likely to put in some extra time to figure it out.
  - abustamam 6mo ago
    We're inquisitive but at the end of the day many of us just want to get our work done. If it's a toy project, sure. Tinker away, dissect away. When my boss is breathing down my neck on why a feature is taking so long? No time for inquiries.
trinsic2 6mo ago
Agreed. systems work the way they work. Its up to the user to determining what those limitations are. I don't like the concept of molding software based on every expectation a user has. Sometimes that expectation is unwarranted. You can see this in game development. Regardless of expressed criticism, sometimes gamers don't know what they want or what they need. A game should be developed by the design goals of the team, not cater to every whim the player base wants. We have seen were that can go.

by jghn 6mo ago

abustamam 6mo ago

> users should be curious and actively attempting to understand how it works Have you ever talked with users? > this is an endless job Indeed. If we spend all our time learning what changed with all our tooling when it changes without proper documentation then we spend all our working lives keeping up instead of doing our actual jobs.

Octoth0rpe 6mo ago
There are general users of the average SaaS, and there are claude code users. There's no doubt in my mind that our expectations should be somewhat higher for CC users re: memory. I'm personally not completely convinced that cache eviction should be part of their thought process while using CC, but it's not _that_ much of a stretch.
- abustamam 6mo ago
  Personally I've never thought about cache eviction as it pertains to CC. It's just not something that I ever needed to think about. Maybe I'm just not a power user but I just use the product the way I want to and it just works.
- troupo 6mo ago
  Anthropic literally advertises long sessions, 1M context, high reasoning etc. And then their vibe-coders tell us that we are to blame for using the product exactly as advertised: https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 while silently changing how the product works. Please stop defending hapless innocent corporations.
  - jghn 6mo ago
    This oversells how obfuscated it is. I'm far from a power user, and the opposite of a vibe coder. Yet I noticed the effect on my own just from general usage. If I can do it, anyone can do it.
    - taormina 6mo ago
      Listen, no one cares if you think you’re smart for seeing through the lies of their marketing team. You’re being intentionally obtuse.
      - jghn 6mo ago
        My point is the opposite. I don't think my observation was smart, and I'm surprised to so many people here, a venue with a lot of people who use this stuff far more than I do, think it wasn't an easy to grok thing.
        taormina 6mo ago
        You’re still intentionally missing the point. Everyone knows they are lying. It doesn’t excuse the lies!
        jghn 6mo ago
        I’m not. Why would anyone believe marketing speak for any product? One should always assume that at best they’re fluffing their product up and more likely that they’re telling straight up lies
        troupo 6mo ago
        1. False advertisement is a thing, to the point there are laws against it 2. They were caught blatantly lying, and you're literally telling everyone it's the users' fault for not digging into the black box that is Claude Code (and more so Anthropic's servers) and figuring its behavior for themselves. A behavior that suddenly changed on a March day [1] and which previously very few people ever needed to investigate. [1] https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290 https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago
  [dead]
jghn 6mo ago
> Have you ever talked with users? I believe if one were to read my post it'd have been clear that I *am* a user. This *is* "hacker" news after all. I think it's a safe assumption that people sitting here discussing CC are an inquisitive sort who want to understand what's under the hood of their tools and are likely to put in some extra time to figure it out.
- abustamam 6mo ago
  We're inquisitive but at the end of the day many of us just want to get our work done. If it's a toy project, sure. Tinker away, dissect away. When my boss is breathing down my neck on why a feature is taking so long? No time for inquiries.

trinsic2 6mo ago

Agreed. systems work the way they work. Its up to the user to determining what those limitations are. I don't like the concept of molding software based on every expectation a user has. Sometimes that expectation is unwarranted. You can see this in game development. Regardless of expressed criticism, sometimes gamers don't know what they want or what they need. A game should be developed by the design goals of the team, not cater to every whim the player base wants. We have seen were that can go.