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As an occasional visitor to the US from England I was surprised by how expensive it's become. The US always used to seem cheaper than England I think largely be
by tim333 6mo ago
As an occasional visitor to the US from England I was surprised by how expensive it's become. The US always used to seem cheaper than England I think largely because the government got out of the way so houses were cheap because you could build them, cars were cheap because you could import them, food was cheap because you could just grow stuff in huge fields whereas in England much of that was restricted.
On my trip to Austin a couple of years ago it'd got really expensive. Even food where normally you could walk in a shop and get something for not much, a basic sandwich started from $8 and when I came out some lady followed me and said could she have some she was hungry so I gave her half and really was hungry. I've never really had that in the other fifty countries I've visited including in Africa. In London you get Roma sitting around with 'hungry' signs but they are all fat and well fed and want cash. It's odd.
- nephihaha 6mo agoThe UK's the same. The lockdown was a major driver of this.
- fakedang 6mo agoCan say from experience volunteering, I was mighty surprised when literally children were being rendered hungry and homeless in London during Covid.
- websap 6mo agoThe UK (at least London) is cheaper than Seattle, and far cheaper than NYC.
- cguess 6mo agoThat's going to depend heavily on where you live in Seattle or NYC. London has some of the most expensive real estate in the world and I can say from experience that you get much more of an apartment for your money in NYC or Seattle than in London (lived in all three).
- nephihaha 6mo agoPrices have gone skyhigh since lockdown. In fact, it's funny seeing the British media going on about "Cost of Living crisis" all the time, but failing to acknowledge one of the most obvious causes of it. I predicted a massive price hike way back in the summer of 2020, because somehow we were going to have to pay for the lockdown, and many people didn't believe me. Now it's here, people are trying to tell me it was too long ago, even though economics can run in ten or twenty year cycles.
- cvoss 6mo agoThe US has an enormous land area and the cost of living varies dramatically across it. Intense pockets develop where the high paying jobs are, and everyone wants to cram in there to compete for those jobs, and then they're competing for the housing there, so the prices skyrocket, so the jobs have to pay higher still. Wealthy as the average person may be, the poverty slope is very steep in such places. The SF / Bay Area is the paradigmatic example of this. But when COVID hit, the main attractor of the Bay Area vanished overnight: you didn't have to live there to work those jobs. There was a mass exodus to cheaper places. Texas was at the top of the list of destinations. Austin, though decidedly not the rest of Texas, has a similar culture to SF and so was a natural and comfortable landing spot. So the pressure relief valve on SF is a source of pressure on Austin. But Austin was already suffering growing pains before COVID. But, all that said, its probably not wise to generalize an experience about Austin to an idea about the US as a whole. At best, you might generalize it to ideas about large US cities.
- oooyay 6mo agoI'm not sure this is really true anymore and it ignores the reality on the ground of "cheap areas". Often times cheap areas are underserved in a way that once you require or depend on a service that is baked into other higher cost of living areas your life becomes much more expensive than if you'd simply lived in a high cost of living area. There are many examples of this but hospitals in rural areas are one of my favorite examples. There used to be many of these but many people didn't realize they were all (or mostly) subsidized capital ventures. Many of them are closing now that the subsidy has ended. So, is that county land cheap? Yes, but when you have an incident where time matters your likelihood of being cooked goes up precipitously.
- littlexsparkee 6mo agoDitto water infrastructure - failures and lack of ability to maintain/upgrade.
- jofla_net 6mo agoFood deserts too, i was surprised to learn.
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- crooked-v 6mo agoA big part of it is that literally almost every major US city has a self-inflicted housing shortage (https://www.fanniemae.com/research-and-insights/perspectives/us-housing-shortage https://www.fanniemae.com/research-and-insights/perspectives...), which then has cascading effects on every other part of cost of living.
- uberstuber 6mo agosadly Austin is one of the best US cities at allowing new housing development
- crooked-v 6mo agoThat's very true, but it's still subject to demand overflow from other cities where a lot of people can't even hope to afford anything.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 6mo agoJust speculation: The houses got expensive because homeowners wanted housing to be an investment, so they voted for laws that make it harder to build or densify housing. Cars are expensive because the government puts tariffs on perfectly good imports to protect the American car companies. The American car companies produce garbage, and even the electric car companies like Tesla and Rivian are producing super-high-tech luxury land yachts. The government incentives are also captured to produce huge trucks, and many states don't have regular inspections, so lifted trucks are common. The companies don't want to build and sell small cars because the perception is that a small car is going to get pancaked in a crash with a bigger, heavier car. Gas prices don't matter because the government artificially suppresses them, sometimes with war. Corn and dairy are cheap because the government subsidizes them at the behest of the corn and dairy lobbies, which use small good ol' boy farmers who don't even exist as their marketing. A lot of the corn goes to ethanol for fuel, even though it's a crappy fuel and an acre of solar panels results in many more miles of EV driving than the same acre of corn ethanol. So you can also get a cheap soda and a cheap cheese pizza, but a lot of the food pipeline is captured by seed monopolies and middle-men. Somehow milk became a bit of a right-wing meme, and it's basically a naturally-occurring dessert, so people love milk even though it's not good for you and not a good way to get nutrients. > Even food where normally you could walk in a shop You aren't supposed to walk in America. You're supposed to drive. Don't get me started lol
- seniorThrowaway 6mo agoHousing being expensive because of laws and zoning that constrain it's supply is often touted, but there is good academic research that that isn't the case. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zfsw4iotsn3nqs8vhu8kb/LMW-FAQ2025.pdf?rlkey=2v4mo7cuey4qz4wg031tw4eoc&e=6&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zfsw4iotsn3nqs8vhu8kb/LMW-FAQ...
- verteu 6mo agoThat's not the academic consensus. It's a non-peer-reviewed working paper that contradicts the academic consensus. The authors are clear about this: "The standard view of housing markets holds that differences in the flexibility of local housing supply - shaped by factors like geography and regulation - explain differences in how house price and quantity growth respond to rising demand across U.S. cities... Our conclusions challenge the prevailing view of local housing and labor markets" https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w33576/w33576.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w33576/w335... edit: I do think it's a good paper!
- hn_throwaway_99 6mo agoAustin prices absolutely exploded from about 2010 to 2022. A huge part of that was housing, and then just before the pandemic Austin became sort of a weird "meme stock" ("Elon Musk is moving there!", "Joe Rogan is moving there") where its popular vision far outstripped its actual reality. I remember travelling around 2018 or so and telling people I was from Austin, and nearly every time I got a "Oh cool, I've heard that's such an awesome city" in response, which was far different a response I'd get in like 2005 or so. I mean, I like Austin, but we also had 2 months straight of 105+ degree weather a few years ago... Like the article states, when housing goes up everywhere, it means that even the lowest wage workers need to be paid a lot more to survive, so the reason basic sandwiches are so expensive there is that entry level pay is now about $25/hr. The other issue you saw, homelessness, is especially concentrated in Austin. Austin is perhaps the most liberal city in deep red Texas, so homeless people flock to Austin because it has good services and a generally sympathetic populace, and some rural conservative locales have even been giving homeless people one way bus tickets to Austin. I guess the good news is that Austin built a shit ton of housing since 2021-2022, so housing prices (including rentals) are falling faster in Austin than anywhere else in the US.
- pixl97 6mo ago>so the reason basic sandwiches are so expensive there is that entry level pay is now about $25/hr. Commercial property and property tax rates are insane in Texas. It's not the pay, because in towns were pay is less prices aren't much lower.
- hn_throwaway_99 6mo agoMeh, property tax rates are so high in Texas because there is no state income tax. And I disagree that prices aren't much lower in other towns. Whenever I drive to Houston I always comment when I stop for food (which usually ends up being at some "fast casual" type place) that prices are much more reasonable than in Austin, like ~20-25% less.
- tzs 6mo agoIn constant dollars cars are actually pretty much the same as they were 40+ years ago when you compare similar types and trim levels. A new Honda Civic for example costs about the same when you take into account inflation as the Civic I bought in 1989. The average price people are paying for a new car now is (in constant dollars) about twice what it was back when I got that '89 Civic, but that is because a larger percentage of buyers nowadays are buying bigger and/or more luxurious cars. It's quite remarkable when you take into account how much more technology and safety features are in new cars. My '89 Civic didn't even have cruise control.
- sidewndr46 6mo agoYou've got the cause and effect backwards here. The average purchase price of a car in constant dollars is about double now because those are the only cars to purchase and the only group that can afford those cars are those who are affluent. In general the people who purchase new vehicles ironically are not the ones who own them. They consistently purchase new vehicles at a regular cadence. The existence of some base model Honda Civic or similar doesn't imply you or anyone can actually buy one.
- roncesvalles 6mo ago>because those are the only cars to purchase and the only group that can afford those cars are those who are affluent What is the basis for you to assume this and not, for example, the fact that people simply spend a bigger percentage of their earnings on cars now? You can definitely buy the base model Civic that you see online. It was only during COVID that you couldn't due to inventory shortages.
- selimthegrim 6mo agoYou're going to be waiting for a while as the dealership finance people make you run the gantlet.
- cucumber3732842 6mo ago>The existence of some base model Honda Civic or similar doesn't imply you or anyone can actually buy one. There's a regulatory required number (it's not many) of those supper stripped down below the base model cars they have to make to advertise the "starting at price" so you can find them if you really try. I know this because I know an old lady who (close to 20yr ago now) sought out the super base model of the.... wait for it.... first year of the CVT Nissan Altima! It didn't even have a radio. It proved to be really reliable because it was well cared for and not driven hard, she gave it away to a nephew a year or so ago.
- mikepurvis 6mo agoSame experience as a Canadian visiting NY and SF in recent years. Yes I know I went to the most expensive cities in the country but still it was hard to eat a basic meal that wasn't US$30, and in tourist contexts (like the hotel restaurant) it was even more still. Even shopping for a few basic groceries felt like I was paying dollar amounts more than I would expect to see at home but in a currency that's worth 1.3x+.
- maxerickson 6mo agoServices are expensive because they compete for labor with other things. I think US grocery prices are higher because there's not really a goal of keeping them lower. Subsidies could be structured to ensure that they help the consumer, but they aren't. And so on.
- WarmWash 6mo agoGrocery stores don't make any money though. That's why its practically a huge monopoly, and even still they hardly make money. Food in general is an awful business to be in. Food is expensive and no one is getting rich from it. It's a strong sign you are in an advanced economy, and will be having it hard if you aren't part of that "advanced".
- maxerickson 6mo agoSure, but we subsidize farmers and then they sell their products to middlemen and we are like "yeah whatever you want". Attach the subsidy to the eventual retail price and they would at least be a little lower.
- BobaFloutist 6mo agoWhere in Canada are you from? When I visited Vancouver from the Bay Area things only felt cheaper accounting for the exchange rate.
- mikepurvis 6mo ago
- johnsmith1840 6mo agoI don't think you've seen starving people if this is your opinion. I have never seen someone in america starving.
- cguess 6mo agoOh boy, you're not paying attention or you're in a bubble. Not usually distended belly-famine starving, sure, but malnutrition is rife in many rural and impoverished counties in the country.
- Rapzid 6mo agoOkay so they aren't in a bubble and paying attention because malnutrition isn't starving. And Trump is probably malnourished but it has nothing to do with means.
- s5300 6mo ago[dead]
- dlivingston 6mo agoEducate me. Isn't that what food stamps / SNAP is exactly intended to prevent? On top of the many soup kitchens and church/charity food drives.
- johnsmith1840 6mo agoI would have agreed until I went abroad. I distinctly remember seeing the mother and child in a dark stairwell mother thin as a rail sitting on dirt and trash the woman barely lucid baby wailing. Or the old man begging on the corner with one arm clearly starving in nothing but a fabric cloth pants the bones sticking out like nothing I've seen before. Malnutrition by western standards is bs you're either dying or you're not. Most of the world does not live on a balanced diet.
- tim333 6mo agoI wasn't really saying starving. Just hungry enough to come ask for food and eat it. I think the lady in question was likely drug addicted but even so usually even the addicts are fed.
- ProllyInfamous 6mo ago>On my trip to Austin a couple of years ago it'd got really expensive. That's Austin & life in the 21st Century, friend. I grew up ATX-style in the 90s, and cannot afford to live there anymore. But also chose not to years before then. There're still a few regions where living hasn't gotten life-prohibitive, yet (my answer: anywhere there is a Cookout and/or Pal's fastfood restaurant). But nothing is cheap, anymore.
- TitaRusell 6mo agoThey're opening Action stores in the US because their CEO has noticed that it's a huge potential market. Cheap Chinese shit is like mana from heaven for the poor and couple that with Dutch frugality and America is saved.
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- dlev_pika 6mo agoTexas has gone nuts. I visited Dallas, Houston, Galveston from Oregon last year, looking to try out the cheap food that I hear about online because they dOn’T hAvE cOmMuNiSt tAxEs aNd rEgUlAtIoNs, and oh boy did I my hopes get crushed. Everything seemed as expensive, or more, than in my area with regulations, more reasonable worker protections and minimum wage…
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- anon291 6mo agoPartially this is because of the strength of the dollar. I lived briefly in England in 2013ish and everything was expensive. I went back last year and it seemed cheaper, but only because the dollar has increased in value. Thus, if you've been visiting from England, you're probably seeing a huge increase in price due to the pound weakening.
- jaarse 6mo agoI’m Canadian, but frequently travel in the US. Over the past year I am also shocked at US prices. It used to be that everything in the US was about 25% cheaper (makes sense as their dollar is worth more). Lately I’ve noticed that everything is priced the same. And I mean exactly the same. On work trips over the past year I’ve had to buy tools at Home Depot, supplies at IKEA and Walmart, groceries, hotel, etc. I was in both large and small cities on the east and West coast … and the pricing is the same. The drill I bought for $279 USD is $279 CAD. The IKEA cabinet I got for $199USD is $199CAD, etc.. Note sure what is going on with US prices, but Canadian making $17/hr minimum wage are struggling. I can’t imagine how Americans do it..
- pb7 6mo agoUS USD$199: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18V-Lithium-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-1-2-in-Compact-Drill-Driver-Kit-with-Two-2-0-Ah-Batteries-Charger-and-Case-3601-22CT/325544370 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-18V-Lithium-Ion-Br... Canada CAD$298: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/milwaukee-tool-m18-18-volt-lithium-ion-brushless-cordless-1-2-in-compact-drill-driver-kit-with-2-2-0-ah-batteries/1001824335 https://www.homedepot.ca/product/milwaukee-tool-m18-18-volt-... First drill I opened.
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- jaarse 6mo agoYou can always find outliers. Just glad I don’t have to pay American prices, that’s all. But have fun continuing to tell yourselves that you’re doing so great.