4 ms·

Much ink has been spilled in the comments already, but as a child of the 80s, computers were a class, and not a lifestyle. If I had gone through school with wha

by havaloc 5mo ago

Much ink has been spilled in the comments already, but as a child of the 80s, computers were a class, and not a lifestyle. If I had gone through school with what's available today, I doubt I would have done as well as I did. Most things were handwritten, I learned cursive, and computer class was Oregon Trail and basic programming essentially. Looking back, I don't think Chromebooks, iPads and the like would have been beneficial to my elementary/middle/high school education at all. Our primary instrument of learning was the teacher and really thick textbooks that were passed down student to student, and you could see that journey inside the in front cover where you signed it out for the year. As someone who would protest at learning long division when a calculator was around, in retrospect, the teacher was right.

commandlinefan 5mo ago
> Much ink has been spilled Ironically...
wat10000 5mo ago
It's amazing how bad these things can be. My kids will sometimes get computerized homework which gets graded automatically, and if you don't format the answer the way it likes, zero points. They spend as much effort fighting with the formatting as they do understanding the material. And this is in one of the wealthiest, best run public school districts in the country. "Technology" has been an education buzzword since I was in school and it needs to be taken out and shot.
- georgel 5mo ago
  This gave me flashbacks to LonCapa in college when I was in calculus classes circa 2011. A correct answer was marked incorrect automatically because of floating point issues.
marpstar 5mo ago
I don't know why I was so surprised when my kids told me there was nothing called a "computer lab" at their school... why would there be when each kid has their own device?
RyanOD 5mo ago
And parents are equally distracted from their job of parenting by those same devices. Want to help your child with their education? Support their teachers when/if your child is making poor decisions at school.
nicbou 5mo ago
Isn't the available learning material better than it has ever been? As a 30-something, basic AI uses completely blow my mind. It has never been this easy to be curious, because there is a machine in my pocket that reduces the cost of finding answers to nearly zero. I can point my phone at a painting and dig as deep as I want into its subject, artist, movement and so on. It's a real world Pokédex. Then there are countless well-made tutorials for every imaginable topic on YouTube, and more high-quality old-fashioned websites that Google cares to index. Claude is really cool too. If you care to look at its output, you can see a fairly good translation of your thoughts into code. You can translate your projects from one language or framework to another. We used to read textbooks cover to cover. Now we get custom examples for any imaginable idea. So why are these technologies failing our kids? Why are they so powerful in the hands of a curious person, yet making everyone dumber?
- wyldberry 5mo ago
  My hypothesis is that for us, now post studying in the "old ways", are able to use these tools to increase learning. The fundamental problem seems to be that screens as a basis for learning how to learn, study, and retain information in kids appears to be detrimental to developing that core skill we have already developed.
  - havaloc 5mo ago
    > The fundamental problem seems to be that screens as a basis for learning how to learn, study, and retain information in kids appears to be detrimental to developing that core skill we have already developed. As I like to say, AI is great for those of us who "learned it the hard way", be it coding and learning, but I suspect I would not have bothered learning it the hard way if I had it available when I was younger.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- havaloc 5mo ago
  > Why are they so powerful in the hands of a curious person, yet making everyone dumber? Curiosity level varies per individual. I find certain things fascinating that many others don't. AI has been a boon for me and others who may be limitlessly curious, and it may be a negative for the uncurious.
nradov 5mo ago
Oh how I hated having to learn cursive when I was in school. What an utter waste of limited instructional time that could have been better spent on mathematics or science or touch typing or creative writing or literally any other subject. If some students really want to learn calligraphy then make it an art elective but don't torture the rest of us.
- bdangubic 5mo ago
  touch typing is about as useful as … (whatever is the most useless thing). science? I spent years in science classes from elem all the way through uni, physics, chemistry, thermodynamics, you name it, about as useful to me (and 99.6% of my classmates) as russian I learned along the way too. cursive is art and everyone needs a little art. my kid goes to private school and non-cursive is practically forbidden (you are allowed to print of course but not a single student does, it is beautiful getting to read what my kid writes when I get my friday folder :) )
  - frm88 5mo ago
    touch typing is about as useful as … (whatever is the most useless thing). I disagree. I cannot count the times I typed a documentation from an audio device without pausing the device once. Even short converstions in parallel are no problem. Being able to type without sight, by pure muscle memory is an invaluable skill. Edit: also, try typing a dissertation in a two finger henpeck system and see how long it takes you.
    - bdangubic 5mo ago
      > I cannot count the times I typed a documentation from an audio device without pausing the device once. you do know we have tools that transcribe audio, yes? :)
- throwaway27448 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- Teever 5mo ago

by havaloc 5mo ago

commandlinefan 5mo ago

> Much ink has been spilled Ironically...

wat10000 5mo ago

It's amazing how bad these things can be. My kids will sometimes get computerized homework which gets graded automatically, and if you don't format the answer the way it likes, zero points. They spend as much effort fighting with the formatting as they do understanding the material. And this is in one of the wealthiest, best run public school districts in the country. "Technology" has been an education buzzword since I was in school and it needs to be taken out and shot.

georgel 5mo ago
This gave me flashbacks to LonCapa in college when I was in calculus classes circa 2011. A correct answer was marked incorrect automatically because of floating point issues.

marpstar 5mo ago

I don't know why I was so surprised when my kids told me there was nothing called a "computer lab" at their school... why would there be when each kid has their own device?

RyanOD 5mo ago

And parents are equally distracted from their job of parenting by those same devices. Want to help your child with their education? Support their teachers when/if your child is making poor decisions at school.

nicbou 5mo ago

Isn't the available learning material better than it has ever been? As a 30-something, basic AI uses completely blow my mind. It has never been this easy to be curious, because there is a machine in my pocket that reduces the cost of finding answers to nearly zero. I can point my phone at a painting and dig as deep as I want into its subject, artist, movement and so on. It's a real world Pokédex. Then there are countless well-made tutorials for every imaginable topic on YouTube, and more high-quality old-fashioned websites that Google cares to index. Claude is really cool too. If you care to look at its output, you can see a fairly good translation of your thoughts into code. You can translate your projects from one language or framework to another. We used to read textbooks cover to cover. Now we get custom examples for any imaginable idea. So why are these technologies failing our kids? Why are they so powerful in the hands of a curious person, yet making everyone dumber?

wyldberry 5mo ago
My hypothesis is that for us, now post studying in the "old ways", are able to use these tools to increase learning. The fundamental problem seems to be that screens as a basis for learning how to learn, study, and retain information in kids appears to be detrimental to developing that core skill we have already developed.
- havaloc 5mo ago
  > The fundamental problem seems to be that screens as a basis for learning how to learn, study, and retain information in kids appears to be detrimental to developing that core skill we have already developed. As I like to say, AI is great for those of us who "learned it the hard way", be it coding and learning, but I suspect I would not have bothered learning it the hard way if I had it available when I was younger.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
havaloc 5mo ago
> Why are they so powerful in the hands of a curious person, yet making everyone dumber? Curiosity level varies per individual. I find certain things fascinating that many others don't. AI has been a boon for me and others who may be limitlessly curious, and it may be a negative for the uncurious.

nradov 5mo ago

Oh how I hated having to learn cursive when I was in school. What an utter waste of limited instructional time that could have been better spent on mathematics or science or touch typing or creative writing or literally any other subject. If some students really want to learn calligraphy then make it an art elective but don't torture the rest of us.

bdangubic 5mo ago
touch typing is about as useful as … (whatever is the most useless thing). science? I spent years in science classes from elem all the way through uni, physics, chemistry, thermodynamics, you name it, about as useful to me (and 99.6% of my classmates) as russian I learned along the way too. cursive is art and everyone needs a little art. my kid goes to private school and non-cursive is practically forbidden (you are allowed to print of course but not a single student does, it is beautiful getting to read what my kid writes when I get my friday folder :) )
- frm88 5mo ago
  touch typing is about as useful as … (whatever is the most useless thing). I disagree. I cannot count the times I typed a documentation from an audio device without pausing the device once. Even short converstions in parallel are no problem. Being able to type without sight, by pure muscle memory is an invaluable skill. Edit: also, try typing a dissertation in a two finger henpeck system and see how long it takes you.
  - bdangubic 5mo ago
    > I cannot count the times I typed a documentation from an audio device without pausing the device once. you do know we have tools that transcribe audio, yes? :)
throwaway27448 5mo ago
[flagged]
Teever 5mo ago