4 ms·

This article is just a summary of other articles. Specifically these two more detailed ones: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/meta-to-start-capturing-employee-mo

• ramon156 6mo ago
  > "This makes me super uncomfortable. How do we opt out?" was the top-rated comment in response to the internal announcement, according to a post on Meta's internal workplace communications site seen by Business Insider." Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit?
  • figmert 6mo ago
    > Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit? While I agree with you, sadly not everyone is in a position to just quit so easily, and even if the majority of the company quits, there are always people who are desperate enough to do the work and not complain.
  • benbristow 6mo ago
    Have you seen the salaries Meta pay?
    • embedding-shape 6mo ago
      That's the crux. People aren't asking "Am I earning enough?" but "How can I earn more?", and it all spirals into whatever the current system could be called.
    • jagged-chisel 6mo ago
      So employees should have plenty in the bank to fall back on while they found their own companies to compete … right?
  • ben_w 6mo ago
    > Have people lost their spine? Yes, but this being Meta who are one of the several poster-children for surveillance capitalism, this comes across as more a face-leopard than a missing spine: https://old.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/ https://old.reddit.com/r/LeopardsAteMyFace/ > seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit? Have you seen the job market lately? Not just in the USA, but also in the USA, there's a lot of people holding on to whatever they've got because it's hard to find replacement work.
    • deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    • JKCalhoun 6mo ago
      I wonder though if we're not approaching a time when even those who clung to their jobs will be joining those out of work. My wife, anecdotally, was just laid off from Agilent after having worked there for close to three decades. We were fortunate to see that as an opportunity for her to take her (albeit early) retirement. I don't doubt there are plenty at Meta who, if not nearing retirement age, might have been harboring some desire to take some time off to hike the Big Three hiking trails in the U.S. Or perhaps write a novel. Seriously.
  • Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
    The majority of people working at Meta will never ever again in their lives get a job offer that good. Meta knows this and doesn't care about many of them quitting. They can currently scoop up an endless supply of developers that have memorized every single leetcode hard, system design and """behavioral""" interview question.
    • lonelyasacloud 6mo ago
      > They can currently scoop up an endless supply of developers that have memorized every single leetcode hard, system design and """behavioral""" interview question. And will those help them get where they think they want to go?
      • QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
        Yes
      • Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
        Yes. Meta stock is up 33% last year, up 122% in the last 5 years. If that isn't "being where you want to be", I don't know what is.
    • rob74 6mo ago
      Ok, so this spyware is another step in the "either they comply with what we force them to do, or they quit, whichever way, for us it's a win-win" strategy, after Return To Office? And, just to make sure the employees get the point, they concurrently announce a further 10% round of layoffs? Yeah, makes sense...
      • Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
        Nothing planned at Meta that can not be achieved with the decently competent engineers who will accept this insane surveillance and don't give a shit about whether they build weapons of mass destruction/surveillance/whatever. Plenty of willing replacements ready at any time. Long term strategically planned reduction of average salary by replacing uppity rockstars/activists with the groveling creme de la creme of codemonkeys is part of the plan.
  • leetrout 6mo ago
    Money, of course. Both greed and comfort.
    • sheepscreek 6mo ago
      And existing obligations. Most people I know, myself including, stretch our current situation as the paycheque grows. Some of it is intentional. A lot of it is slow creep (“ah, I can afford a, b, c now..that Maserati/Porche Cayenne GTS/Urus-lol I’ve always wanted!”). While you’re doing this, your spouse and kids are doing it 2x - “oh dad got that fancy new car! I guess I can ask him for the special edition Jordans now..”). Out of guilt, you let your family join in on the buying frenzy. Now you’ve landed yourself with new loans and obligations (more expensive car = higher maintenance cost, same with house, etc - higher expectation all around, keeping up with Joneses, charity events, …). Getting out of all that is much more difficult than overcoming your own greed and discomfort - many are legal obligations and you basically need a multi-year plan to go back unscathed (assuming you and your family are pragmatic enough to readjust your comfort level). For some it can be leaving useful social obligations - you lose your social circle if you downgrade (may have to move further away, no more club or association memberships). The only real remedy is to not let your expenditure go up when you get a raise. But it’s less about you and in equal measure about how your partner operates, kids, family, their expectations etc. All in all, odds are not in an average Meta employees favour no matter what they might personally think/feel.
      • etrautmann 6mo ago
        I think it can be radically more pedestrian than this. Just affording basic life in a high COL area is insane. Getting an apt in NY and paying for childcare for two kids can already be a 16k/mo endeavor, no porche entering the equation.
  • bauerd 6mo ago
    Health insurance and opportunity cost
    • deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
  • mc32 6mo ago
    Exactly. It’s the same defeatist attitude people who get an extra three months of pay to train their Eastern European or Indian replacements. They will gladly take the three months pay to train a replacement. I’d quit on the spot. Let them figure it out.
    • jredwards 6mo ago
      Practically speaking, the person who stays has three months salary, plus severance and then unemployment. The person who quits loses their entire income stream immediately. Do you think your small act of defiance has a bigger impact on you, or on the company? Now imagine you have a family at home that depends on your income and do the math again.
      • mc32 6mo ago
        If people affected banded together and all defied the company, the company would find itself in a difficult situation. If the then became standard procedure for workers affected by offshoring, companies would hesitate to do this. It would have to be much more organic and would have diminished and drawn out impact on workers. Yes companies could open foreign offices, etc., but it’s more work and fewer companies would consider the option. Today then simply say “we’re transitioning network and security to an ATT, Verizon, etc. organization based in (some low COL geography).” If companies had had pushback over the last 25 years, they’d be less likely to consider the option.
        • junofan 6mo ago
          How about voting against offshoring? That way I don’t have to have an uncomfortable showdown with my employer, and every working person benefits.
          • mc32 6mo ago
            Yes, but that ship sailed. Bernie Sanders used to be for the American worker. He used to block re-settling refugees in his state. Nowadays even he doesn't care to curb immigration or off-shoring. Some people in the Trump admin make motions about curbing some (unnecessary legal) immigration (ala Canada and Australia -vetting for skills needed). Very few want to curb offshoring. Both Democrats and Republicans monetarily benefit from offshoring and increasing competition for American workers. Elon pretends his companies could not run without more imported workers --sure, I get it, you don't want to bother to train a capable local population, much of which is descended from relatively recent immigrants.
  • xnorswap 6mo ago
    "Companies should be able to bully their staff, since their staff are free to quit" is not compatible with a decent society.
    • vasco 6mo ago
      I agree and consider a lot of regulation to be useful but there are some examples of this where I think we just perpetuate bad companies into existing when they'dgo bankrupt or have to pay wild salaries to compensate being shitty. But it just doesn't seem practical to expect people to stop working for bad companies. In the country I'm from the average salary is super close to the minimum wage with low unemployment so technically employees could change easily and find another job with the same minimum wage and still people stay at bad companies. It'd be the best regulator if people quit, even unions wouldn't need to exist, under this light a union just perpetuates a bad boss, but human nature is not changing so protections are needed.
    • amiga386 6mo ago
      "Companies should be able to offer massively addictive and manipulative websites, since their users are free to not look at them" is not compatible with a decent society either.
      • andrepd 6mo ago
        > since their users are free to not look at them It's even worse when you consider that even if you were to opt out of Meta services entirely (which is not practical due to how many essential things run on e.g. whatsapp), they still build a shadow profile on you based only on data other people upload about you. So yeah, not only "just don't use it" is not a reasonable argument, it doesn't even solve anything!
        • onemoresoop 6mo ago
          Their argument: users are free not to think about it.
        • mingus88 6mo ago
  • pinkmuffinere 6mo ago
    > Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit? Come on, they may be caring for children, sick relatives, or have a million other reasons to want a stable, well-paying job. There are many well-justified reasons they could have to stay, and yet want to opt-out. "Just quit your job" is extremely out-of-touch.
    • embedding-shape 6mo ago
      Claiming that developers and technology workers at Meta are working there because that's the only stable, well-paying job they can find, is extremely out of touch. People forget how comfortable us developers really have it, compared to almost any other field out there.
  • miroljub 6mo ago
    There are other methods broadly classified as self-defense that an employee can apply against a company and its officials who attack their privacy. Let Meta and its officials feel the consequences of their actions.
    • KumaBear 6mo ago
      If it’s company equipment it’s fair game. Literally everytime I sign in it states I have no expectation of privacy while using the equipment.
      • addandsubtract 6mo ago
        The American mind can't comprehend privacy. Just because it's company equipment doesn't make it "fair game" to spy and track you.
        • miroljub 6mo ago
          I wouldn't blame it on Americans. They are not different from the others. Just take a look at what Europeans are putting up with. The only difference: in the USA it's private companies that spy, while in the EU the governments are leading the spying game.
  • rdevilla 6mo ago
    Right on. Meta employees, fuck you for building the surveillance state we live in today. You are the fucking scourge and death of the 2000s internet. Eat shit, I care not for your "privacy concerns."
    • cannonpr 6mo ago
      While I can understand the sentiment, it should be expressed with less vulgarity, and frankly, workers should show more solidarity to one another, not because of “deserving it” or not, but simply because it’s the only way out of the pit they put us in. Otherwise we are forever dragging each other back in.
      • rdevilla 6mo ago
        I will not use the LLM's Corporate English.
        • inquirerGeneral 6mo ago
          [dead]
      • 63stack 6mo ago
        Where was that worker's solidarity from meta employees when they to built out the surveillance network?
      • embedding-shape 6mo ago
        > workers should show more solidarity to one another Agree, but at one point you're also effectively betraying people who typically want to give you solidarity, especially when you're working on systems and tooling used for suppressing said solidarity. So yeah, fuck you Meta employees for completely lacking any sort of spine.
      • ubermonkey 6mo ago
        >it should be expressed with less vulgarity, Clutch those pearls!
      • 6mo ago
  • bdangubic 6mo ago
    got two words for you - money
  • 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
    I have no idea why you are being downvoted. This is probably the most rational take. Some level of sacrifice is required when you feel super uncomfortable at work in the US. I get the arguments of "I can't lose my pay", but at the same time, if you aren't aligned with how they treat you now, what do you think they will be doing with that data? What does 1 year from now look like? 2 years? Do you think it will be less invasive? Or will they be tracking your eye movements as well, facial sentiment?
  • nacozarina 6mo ago
    good times create weak men and we had it so good for so long it ruined us
  • deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  • rubyfan 6mo ago
    My guess is people put up with this shit because the job market is terrible right now and most other workplaces in big tech will follow suite soon.
  • everdrive 6mo ago
    >Have people lost their spine? seriously, quit your job. this is insane. why are americans putting up with this bullshit? I don't know why, but it's endemic. You have ICE, quite literally purchasing your surveillance data so they can sweep people off the streets. But getting people to delete some apps? It's effectively impossible. However you feel about the ICE issue, and future government program could deem you the enemy. And your data is out there just waiting to be weaponized against you. But will people actually do anything about it? Delete their apps? Stop using a smartphone? Write their congressman? Nope, nope, nope, and nope. They will complain online a bit and otherwise change _no_ behavior. The only positive movement I've seen in this regard is people moving away from flock. Otherwise, people are tripping over themselves to allow surveillance into their lives.
  • throwaway2037 6mo ago
    > why are americans putting up with this bullshit? The answer is simple: Golden handcuffs. If you pay people enough money, they will do anything. Also, labor laws are so weak in the US that this is surely allowed. It would take a federal law (or many powerful states to all pass laws in parallel) to outlaw this behaviour. Hint: It will not happen.
  • Cytobit 6mo ago
    Why would you quit your job before determining if you can opt out? What would be the benefit?
  • Henchman21 6mo ago
    Americans have, in my lifetime, stopped being adults. Everyone is a child, everyone asks permission for everything. Everyone takes the answer they receive as the word of their chosen god. We are collectively incapacitated by the soft glow of our smartphones. This was intentional. This community made these devices. This community should bear the brunt of the backlash. And likewise, the engineers at Facebook should be actively surveilled for the rest of their days as punishment.
  • qwertyuiop_ 6mo ago
    Meta will just backfill these with more H1-Bs.
  • robotburrito 6mo ago
    Stuff like this is coming for everyone.