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Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker
- roos85 7mo ago[flagged]
- clemailacct1 7mo agoThere has been a substantial surge in low quality and Reddit hive mind replies on HN lately. I’m curious what the root cause of it is.
- busterarm 7mo agoYou only just noticed this now? At the very least, HN is subject to the same intellectual capture that's taken over (seemingly) the whole damn world the past decade.
- catlikesshrimp 7mo agoIt is now easier to mass create and program dormant accounts. They can be used later for any purpose. I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Show HN: I made 1000 accounts with more than 20,000 karma with Claude Opus 6.7" in the future
- sgc 7mo agoAs far as I can tell (including looking at third party analytics attempts), there had been a massive increase in users over the last 3 years. Smaller communities tend to hold their trademark character a lot better. Pure speculation, but (beyond the bots) I suspect that a lot of the newer users are younger, and the attempt to be a bit more focused and sincere here is something they miss before they start posting.
- ForHackernews 7mo agoContext: https://archive.is/pbJu9 https://archive.is/pbJu9
- uberman 7mo agoFascinating read. I know nothing about any of this neither the parties involved nor Copperhead though I had heard of Graphene. To that end, I wish the response included a pre-amble for those like me who were not familiar with what was going on. I guess I could probably read the Wired article though. Still. good read and I loved the Q and A at the end.
- ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago[flagged]
- Guvante 7mo ago"They have a long history of long rants attacking people and projects" in response to a long post... You are very much saying that OP is an attack post. Or at least implying the point that it is tonally dissonant to claim otherwise. If you didn't believe it was wrong you would comment on the post but you are explicitly avoiding doing that.
- Avamander 7mo ago> Something along the lines of "you know regardless of whether or not you're factually correct, these public attacks on other people companies are really bad for your image" Sometimes they aren't even factually correct and get a bit upset about it when called out. Anyways, I have gotten the same impression and these seem like red flags to me as well. Which is why I'd take everything in that response with a mountain of salt (and I'd pay attention to what they're not saying).
- fsflover 7mo ago[flagged]
- bwoah 7mo agoThere you go again. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47247016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47247016
- fsflover 7mo agoYes, I don't like when anybody spreads falsehoods about any important free software. Do you? However your example is unrelated. Their arguments were rather reasonable and informative in the discussion you linked to. So I don't complain about that anymore.
- 7mo ago
- ChrisArchitect 7mo agoWired article: They Built a Legendary Privacy Tool. Now They're Sworn Enemies https://www.wired.com/story/they-built-privacy-tool-grapheneos-now-sworn-enemies/ https://www.wired.com/story/they-built-privacy-tool-graphene... (https://archive.ph/pbJu9 https://archive.ph/pbJu9)
- Avamander 7mo agoThat archive.ph link has a nasty captcha I can't seem to pass with regular Chrome nor Firefox. Is there a mirror of that mirror?
- qingcharles 7mo agohttps://removepaywalls.com/https://www.wired.com/story/they-built-privacy-tool-grapheneos-now-sworn-enemies/ https://removepaywalls.com/https://www.wired.com/story/they-...
- htx80nerd 7mo ago[flagged]
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoA lot of the readers here think Wired is still pre-2006 / pre-Condé Nast ownership. I was personally involved in a story they did in 2015 that was paid for by a three letter gov agency to bad mouth a companies tech into changing. I know only a few of their tricks, and they’re dirty as hell.
- antonvs 7mo agoWired was so cool… 30 years ago.
- gslepak 7mo ago> Donaldson, now 42, is a self-taught hacker who never finished school, was briefly unhoused, and spent most of his twenties in a “positive hardcore punk band.” “It’s cool being smart,” he told me. “But if you can’t pay your bills, you’re a dumbass.” > The domain “Copperhead.co” was registered by Donaldson in 2014 and incorporated in 2015 under both Donaldson’s and Micay’s names. The idea was that shares would be split equally, with Donaldson as CEO and Micay as de facto chief technology officer. Their flagship product It sounds to me like some "business" characters I know well. They "handle the business" while someone else does 99% of the actual work, then ask to split 50/50. This didn't work out for Donaldson, and now he spends his time harassing Micay? Is that the gist or am I misreading?
- Avamander 7mo ago> They "handle the business" while someone else does 99% of the actual work, then ask to split 50/50. As a response, Micay decided to destroy the update signing keys for all the CopperheadOS devices out in the wild. Resulting in financial damages to Donaldson. Hardly a level-headed response, even if you disagree about the financial share of something.
- margalabargala 7mo ago[flagged]
- Cortex5936 7mo agoI love GrapheneOS and I use it daily for more than 2 years. However, and as Louis Rossmann pointed out in one of his videos, they really need to work on the "defensiveness" and "rants" of their communication. Even when they are 99% right most of the time, they sometimes don't come as mature and professional.
- Georgelemental 7mo agoPersonally, I like that they come across as a little paranoid. That's exactly the attitude I want in the people protecting my privacy and security. I hope the developers lie awake at night, unable to fall asleep because terrified that someone somewhere is plotting to attack and exploit them
- busterarm 7mo agoThere's healthy paranoia and there's treating even casual commentary/criticism from anyone as an existential threat & coordinated attack...and responding to that with sustained, coordinated attack campaigns online. That's what Micay's history is. That's not healthy for any project.
- Cider9986 7mo agoRecently, the socials have been more moderate and level-headed, imo.
- TehCorwiz 7mo agoBased on how discourse in the US has been perverted by inches and millions of mosquito bites they may not be wrong. Stamping out bad information fast and hard seems to be the only way to combat mass coordinated disinformation. Being polite just lets people play the "both sides have merit" game.
- user_7832 7mo agoCould you share a link or something about this? > ...responding to that with sustained, coordinated attack campaigns online. That's what Micay's history is. For the rest, in general, I'm tempted to give grapheneOS the benefit of the doubt. Running any FOSS project is hard, running it against the (implicit) wishes of OEMs/Google (who throw in things like Play Integrity) is even harder, and doing it when 3 letter agencies at the US govt actively hate you is harder still. Being paranoid in responses to FUD campaigns isn't ideal, but save coordinated attacks, I'd say fairly understandable.
- 0gs 7mo ago[flagged]
- Lapsa 7mo ago[flagged]
- R1shy 7mo ago[flagged]
- HybridStatAnim8 7mo agoThe claim anyone on the GrapheneOS team is paranoid is unsubstantiated.
- Avamander 7mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- razingeden 7mo ago[flagged]
- HybridStatAnim8 7mo agoI gathered you were being facetious, but I do not appreciate being called a sockpuppet. I am a GOS community member and I have been for several years. I am active in the GrapheneOS chatrooms, and I choose to volunteer my time assisting others.
- razingeden 7mo ago[flagged]
- HybridStatAnim8 7mo agoI must emphasise I am not associated with GrapheneOS.
- other8026 7mo agoJust read the article again and I'd suggest also reading responses we sent to fact checkers (many answers didn't even show up in the article). James' side of the story is riddled with lies. So, if you read the article with that in mind, you can see that Copperhead got steered in the wrong direction by James. Daniel has been the owner of the open source project from the beginning and Copperhead was never in control of it. It was right to move forward without James. Nothing paranoid about that. It's more a move by someone who is dedicated to doing things right. See the attacks on GrapheneOS and even other privacy projects trying to make them look like they are designed for criminals. Even French law enforcement took part. We have shared these details publicly and even with links to articles with quotes. There was even news about authorities in Spain assuming anyone with a Pixel was likely a criminal. Months ago, we saw tons of reports of organizations reporting hacking GrapheneOS without any evidence or links to court cases. We never claim that GrapheneOS isn't hackable, but we still haven't seen any credible evidence showing forensics companies were able to hack it. These are just a few examples of how GrapheneOS is being attacked. Again, we're not the only ones. It's also important to note that GrapheneOS has many project members. GrapheneOS isn't a one man show. Our responses to these things are not out of paranoia. We want our users to know what's going on, so we keep them informed. What's wrong with that?
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo ago[flagged]
- johnnyApplePRNG 7mo ago[flagged]
- maxo133 7mo agoThe fact that graphane is getting attacked speaks enough for it's relability. First in france now in Wired. I'm more concerned that Signal incorporated in US is having easy life.
- user_7832 7mo ago> I'm more concerned that Signal incorporated in US is having easy life. To add - ironically, it was Durov (Telegram founder) who got arrested in Paris.
- neonstatic 7mo agoI don't find it ironic at all. Zero trust for anything Russia related.
- kelvinjps10 7mo agohe is not pro-Putin, the Telegram team was forced to leave and it has been blocked several times in Russia.
- Jamesbeam 7mo agoNot being pro-Putin doesn’t really matter to Putin. If he tells Durov to sit and be a good dog, Durov will sit and be a good dog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Kk7kobMQY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Kk7kobMQY
- sandmn 7mo agoUnlikely the case, Telegram is the app that Russian government is most focused on blocking right now, it's almost impossible to use without proxy or VPN. Not saying Durov is perfect but video you linked is about guy who has all his assets in Russia while Durov has none.
- Jamesbeam 7mo ago
- Accacin 7mo agoI personally can't understand why anyone bothers doing open source anything. This Micay guy spends so much time and does something hugely beneficial and we're arguing about how he responds to criticism? I'd rather direct and blunt rather than the weasel words and lies most companies put out.
- HybridStatAnim8 7mo agoThe GrapheneOS team does find corporate speak/slop to be undesirable. I appreciate that a lot.
- aphorism 7mo agoSome of us embrace our humanity and have an ethical and moral need to engage with the world we want to live in rather than the world dominant economic forces would prefer us to engage in.
- Accacin 7mo agoI can understand that, but for me he doesn't come across as a "bad" person. He hasn't come out with racism, sexism, etc. he just comes across a bit rude and blunt IMO. I'm much more concerned with companies that claim to support LGBQT+ and then stick a flag up for 10 minutes once a year, or companies who make 10% of their workforce redundant because they want to pay themselves more, or companies who on one hand support green initiatives and then behind the scenes do the complete opposite.
- Pxtl 7mo agoI just realized that Lineage and Graphene are two separate projects.
- rarez 7mo ago[flagged]
- 9cb14c1ec0 7mo ago[flagged]
- ysnp 7mo agoThere are a lot of judgemental comments here criticising Daniel's character, responses and handling of what was likely a very trying and stressful period in their life. Barely any comments about the linked thread which is about Wired publishing an article that was extremely poorly researched after having misled GrapheneOS about the intention and content of what would be published. This seems like the sort of thing that should earn a disclaimer on future Wired articles as worthless and get them removed from RSS feeds/have subscriptions cancelled. Complete lack of integrity and respect for standards. Why did they not interview anyone else involved in the project or around at the time?
- rrvsh 7mo agoFrankly insane and speaks to the entitlement of many users that they are against Micay and GOS on this primarily because their online comms are abrasive; I'm used to this having seen the same from many in the Minecraft and Skyrim mods communities, but it still stands saying: You are not owed ANYTHING from a free software developer. They can say anything they want to you and revoke the software at any point or anything they wish - they are providing the software for purely no reason but they want to. If Micay wants to be rude on main he has absolutely every right to do so; if you don't like it, don't use his software. He's not a steward or paragon of virtue just because he has a popular software project, and it's extremely easy to stand on a soapbox and say "If I was in that position, I'd be so much better!" To all the detractors in this thread, I beg you: go make software and give back instead. P.S. I avoided making any statements about what I personally think about Micay and the GOS team's behaviour above because I don't use it and have never looked into it before reading this article, but from looking at the comments, the WIRED article, the forum thread linked in this post, and some cursory research, it just seems like they are a popular software project that is at odds with many powerful actors with obvious motivations against their existence and popularity - if they are constantly combative online instead of being friendly, don't you think part or all of it may be because they have to defend themselves against attacks instead of having the freedom to be friendly like say SQLite/FFMPEG/Rust/other free software projects? I'm admittedly new to HN but this entitlement and refusal to empathise with the people giving you free shit seems insanely out of character
- joemazerino 7mo ago[flagged]
- other8026 7mo ago> Hopefully the HN mods will unflag the astroturfing campaign done by GrapheneOS here to allow a good healthy discussion. A quick Google search shows that you've been attacking Daniel for a long time using this account. You complain about moderation and astroturfing and I find tons of posts by you attacking Daniel. You clearly have some sort of weird vendetta against him. Don't pretend to want a "good healthy discussion" when all you seem to be interested in is attacking him further.
- mapotofu 7mo agoIt seems very plausible to me that there is a vested interest in seeding drama and chaos into the reputation of GOS. Why wouldn’t there be? Especially when it seems there’s an easy way to trigger Micay, and there are cottage industries online specializing in exactly this sort of thing. I get the sense a lot of people care about this project and care about defending it but good luck against the propaganda and bullshit like this that comes along with it. I really enjoy GOS and used it as a daily driver for ~3 years
- DANmode 7mo agoAll it takes is comments like this!