5 ms·
What physical ‘life force’ turns biology’s wheels?
- Almured 5mo agoWhat I find fascinating is the extreme efficiency of what is effectively an electric motor, reaching nearly 100% efficiency. At human scale we struggle with heat dissipation and friction
- ssivark 5mo agoBut at the same time the motor is extremely finicky/fragile in the source of energy (negentropy) it will accept, while natural life is extremely hardy and adaptable. I wonder how much of machine-like "efficiency" is actually "overfitting" at the cost of robustness.
- Almured 5mo agoThat is a fair point to be honest! I guess when you a 20min lifetime you can probably compromise on reliability in favour of extra efficiency
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 5mo agoEvery race, the engine of a top-fuel dragster only completes about 900 revolutions and then has to be rebuilt! https://www.motortrend.com/features/top-fuel-dragsters https://www.motortrend.com/features/top-fuel-dragsters
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 5mo agoThe need to reproduce and repair our bodies is a big trade-off. Electric motors are sort of like hermit crab shells - Hard and long-lasting, but they only exist because they piggyback off of a living species.
- pixl97 5mo agoI mean, we are getting to the point where we can build self completing loops of machinery.
- anjel 5mo agoFor more complicated organisms, robustness comes in the form of cellular turnover, and regenerative healing in response to injury, at least in youth. I wonder though if single celled organisms have or even need such a function.
- brazzy 5mo agoIndividual cells absolutely do have mechanisms to repair damage: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5664224/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5664224/ They can even repair their own DNA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_repair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_repair
- justonceokay 5mo agoWho are we to say the mechanisms of biology are “overfit”? Maybe it would be nice if our personal machinery was more robust, but that robustness comes at an evolutionary cost. The greater force that is life on earth as a system for regulating planetary energy dissipation does not care about the needs of the individual. It does not care about the fashions of the millennia. Its sights are set much farther and its history much deeper than that
- Melatonic 5mo agoOr perhaps we are "overfitting" for robustness over time and also as a group (over society) vs just individual robustness at any given moment. We also have extremely robust livers that allow us to eat a super wide variety of food as energy inputs
- pazimzadeh 5mo agoat the scale that it operates, the flagella is more a drill than a propeller there's a good richard feynam video about how things feel when they're that small https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eRCygdW--c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eRCygdW--c
- SummSolutions 5mo agoI could listen to him all day - great video
- Terr_ 5mo agoAnother classic on how scale matters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Being_the_Right_Size https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Being_the_Right_Size
- zimpenfish 5mo agoFor some context, a billion years at a 20 minute breeding cycle is 26.3 trillion generations.
- ur-whale 5mo ago> For some context, a billion years at a 20 minute breeding cycle is 26.3 trillion generations. Which if you want an actual feel for the true scale of things, must be multiplied by (order of magnitude) the number of bacteriums on the planet.
- zimpenfish 5mo agoGood point, forgot about that. Add another 10-20 zeros?
- pixl97 5mo agoAnd when you get into things like lateral gene transfer it's not even a tree any longer.
- f6v 5mo ago> Which if you want an actual feel for the true scale of things The caveat is that more zeros do nothing for our comprehension of the scale. That's the problem because most people can't comprehend how evolution is even possible. We just don't have a mental model for a trillion, it's all the same to us after a certain threshold.
- mmooss 5mo agoIs that true for evolution? If that math works, it seems that any one bacterium's mutation must become universal across the globe? Evolution works but not for every instance of a beneficial mutation. I wonder what the odds are for bacteria.
- zimpenfish 5mo agoIt's more the probabilities, I think[1] - even in one generation, (say) 26 trillion[0] bacterium are going to experience a lot of mutations. [0] Which is an extremely low ball number for worldwide bacterium, even billions of years ago, I think, given your average human has around 30 trillion inside them. [1] Like "anomalies in Minecraft" series - given how many seeds there are, how many people play it, and how big the worlds are, eventually even the rarest things generate naturally.
- abhikul0 5mo agoRelevant Smarter Every Day video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPSm9gJkPxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPSm9gJkPxU
- rubbsdecvik 5mo agoStated Clearly also has a great deep dive that I've really enjoyed https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLInNVsmlBUlSjLSj9yGEKphF0RYRYBlXg&si=NDPj7m9UJEwqBMGJ https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLInNVsmlBUlSjLSj9yGEKphF0... He actually makes it as a reply to Smarter Every Day.
- mock-possum 5mo agoHoly crap this is a rabbit hole and a half. I know what I’m watching while the robot writes my code tomorrow.
- haritha-j 5mo agoReally nice 3D animations in that video. Something like this, I find quite difficult to comrehend jsut off of a text description.
- bacteriumiu 5mo agoArticle stopped exactly where stuff got interesting. This whole "protons entering bacterium and being pumped out" is exactly the ancestor of the mitochondria, that's what it does, except now the "outside" is the inside of the parent cell.
- madaxe_again 5mo agoThe respiratory complexes - the machines at the core of it all - are absolutely wild bits of natural engineering. Perhaps the most incredible and successful non-trivial natural objects in existence.
- SummSolutions 5mo agoThis is very similar to mitochondrial respiration with both using an electrochemical gradient of protons, the proton motive force, as an energy source.
- djokkataja 5mo agoThis reminds me of a gem of a comment from about a month back, about a dead simple Russian guidance system from a Cold War-era missile: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47389285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47389285 Actually, someone even commented in that thread about how it was similar to biological mechanisms: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47390619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47390619
- kranner 5mo agoFor explorations of simple mechanisms like this leading to complex behaviour, Valentino Braitenberg’s book Vehicles is a classic.
- bryancoxwell 5mo agoWould it do well on a Kindle or does it rely on illustrations?
- kranner 5mo agoDefinitely relies on illustrations. The author passed away 15 years ago so I will mention the PDF of the book shows up in the first few search results on Google.
- bryancoxwell 5mo agoThanks!
- dreamcompiler 5mo agoSeconded. This book enlarged my brain.
- sandworm101 5mo agoSimple spin-scan but with a rolling airframe. The technique is still used today. It is simple only if one looks at individual components. The total package is a different beast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-116_Rolling_Airframe_Missi...
- pawelduda 5mo agoTruly mind blowing. A few days ago I found this animation [1] that shows it in motion [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/educationalgifs/comments/17squg1/how_bacteria_get_around_bacterial_flagellum/ https://www.reddit.com/r/educationalgifs/comments/17squg1/ho...
- stronglikedan 5mo agoSmarter Every Day on Youtube has a couple of videos on this topic that are worth seeking out, especially if that animation whet your palette.
- stinos 5mo agoThis one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPSm9gJkPxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPSm9gJkPxU Imo the explanation is also done better than in the article.
- cineticdaffodil 5mo agoTo not use the motor is to prolong its life? So do not heat your body with the motor? Also can work as atp generator by applying rotation ?
- bgilroy26 5mo agoFor those who remember, the flagellum was a major site of the Intelligent Design debate that gave us Christopher Rufo (via the Discovery Institute) The general idea was that there were specific examples of "irreducible complexity" that proved that there was an intelligent designer. The project on the part of certain Christian political factions was to add a veneer of hypothesis testing to creationism. The god of the gaps retreats further
- svieira 5mo agoDoesn't "irreducible complexity" here mean "it wouldn't function in any reduced form", e. g. "it would not be possible to build this up in tiny parts useful for other things and then have those things transformed into these things by tiny accretions and removals over the course of the lifespans of these creatures."? The article doesn't cite anything that would suggest that this argument is any less relevant now that we understand how the system works than it was before we understood it at this level.
- pstuart 5mo agoIt does raise the question of the steps that happened to reach that functionality (not suggesting intelligent design here). I'd assume there'd be quanta of evolutionary evolvement but it isn't clear what that would look like (especially to someone like myself who is not an evolutionary biologist).
- pixl97 5mo agoOne thing to know about DNA is chunks of it can around not doing anything for long periods of time till suddenly more DNA comes in from somewhere and suddenly you have working behaviors. Things like Transposons are crazy.
- melagonster 5mo agoScientists collect many examples of different type of flagellum. So we can understand how it change during the evolution process. This article introduces the finding of organism structure.
- FleursDuMal 5mo agohttps://allpoetry.com/The-Force-That-Through-The-Green-Fuse-Drives-The-Flower https://allpoetry.com/The-Force-That-Through-The-Green-Fuse-...
- SummSolutions 5mo agoInteresting that humans and bacteria both use an electrochemical gradient to produce energy but in different ways. In humans, this happens in our mitochondria, but in bacteria this occurs across their cytoplasmic membrane. Would you agree this is a result of evolution?
- melagonster 5mo agoOur mitochondria was bacteria.
- dreamcompiler 5mo agoProtons are also called "hydrogen ions." Stuff that donates protons is called an "acid." So this is an acid chemical process but I'm not enough of a chemist to know more than that. Would welcome comments from someone who is.
- leonidasrup 5mo agoVisualisation of DNA polymerase enzyme copying mechanism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKe3UgH1AKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKe3UgH1AKg
- lucy_hnatchuk 5mo agoBeautifully written. This doesn’t just explain the flagellar motor — it feels like watching the very “life force” behind biology running on protons and entropy. Amazing how much of life boils down to such elegant physics.
- estimator7292 5mo agoI have always been super annoyed by the abstraction that ATP is a magical tiny battery that transports "energy" in some nonspecific way and that cells just hand-wave absorb that magic energy. I learned recently that the actual mechanism of the energy transfer is one of the most interesting parts of molecular biology. ATP doesn't just store chemical energy. ATP synthase constructs the molecules by literally mashing the two halves together and mechanically twisting them. ATP can later slot into proteins, releasing that energy by mechanically moving parts of a molecular machine. It can also be split for simple heat and participate in other chemical reactions more directly. But I find it absolutely fascinating that ATP operates as a mechanical battery. Storing actual mechanical motion in a chemical bond that can be reversed to recover the motion and transform it into work. Molecular machines are one of the most incredible things in the universe.