6 ms·

Their software is better than most (if not all) of closed-source universe. That's true, but the problem is, they were better in the past. I'm using both Linux

Their software is better than most (if not all) of closed-source universe. That's true, but the problem is, they were better in the past. I'm using both Linux and macOS close to 20 years (Linux is even more than 20, IIRC), and macOS (aka Mac OS) used to be snappier, more stable, more uniform and had incredibly low number of papercuts around the UI. Now it has some nasty thorns here and there, while Linux is improving steadily and not regressing much as macOS. Apple needs to overhaul their software stack. They can use a lot of sanding and polishing to bring the shine back. They need another "Snow Leopard" release, as many people say. On the other hand, even with all these bells and whistles, they can't even get close to the composability of Linux systems. Doing so will also damage their bottom line, so they won't, and that's OK.

antipaul 6mo ago
A Snow Leopard move, at least for iOS, is what's on deck: https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/15/ios-27-will-reportedly-be-like-mac-os-x-snow-leopard/ https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/15/ios-27-will-reportedly-...
- ProfessorLayton 6mo ago
  A major reason Snow Leopard was well received was because of how performant it felt along with the bug fixes. What isn't mentioned anywhere near as much is that it dropped a lot of hardware (PPC). The last G4 Powerbook got about 1.5y of OS support before it was dropped. iOS 26 is slated to drop a bunch of iPhone models. macOS is dropping all all macs with Intel CPUs. A Snow Leopard release isn't great news for a lot of people.
  - selcuka 6mo ago
    > The last G4 Powerbook got about 1.5y of OS support before it was dropped. > macOS is dropping all all macs with Intel CPUs. Those two cases are not really comparable though, are they? The last Intel CPU Mac was the 2019 Mac Pro, which was discontinued in 2023.
    - ProfessorLayton 6mo ago
      Aren't they? The last Intel macs were being sold less than 3y ago, and by the time macOS 27 releases they'll be less than 3.5y old. The broader point is that a "Snow Leopard" release has historically resulted in a lot of hardware being left behind, and many of the devices that could have benefited the most from optimizations were cut off.
    - asimovDev 6mo ago
      they also used to sell 2018 intel mac minis alongside it for a while as well, didn't they?
      - selcuka 6mo ago
        Those were discontinued in 2023, too. I still think it's unrealistic to expect 8+ years of OS updates for a computer even if you purchased it 5 years after its launch date.
- fchicken 6mo ago
  Great... yet more attention on iOS
  - robotresearcher 6mo ago
    Roughly 1.75 billion to 250 million installed OSes, according to public estimates. 7 to 1 ratio.
    - fchicken 6mo ago
      The numbers don't tell the full story. The development of Mac OS X was the development of iOS, and it was one-way.
      - robotresearcher 6mo ago
        How does that matter to where the attention is paid today?
        fchicken 6mo ago
        Everything (or 90%) on the iphone was taken from the mac and put into the iPhone. The software dvelopment for the PC environment, then stripped down and streamlined for the phone is why the iPhone was the revolution that it was. Apple, like you, can only think in terms of revenue and profit generated. "iPhone makes this much profit = iphone gets this much development". That thinking has led us into this stagnated crap, because it's a terrible way to do software. Worse, what's happening now is apple is taking its iThing software and trying to migrate it to the mac. The Mac is now getting destroyed by the iPhone development. That is the reason why.
        robotresearcher 6mo ago
        > Apple, like you, can only think in terms of revenue and profit generated. Wow.
lynndotpy 6mo ago
The thing where Linux (and Android, and Windows at least circa 2023) blows Apple out of the water is in UI latency. The built-in animations on Apple's software are sometimes hundreds of times slower than on their competitors, in ways which can't be accounted for. Improving interface response times is the single best thing Apple can do to improve their UX. I don't need an interface which throbs, wiggles, jiggles, shines, and refracts, I need an interface that's snappy and fast. As far as I know, MacOS is the _only_ desktop OS with this problem. The only way to fix this problem on MacOS is to do everything inside a virtual machine running anything but MacOS.
- dbmikus 6mo ago
  Yes, I hate how slow it is to swipe between desktop workspaces, for example.
  - shric 6mo ago
    Doesn't excuse it but in case you or other readers are unaware, there are some ways to mitigate it: https://arhan.sh/blog/native-instant-space-switching-on-macos/ https://arhan.sh/blog/native-instant-space-switching-on-maco...
  - honr 6mo ago
    Why would you use that feature? MacOS doesn't REALLY have multiple desktops (Spaces). That is merely a pre-release feature (for 10 years or so, I think). As evidenced by the many critical user journey bugs it has that don't get addressed. I use both linux (with a decent tiling window manager; the tiling management being the least important part of it) and macos. And certain things are just not possible to do with macos. On linux I can have 300+ open terminal windows AND CAN find the one I need when I need to. On macos 20 (counting in Termianl tabs, which are implemented as windows, underneath) is about the high mark that it gets annoying to work on. On macos, you can't effectively work on multiple projects that use the same software (editor + terminal, for example). You can work with different Applications, though, and that is managed pretty well (better than most linux window managers that I have seen). Every year or so I try adding a couple of Spaces, and always regret it a couple of hours later, switching back to a single Space (+ a few fullscreen apps).
apple4ever 6mo ago
> but the problem is, they were better in the past. So true. I run into so many little and annoying bugs I sometimes wonder if Apple Execs actually use their own devices.
stephenhuey 6mo ago
When Apple released its BSD-based OS X at the turn of the century, I was at Rice learning on Solaris machines, and also started dual booting Linux on my personal desktop at the time. My first few years in the working world were spent on Dells running Windows, so by the time I bought my first laptop in 2006, I was excited to spend my dollars on an unusual-looking white Macbook specifically because it had a *nix shell and the developer experience was vastly better to me than any machine I used at my day jobs. I still prefer working on Macs because ever since, they have just worked and Windows has gotten progressively worse (I know, because I have helped my parents with their Surface laptop). Unfortunately, Mac OS X has been less robust in the last several years, and I'd love to see them turn this around, both for the developer experience and for regular consumers. I still like using Photos, but I don't use their cloud for those, and I've been amazed over the years just how uninformative the Photos app on Mac can be when it flakes out and I have to try a rain dance just to get it to sync with my iPhone. That's pretty abysmal for a company that used to just work, but I believe it comes from the top. Steve Jobs used to enforce quality, and I want to see that again!
- gradstudent 6mo ago
  Similar experience here, started with the same G4 ("white") iBook. That was an amazing machine. Under the hood it was hard to distinguish many differences with Linux/BSD of the time. The UI on top (OSX Tiger) was peerless -- I recall being very excited for the introduction of Spotlight. I'd say the decline came around 2012-2013 or so. Hardware was still great, but they were no longer updating the GNU stuff and anti-features like SIP made it harder and harder to run the applications I want (gdb for example). I gave up not long after they introduced the touchbar These days I'm happier (or at least content) without a Mac. My FW13+Linux setup may not be as nice as the latest macbook, but it does exactly what I want and if it doesn't, I have options.
  - lukeh 6mo ago
    SIP is anti-feature for a certain class of users, but the right tradeoff for most consumers. At least you can disable it. And even as a developer I leave it enabled.
hei-lima 6mo ago
I agree with everything you just said. That’s exactly my take on it.
spaniard89277 6mo ago
I use both Linux and Macos, and I'd like to get rid of xcode or have something like Nautilus. There are many, many things that are completely normal in Linux that are super clunky in MacOS at best. But at least try to match Nautilus or Thunar ffs.
- dlahoda 6mo ago
  I use macos for dev. Not even install xcode tools, neither most apps via apple store.
ransom1538 6mo ago
We need thinner phones. We need 19 cameras. The future is clear.
dylan604 6mo ago
I've been using Apple since IIe in the 80s and all of the UI iterations. People make iOSification comments about macOS, and there have definitely been annoyances as they are seemingly trying to unify the UX. Maybe it'll make sense when they have touch controllable macOS systems, but making things that work well for fingertips and assuming they will work equally as well operating by a mouse is just bad. As for Linux, I don't think I've ever used a system with UI for any serious amount of time. >99.999% of my usage is on headless systems through a terminal. As god intended.
BiraIgnacio 6mo ago
True, it's better than most for sure and I agree it used to be better. Though a lot of other software for windows and linux are really not that great so the bar is probably on the lower end.
LeFantome 6mo ago
Linux benefits long term from the fragmentation that hurts it in the short-term. Competing projects means it is harder for software to go too far down the wrong road. Go to far and somebody emerges to replace you. And popular ideas emerge that others can copy from. With macOS, you really have no choice to use what Apple offers. You can hope they listen to dissent but they may not depending on priorities. And things have to be bad enough to jump platforms before real dissent registers. And things have to get pretty bad for that. Same issue with Windows of course. With GNOME, KDE, COSMIC, and the Linux rat pack, it is easy to switch experiences without ditching Linux entirely. And somebody has probably even patched your DE of choice to address the papercuts you do not like.
someguyiguess 6mo ago
They were also worse in the past at times. Lion was a shit show. Worst OS X release. And does no one remember the 90s?
ex_apple_mgmt 6mo ago
This hits hard. They were so much better. And have slid slowly into complacency, if not worse.
- fchicken 6mo ago
  I miss Steve :((
rjzzleep 6mo ago
> That's true, but the problem is, they were better in the past. You just have to look at their directors managing those software directions and you will exactly why it's become the mess that it is today.

antipaul 6mo ago

A Snow Leopard move, at least for iOS, is what's on deck: https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/15/ios-27-will-reportedly-be-like-mac-os-x-snow-leopard/ https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/15/ios-27-will-reportedly-...

ProfessorLayton 6mo ago
A major reason Snow Leopard was well received was because of how performant it felt along with the bug fixes. What isn't mentioned anywhere near as much is that it dropped a lot of hardware (PPC). The last G4 Powerbook got about 1.5y of OS support before it was dropped. iOS 26 is slated to drop a bunch of iPhone models. macOS is dropping all all macs with Intel CPUs. A Snow Leopard release isn't great news for a lot of people.
- selcuka 6mo ago
  > The last G4 Powerbook got about 1.5y of OS support before it was dropped. > macOS is dropping all all macs with Intel CPUs. Those two cases are not really comparable though, are they? The last Intel CPU Mac was the 2019 Mac Pro, which was discontinued in 2023.
  - ProfessorLayton 6mo ago
    Aren't they? The last Intel macs were being sold less than 3y ago, and by the time macOS 27 releases they'll be less than 3.5y old. The broader point is that a "Snow Leopard" release has historically resulted in a lot of hardware being left behind, and many of the devices that could have benefited the most from optimizations were cut off.
  - asimovDev 6mo ago
    they also used to sell 2018 intel mac minis alongside it for a while as well, didn't they?
    - selcuka 6mo ago
      Those were discontinued in 2023, too. I still think it's unrealistic to expect 8+ years of OS updates for a computer even if you purchased it 5 years after its launch date.
fchicken 6mo ago
Great... yet more attention on iOS
- robotresearcher 6mo ago
  Roughly 1.75 billion to 250 million installed OSes, according to public estimates. 7 to 1 ratio.
  - fchicken 6mo ago
    The numbers don't tell the full story. The development of Mac OS X was the development of iOS, and it was one-way.
    - robotresearcher 6mo ago
      How does that matter to where the attention is paid today?
      - fchicken 6mo ago
        Everything (or 90%) on the iphone was taken from the mac and put into the iPhone. The software dvelopment for the PC environment, then stripped down and streamlined for the phone is why the iPhone was the revolution that it was. Apple, like you, can only think in terms of revenue and profit generated. "iPhone makes this much profit = iphone gets this much development". That thinking has led us into this stagnated crap, because it's a terrible way to do software. Worse, what's happening now is apple is taking its iThing software and trying to migrate it to the mac. The Mac is now getting destroyed by the iPhone development. That is the reason why.
        robotresearcher 6mo ago
        > Apple, like you, can only think in terms of revenue and profit generated. Wow.

lynndotpy 6mo ago

The thing where Linux (and Android, and Windows at least circa 2023) blows Apple out of the water is in UI latency. The built-in animations on Apple's software are sometimes hundreds of times slower than on their competitors, in ways which can't be accounted for. Improving interface response times is the single best thing Apple can do to improve their UX. I don't need an interface which throbs, wiggles, jiggles, shines, and refracts, I need an interface that's snappy and fast. As far as I know, MacOS is the _only_ desktop OS with this problem. The only way to fix this problem on MacOS is to do everything inside a virtual machine running anything but MacOS.

dbmikus 6mo ago
Yes, I hate how slow it is to swipe between desktop workspaces, for example.
- shric 6mo ago
  Doesn't excuse it but in case you or other readers are unaware, there are some ways to mitigate it: https://arhan.sh/blog/native-instant-space-switching-on-macos/ https://arhan.sh/blog/native-instant-space-switching-on-maco...
- honr 6mo ago
  Why would you use that feature? MacOS doesn't REALLY have multiple desktops (Spaces). That is merely a pre-release feature (for 10 years or so, I think). As evidenced by the many critical user journey bugs it has that don't get addressed. I use both linux (with a decent tiling window manager; the tiling management being the least important part of it) and macos. And certain things are just not possible to do with macos. On linux I can have 300+ open terminal windows AND CAN find the one I need when I need to. On macos 20 (counting in Termianl tabs, which are implemented as windows, underneath) is about the high mark that it gets annoying to work on. On macos, you can't effectively work on multiple projects that use the same software (editor + terminal, for example). You can work with different Applications, though, and that is managed pretty well (better than most linux window managers that I have seen). Every year or so I try adding a couple of Spaces, and always regret it a couple of hours later, switching back to a single Space (+ a few fullscreen apps).

apple4ever 6mo ago

> but the problem is, they were better in the past. So true. I run into so many little and annoying bugs I sometimes wonder if Apple Execs actually use their own devices.

stephenhuey 6mo ago

When Apple released its BSD-based OS X at the turn of the century, I was at Rice learning on Solaris machines, and also started dual booting Linux on my personal desktop at the time. My first few years in the working world were spent on Dells running Windows, so by the time I bought my first laptop in 2006, I was excited to spend my dollars on an unusual-looking white Macbook specifically because it had a *nix shell and the developer experience was vastly better to me than any machine I used at my day jobs. I still prefer working on Macs because ever since, they have just worked and Windows has gotten progressively worse (I know, because I have helped my parents with their Surface laptop). Unfortunately, Mac OS X has been less robust in the last several years, and I'd love to see them turn this around, both for the developer experience and for regular consumers. I still like using Photos, but I don't use their cloud for those, and I've been amazed over the years just how uninformative the Photos app on Mac can be when it flakes out and I have to try a rain dance just to get it to sync with my iPhone. That's pretty abysmal for a company that used to just work, but I believe it comes from the top. Steve Jobs used to enforce quality, and I want to see that again!

gradstudent 6mo ago
Similar experience here, started with the same G4 ("white") iBook. That was an amazing machine. Under the hood it was hard to distinguish many differences with Linux/BSD of the time. The UI on top (OSX Tiger) was peerless -- I recall being very excited for the introduction of Spotlight. I'd say the decline came around 2012-2013 or so. Hardware was still great, but they were no longer updating the GNU stuff and anti-features like SIP made it harder and harder to run the applications I want (gdb for example). I gave up not long after they introduced the touchbar These days I'm happier (or at least content) without a Mac. My FW13+Linux setup may not be as nice as the latest macbook, but it does exactly what I want and if it doesn't, I have options.
- lukeh 6mo ago
  SIP is anti-feature for a certain class of users, but the right tradeoff for most consumers. At least you can disable it. And even as a developer I leave it enabled.

hei-lima 6mo ago

I agree with everything you just said. That’s exactly my take on it.

spaniard89277 6mo ago

I use both Linux and Macos, and I'd like to get rid of xcode or have something like Nautilus. There are many, many things that are completely normal in Linux that are super clunky in MacOS at best. But at least try to match Nautilus or Thunar ffs.

dlahoda 6mo ago
I use macos for dev. Not even install xcode tools, neither most apps via apple store.

ransom1538 6mo ago

We need thinner phones. We need 19 cameras. The future is clear.

dylan604 6mo ago

I've been using Apple since IIe in the 80s and all of the UI iterations. People make iOSification comments about macOS, and there have definitely been annoyances as they are seemingly trying to unify the UX. Maybe it'll make sense when they have touch controllable macOS systems, but making things that work well for fingertips and assuming they will work equally as well operating by a mouse is just bad. As for Linux, I don't think I've ever used a system with UI for any serious amount of time. >99.999% of my usage is on headless systems through a terminal. As god intended.

BiraIgnacio 6mo ago

True, it's better than most for sure and I agree it used to be better. Though a lot of other software for windows and linux are really not that great so the bar is probably on the lower end.

LeFantome 6mo ago

Linux benefits long term from the fragmentation that hurts it in the short-term. Competing projects means it is harder for software to go too far down the wrong road. Go to far and somebody emerges to replace you. And popular ideas emerge that others can copy from. With macOS, you really have no choice to use what Apple offers. You can hope they listen to dissent but they may not depending on priorities. And things have to be bad enough to jump platforms before real dissent registers. And things have to get pretty bad for that. Same issue with Windows of course. With GNOME, KDE, COSMIC, and the Linux rat pack, it is easy to switch experiences without ditching Linux entirely. And somebody has probably even patched your DE of choice to address the papercuts you do not like.

someguyiguess 6mo ago

They were also worse in the past at times. Lion was a shit show. Worst OS X release. And does no one remember the 90s?

ex_apple_mgmt 6mo ago

This hits hard. They were so much better. And have slid slowly into complacency, if not worse.

fchicken 6mo ago
I miss Steve :((

rjzzleep 6mo ago

> That's true, but the problem is, they were better in the past. You just have to look at their directors managing those software directions and you will exactly why it's become the mess that it is today.