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If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones
by twilo 6mo ago
If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago.
Low cost phones will be most affected.
- oybng 6mo agoIs 1000 cycles above 80% even possible without gimping the device like apple does with all its hardware?
- mschuster91 6mo ago> Low cost phones will be most affected. Not really. Take a 4000 mAh rated cell, advertise it as "rated for 3500 mAh" and that's it.
- LeonidasXIV 6mo agoIsn't this pretty much what Nothing are doing? At least one of their phones has a different battery rating in India than elsewhere, despite containing the same hardware.
- raverbashing 6mo agoFunnily enough I've had a "low cost phone" with replaceable batteries (the "old school way") So it does not seem a big deal
- Hamuko 6mo agoWish they'd have implemented it before the iPhone 14 Pro launched. I'm at 624 cycles right now and my phone's gone below 80% fucking ages ago.
- frizlab 6mo ago> The regulation states that batteries must be removable using ‘commercially available’ tools I’m pretty sure that’s more or less already the case, so…
- jkestner 6mo agoMy battery’s at 70%, I could replace it for $50, but I consider it a feature to get me off my goddamn phone more.
- 46493168 6mo agoApple’s replacement program is $99 for out of warranty battery replacement
- Hamuko 6mo agoNot really. The "estimated cost" on Apple.com is 139€ to 199€ depending on which company I take it.
- Schiendelman 6mo agoYou mean, other than Apple, where it is 99€. If you want cheaper, iFixit is usually less.
- Hamuko 6mo agoEven if I sent it to Apple, which would mean 1–2 weeks without my phone, it would be 109€ ("estimated costs" per Apple.com).
- Schiendelman 6mo agoThat's only shipped. In the store it's the price I listed. Unless you have local taxes on services.
- tim333 6mo agoI was wondering about that. I lost my iPhone 13 mini the other day, did the find my phone beep thing and got a distant beep from my washing machine which was on wash cycle. Surprisingly the phone was fine and works fine after a brief rinse under the tap. It must be hard to combine that sort of water resistance with easy user changing.
- mentalgear 6mo agoDon't fall for the 'glue cuz of protection' myth - there are and had been water-resistant phones way before Apple started glueing to avoid customers doing their own repairs and them losing out on new sales.
- Alupis 6mo agoWhich phones? I ask as someone that's had to replace multiple phones after a trip through the washing machine. Modern phone water resistance is incredible. I've even seen people literally swim with their phones and not even question if it was a bad idea.
- tencentshill 6mo agoSamsung Galaxy S5 was the last one that attempted it. IP67 with a removable back cover and swappable battery.
- Alupis 6mo agoYes, but IP67 is not nearly as water resistant as IP68, which all modern phones are for the most part. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if IP68 could be achieved in a phone without glue. There's no clamping mechanism for the backs, they're just press-fit with small clips.
- seba_dos1 6mo agoWho cares though? Sealing the battery in makes the device less drop resistant. I somehow managed to avoid water damage to my phones for decades, while none of my phones managed to avoid being dropped in a way that would most likely be fatal to them if their batteries were sealed in - and yet most of them survived to this day. A phone needs to handle some rain droplets falling on its screen, anything more than that is a gimmick that's not worth the downsides it comes with.
- Bad_CRC 6mo agoAnd what about if 4 years they says that they have dettected a problem in your battery? A new battery should fix that but now you cannot do it properly because it could do 1000 cycles. This same thing happened to Pixels 6a after 500 cycles.
- raw_anon_1111 6mo agoThen don’t buy a phone from a company with a piss poor record of customer service. Just looking in maps, there are three Apple Stores within a 45 minute drive from where I live in central Florida. The situation is worse in my hometown in South GA admittedly, you have to drive 70 miles for same day service for an authorized repair place - mostly Best Buy.
- Samson_Corwell 6mo ago> Then don’t buy a phone from a company with a piss poor record of customer service. That is not an argument.
- raw_anon_1111 6mo agoIt’s a perfect argument- use your own agency and intelligence to choose products from reliable companies instead of depending on the government. It’s like complaining about items from TEMU aren’t high quality and expecting the government to do more.
- Bad_CRC 6mo agoApple has now a great record of customer service?
- raw_anon_1111 6mo agoYes. Every since the first Apple Store opened.
- loremium 6mo agoWhat if they don't? What if there are manufacturer errors? What if they burn your battery with updates along the way?
- ebbi 6mo ago> What if there are manufacturer errors? Typically that's subject to some sort of recall or remediation through a service centre?
- HunOL 6mo agoIsn't like most of the new phones claim at least 1000 cycles?
- proee 6mo agoThis could be "fixed" right now by a software update that limits the maximum charge level to 80% of capacity. However, this comes at the cost of how many minutes of runtime your phone can operate. So manufactures might just responds to this by making your phone heavier with a bigger battery that is being under utilized.
- zbrozek 6mo agoThis sounds great. I would've loved to have set my phone to charge up to only 60% or 80% of its design capacity to reduce wear. I do this on my laptop.
- spockz 6mo agoIt has been on iPhones for quite some while, but on androids even longer. Before that it was in the form of some smart charging scheme that it would only finish charging until the moment it thought you would unplug it.
- stanac 6mo agoI charge my s25 to 80%. Previous phone (pixel) was also limited to 80%, but radio stopped working after 2 years so I had to buy a new phone.
- zormino 6mo agoSame for my s24, 80% battery limit and slow charging at night (most of my charging). It's been over 2 years and the battery seems to last just as long as day one
- layer8 6mo agoIt makes a bit of a difference, but not dramatically: https://youtu.be/kLS5Cg_yNdM?t=3m26 https://youtu.be/kLS5Cg_yNdM?t=3m26 In that experiment, it’s also unclear if the 30% lower limit or the 80% upper limit is more important. I suspect the former.
- lxgr 6mo ago
- Aurornis 6mo agoThe goal should be reducing e-waste, and honestly this seems reasonable. I’d rather get the additional structural rigidity, compactness, and weatherproofing that comes from the tight construction and then pay $99 to have Apple professionally install a new battery for me in 3-4 years. Forcing everyone’s iPhone to take all of the tradeoffs of replaceable batteries so some people can save $50 to replace their own battery isn’t a good deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if forcing all phones to have easily replaceable batteries would result in a net increase in e-waste due to the additional failure modes introduced. Even if batteries were easily replaceable I think most iPhone users would have Apple do it for them anyway. I’ve also replaced some iPhone batteries myself and it’s really not that bad if you are familiar with taking modern electronics apart. Apple will send you the entire toolkit if you want complete with a return label.
- nottorp 6mo ago> and then pay $99 to have Apple professionally install a new battery for me in 3-4 years In 3-4 years yes, but how about in 10-15 years? Apple will refuse to take your money then. > Apple will send you the entire toolkit if you want complete with a return label. Which is malicious compliance. They should allow the friendly neighborhood repair shop to purchase a toolkit so you can choose who does the repairs for you.
- nine_k 6mo agoWill we even have a compatible wireless standards in 15 years?
- nottorp 6mo agoProbably. I mean, I don't even remember what standard my home wifi is on. It works, it's fast enough. Sometimes I think about upgrading the AP but why bother?
- nine_k 6mo ago3G was up for about 20 years, between roll-out and shutdown. LTE has been up for 15 year in the US as of now. Chances are it may not be up after another 15 years.
- mzmzmzm 6mo agoI wonder if this is part of why Apple is behind most competitors in terms of fast charging. Would almost make marketing sense to come out and say it at this point.
- rootusrootus 6mo agoAre they behind? AFAIK the Pixel and the iPhone both typically charge in the ~25W range but can support up to ~45W.
- cyberdick 6mo ago[flagged]
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- george_perez 6mo agoWhere did you see this? Can't see that in the article or a quick search on the rules PDF.
- iso1631 6mo ago1000 cycles is barely 3 years, that's far too low a number
- 0xffff2 6mo ago1 Cycle is discharging from 100-0 and charging from 0-100, regardless of how many times the phone is charged, so for a user that averages 50% battery drain each day, 1000 cycles would actually be ~6 years. I have no idea what the actual average is, but I'm betting that 1000 cycles is at least 4 years for the average user and possibly significantly longer.
- formerly_proven 6mo agoCycles to fixed capacity loss vs. depth of discharge is basically a straight line in a log-log plot. The advantage of shallower cycles is exponential.
- jandrewrogers 6mo agoCycles are not days. My 7 month-old phone is currently sitting at 55 cycles. At that rate it would take me ~10 years to reach 1000 cycles. It isn't quite that linear in practice but realistically it will still be at least 5+ years.
- cdmoyer 6mo agoMy phone is from December 2023, so 28 months and is at 842 cycles (and 85% max capacity). So, about 33 months at this rate.
- AdrianB1 6mo ago6-7 years for me on the current phone, double on the previous one. 7 years is a good limit.
- manquer 6mo agoThis is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1,000 cycles and retain 80% battery. Specifically - B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) . Here is the link - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32023R1670 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Article 11 of the new regulation (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32023R1670 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...) covers exemptions but nothing to do with 1,000 cycles or Apple as far as i can see.
- parl_match 6mo ago> This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices It was not said that Apple was exempted. What was said is that Apple complied with the exemption rules.
- calf 6mo agoIt was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication. The replier then pointed out the exemption rule is outdated therefore the implied consequence is wrong and the original line of reasoning was misinformation, and thus would be the greater error. Humans
- parl_match 6mo ago> It was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication It really, really wasn't. All it said is that Apple became compliant with their current offerings. Now you're contorting to dig your heels in, so I think this conversation is over. Have a good day.
- calf 6mo agoIt really, really was. It's the most basic type of logical implication. It said: IF BatteryCycles THEN Exempt. BatteryCycles(Apple). By first order logic modus ponens this results in: Exempt(Apple) This is basic math literacy by now. The fact that you do not seem aware and are being confidently rude about it is worth pointing out. Don't do that on HN. This is still a tech forum so try to respect rational discussion as we all abide by these shared rules in this space.
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- pezezin 6mo agoThis is wrong, the new regulation doesn't have any exceptions regarding the number of charge cycles. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02023R1542-20250731 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...