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Amazon won't release Fire Sticks that support sideloading anymore
- croes 7mo agoSo goodbye FireTV sticks. Getting worse on every metric isn’t a system seller
- echelon 7mo agoEverything is a platform play. I think it's grossly unethical and negligent that our DOJ/FTC allowed them to acquire film studios, subsidize them with outside business unit profit, put ads across their own properties, then give it all away for "free". This destroys actual healthy industries. They bought Lord of the Rings for egregious sums, emblazoned ads on all of their delivery vans, printed it on their packaging, and put it front and center on all their apps. Any other studio would be out a billion dollars on that. Then Amazon just gives it away. How do you compete with that? Meanwhile Warner Bros has to fight an uphill battle to reach the same eyeballs, spend a fortune on production and advertising, and then ask customers for their money. Why would they go to theaters when they can get it for free on Prime later? Or just watch one of the shows already on Prime? And of course now Amazon has offshored the jobs, further put consolidation pressure on the industry, gobbled up more studios... Every single one of these giants needs to be broken up. They are a cancer in search of more growth, and unfortunately in order to find that growth they are killing the host (healthy American industries and jobs).
- PunchyHamster 7mo agoI mean by that they should burn most the VC funding to the ground, because for vast majority of companies that try to take market space where there is some competition around, that's exactly the play, run long enough at loss that you get enough market share, make the walled garden if possible, then gouge prices up once the VCs come asking for payoff
- NickC25 7mo ago>I think it's grossly unethical and negligent that our DOJ/FTC allowed them to acquire film studios, subsidize them with outside business unit profit, put ads across their own properties, then give it all away for "free". This destroys actual healthy industries. Film & entertainment is not the only area in which Amazon engages in this type of behavior. They need to be broken up, and Bezos needs to pay his taxes.
- cyanydeez 7mo agoOn the plus side, they'll probably vibe code a bunch of security vulnerability and the highseas will be filled with a new generation of pirates!
- ranger_danger 7mo agoHow does this work when apps use GPLv3? Isn't the user supposed to be given a way to replace/update the code themselves?
- varispeed 7mo agoBut Amazon has infinite money, so licences are meaningless.
- 15155 7mo agoGPLv3 doesn't entitle you to signing keys or the ability to remove them: you can release, compile, and inspect the source which will ostensibly still be provided - but not practically use it on the hardware you purchased.
- mananaysiempre 7mo agoIt very much does. > “Installation Information” for a User Product means any methods, procedures, authorization keys, or other information required to install and execute modified versions of a covered work in that User Product from a modified version of its Corresponding Source. The information must suffice to ensure that the continued functioning of the modified object code is in no case prevented or interfered with solely because modification has been made. > If you convey an object code work under this section in, or with, or specifically for use in, a User Product, and the conveying occurs as part of a transaction in which the right of possession and use of the User Product is transferred to the recipient in perpetuity or for a fixed term (regardless of how the transaction is characterized), the Corresponding Source conveyed under this section must be accompanied by the Installation Information. But this requirement does not apply if neither you nor any third party retains the ability to install modified object code on the User Product (for example, the work has been installed in ROM).
- yjftsjthsd-h 7mo agoOkay, I'll bite. What do you think is the difference between GPLv2 and 3?
- bigyabai 7mo agoBoy, I sure am glad that HN contributed to the vilification of sideloading.
- janice1999 7mo agoDon't worry, I'm sure they'll find a way to blame the EU for this too.
- Retr0id 7mo agoHow so?
- collabs 7mo agoSearch iPhone or app store on this website. Read the comments.
- fhdkweig 7mo agoYou will have to be way more specific. Every time I see a post bringing up the topic of sideloading (like this one), it is a complaint that either another product is locked down or Google itself is trying to lock everything down.
- bigyabai 7mo agoLook at the flippant dismissal in these threads (follow the discussions - don't just scroll past the parent comments). There's a shocking amount of disagreement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28561941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28561941 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24146987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24146987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39132453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39132453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43421740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43421740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29167948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29167948 Here's a few of the worst-aged comments, from a glance: Absolutely no need to wail and rant about Apple and their App Store practices constantly. Just use Android. You don't hear about 14 million iPhones being infected by malware But this is the argument with the cookie banners again, isn't it?
- BFV 7mo agoSideloading was basically the main reason people picked Fire Sticks over more locked-down options. Without it, it just becomes another closed streaming box, and a lot of the “power user” appeal disappears.
- kennethrc 7mo ago"Basically the main reason"? I can count among my friends and family some 50 Fire Sticks, and we're all happy with them, as they do what they say on the box. We Tech folks (and some more than others) live in a bubble, but the other 99% of the users couldn't care less about this.
- spwa4 7mo agoIf that's true, then why would Amazon ever care about this?
- mlloyd 7mo agoBecause those folks don't move the needle on sales. They're buying one, maybe two firesticks and using them OOB. I'd bet a significant portion of sales go to people 'jailbreaking' them and buying in bulk.
- spwa4 7mo agoThen this would be stupid. Obviously if the product stops doing what people want (jailbreaking, not sure what the scare quotes mean) sales will plummet.
- kennethrc 7mo agoPressure from rights holders or law enforcement? Amazon has sold ~250M Fire Sticks; there's just no way most of 'em aren't used by regular people as vanilla FSs
- xnx 7mo ago> Sideloading was basically the main reason people picked Fire Sticks over more locked-down options. Any advantage to a Firestick over a Chromecast with Google TV?
- j45 7mo agoIs this supposed to stop Android folks?
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- pjmlp 7mo agoVega OS isn't Android, Amazon has moved away from it. It is a Linux distro, and apps must be written in React Native (C++ libraries supported), or Web.
- j45 7mo agoAh, appreciate the clarification. I am guessing there's better devices out there now than a Fire Stick
- newsclues 7mo agoIt’s to avoid making it easy for people to buy them put on plex or jellyfin clients and paying for access to pirate services.
- fishgoesblub 7mo ago"Sideloading" is just a term to make installing software on your own hardware sound scary.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- NoPicklez 7mo agoI disagree. It's a term simply used to describe installing software not through the official channels. You'd be lying if you said it was normal practice sideloading applications to your mobile phone. The majority of people are used to installing apps through their respective platform stores. Which is why there is a term to name that practice outside of installing apps through the Google play store, for example. We don't use that term on PC because it is the normal practice and our norms have evolved around that. Over time if sideloading becomes normal practice, we will stop calling it that and start calling it installing or downloading like we do normally.
- fishgoesblub 7mo agoThere is no "official channels" on systems that allow installing software packages. Android for example, has no "official" channel because all stores just download and install APKs, like the Play Store, and FDroid. The same way you can go to a Github page and download an APK through your browser and install it. The only "official channel" I would say is the system APK installer.
- NoPicklez 7mo agoBut to do that on many Android devices you need to specifically enable that in the settings. You have enable installing what Android calls "unknown" apps. I don't really care about the technicalities of it. The point still stands that sideloading is a term referring to installing software outside of the vendors preferred method. It doesn't mean its bad, its just the term used on devices like mobile phone where the installing of software has been traditionally more locked down to specific shopfronts. The term being born more so out of Apple than Android to begin with.
- mattmaroon 7mo agoMeh. These sorts of restrictions are a problem with cell phones because you have two choices. For this application, you can just get a raspberry pi for about the same price. And they’re not even taking it away from ones that I already had it. They just aren’t selling the ability anymore so you know it when you bought it.
- john01dav 7mo agoWhoever ends up using these devices second hand will be in for a rude awakening, which is bad for that person (even if it means that it just ends up going to ewaste and they get nothing) and bad for the environment. It's also bad for anyone who orders one new and isn't aware of the changes, although I agree that that is less bad than with phones due to the fact that a pi largely mitigates it.
- pjmlp 7mo agoYeah, but then you are not the target audience, watching Amazon Prime and Netflix on the Raspberry Pi.
- gschizas 7mo ago> For this application, you can just get a raspberry pi for about the same price. Are you able to run Netflix (or any other Widevine-based software) on a Raspberry Pi?
- y-c-o-m-b 7mo agoI'm personally seeing an explosion of people embracing piracy. People that were previously vehemently opposed to it (like my in-laws) are now pirating large amounts of content. The rise in streaming service costs while simultaneously reducing catalog content is pushing a lot of these folks over. What we have now is almost worse than cable TV, so it makes sense.
- add-sub-mul-div 7mo agoAlmost worse? Cable doesn't have unskippable commercials, we've had the DVR since 1999. In 1999 it was still possible for a new tech product to be user friendly. Streaming was designed from the ground up to be user hostile with surveillance and reduced control over the video stream. People hold onto old specious ideas and don't update them.
- pjmlp 7mo agoWhich is why my parents record they favourite shows on cable, and watch them later, fast forwarding over ads.
- dylan604 7mo agoIf you're under the notion that your digital cable box wasn't surveilling you, then you just weren't paying attention. Of course that box knew what channel you were watching and what time meaning they knew what you watched since your name and address and phone number and email address were all linked to that box.
- hdgvhicv 7mo agoWhen Amazon introduced adverts, I Cancelled. Went from near $1k a year on Amazon as a whole to nearly zero. I still pay for Netflix, Disney, Apple, Spotify and bbc. I’m happy to pay for my entertainment, I refuse adverts. When Clarkson farm came back I looked at re subscribing to Amazon, there were three choices, all with adverts. I’m sure it makes money, but for me you get greedy and you lose money.
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- yjftsjthsd-h 7mo agoSo does the fire stick have any advantages over Walmart's Onn streaming sticks?
- kotaKat 7mo agoOf one note, Walmart realized that they were in the running to be the next "Android TV piracy platform stick" and Walmart has already gone to the efforts to region-lock the devices to only be set up and used in the US... https://www.aftvnews.com/onn-streaming-devices-now-must-use-a-vpn-to-be-set-up-outside-of-the-us/ https://www.aftvnews.com/onn-streaming-devices-now-must-use-...
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- dataflow 7mo agoWhat's the best Fire Stick model that doesn't have this issue?
- Jordan-117 7mo agoEither the HD, 4K Plus, or 4K Max. Just avoid the Select for now (though there will be more models with the new OS in the future).
- an0malous 7mo agoI don’t know how, but somehow this is Apple’s fault
- gdulli 7mo agoHow could you not know the argument that Apple has normalized selling devices that forbid the ability to run arbitrary code without their permission? You're not required to agree that that's a bad thing, but how could you be unaware of the reasoning at a high level?
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoYes because video console makers haven’t been doing this since the 1980s…
- an0malous 7mo agoI mean for starters it’s obviously not true. Almost every electronic device has programming and none of them allow you to run your own arbitrary code. Video game consoles, MP3 players, drones, roombas, TVs. In fact Apple is the one that pioneered the idea of a “personal computer” in the first place, there was no expectation that you could program your devices before this.
- NoPicklez 7mo agoThis is in no way Apple's fault.
- spwa4 7mo agoThis sort of thing brings back the late 2000's in Europe. Governments demanding devices "don't support piracy". Tech giants (really: Microsoft) responding, kind of, and failing.
- burnt-resistor 7mo agoThe one of most important things alternative app stores allowed on Fire Sticks was the ability to change the apps remote buttons invoked rather than whichever dumb partners Amazon foisted on its users. Now, it becomes a jail break necessity for reusing and freeing locked-down corporate garbage. Oh and a hack to remove home screen ads or replace the home screen launcher would be awesome.
- ottah 7mo agoThese devices and services are not nearly as sticky as these greedy lizards want to believe they are.
- like_any_other 7mo ago> In the fall, Amazon started blocking apps that the Alliance for Creative and Entertainment, a global anti-piracy group, has blacklisted. I love how corporations are building an ecosystem where they don't have to bother with courts or the police, they can just ask each-other to limit what citizens, sorry, consumers can do. Fortunately they also spy on us profusely, which makes it less likely they get it wrong when those restrictions are used in more punitive ways.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoAll of the streaming devices except for the AppleTV are sold at or below cost subsidized by advertising. If you care about a good streaming devices with anything above bottom of the barrel hardware and you don’t want to buy an Apple device, get an Nvidia Shield.
- datahack 7mo agoCool. Hope they enjoy having one less customer.