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My UV sterilizing lights make my room smell like O3 Ozone and that smells nothing like spent gun-powder to me. The only other time I have smelled the same thin
by Bender 7mo ago
My UV sterilizing lights make my room smell like O3 Ozone and that smells nothing like spent gun-powder to me. The only other time I have smelled the same thing is when there has been mass lightening events in the sky. Were they talking about actual black powder or nitrocellulose? I've smelled black powder at the range when people bring out their antique rifles and that also does not smell like Ozone to me.
- coffeebeqn 7mo agoPhotocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone’s forgotten the smell
- Bender 7mo agoPhotocopiers smell like ozone when they run if anyone’s forgotten the smell Those are similar but sweeter. If I sterilize a room with UV it has a very distinct smell like nothing else aside from lightening and stun guns. I would UV the bathroom right now but then I have to vent the entire house and its 34F outside right now.
- echelon 7mo agoI don't think any of you should want to be smelling Ozone. Diatomic oxygen is already a highly reactive fuel that is killing us and giving us cancer every single day. The ozone species is even more oxidative. Oxygen is how we move about the energy gradient, but it's also killing us. Ozone is worse. "Air purifiers" with ionization are probably not worth the squeeze.
- Bender 7mo agoAbsolutely. I vent the house after running UV lamps using a 4400 CFM air mover. I leave the house and run errands. I have 3 of these [1] They have a remote control that "arms" them and it starts beeping slow, the faster, then much faster then activates. It kills insects be destroying their lungs and entirely destroys mold, bacteria and even damages viral material. Hospitals run the same lamps in wings that they close down for sanitation. The entire area has to be 100% vented. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/AeraLight-Whole-Surface-UV-Sanitizer/dp/B0GHT3PBM5/ https://www.amazon.com/AeraLight-Whole-Surface-UV-Sanitizer/...
- alfiedotwtf 7mo agoI worked for a germaphobe, and he put one of these ozone-injecting air purifiers in our tiny office. Every morning I would walk in and it felt like I was walking into a thunderstorm from the smell. No gunpowder, just thick ozone
- cyberax 7mo agoIn general, if you can smell ozone, you should NOT be in that place.
- alfiedotwtf 7mo agoYep! When he refused to not turn it off each day, that was the day I updated my resume and GTFO
- heavyset_go 7mo agoHow does this affect surfaces like walls, finished wood furniture and floors, plastic, paint, etc? I imagine it will cause some material to off-gas aldehydes at the very least.
- vintermann 7mo agoI don't think off-gassing is a problem, ozone treatment is famously how they get rid of cigarette smell in used cars, furniture and whole apartments. But I would worry about the effect on e.g. plastic seals. There are a lot of plastics that become brittle with ozone exposure, let alone UV exposure.
- heavyset_go 7mo agoI imagine the UV energy itself weathers surfaces like the sun does, but at different scales. It's probably not enough to matter from the lamps. "Hot car smell" is plastics in the car releasing volatile gas from the heat and sunlight, and surfaces in general fade, peel and crack from sun exposure over time. Thought maybe something like that would happen with different exposed materials to the lamps.
- dmurray 7mo agoAside from "killing us and giving us cancer every single day", isn't "diatomic oxygen" the stuff we breathe every single minute and need to survive? I'm not normally one to miss the sarcastic or satirical posts, but this one seems oddly earnest.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago> isn't "diatomic oxygen" the stuff we breathe every single minute and need to survive? I think they're referring to oxidative stress [1] caused by cellular respiration. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidative_stress
- heavyset_go 7mo agoPart of aging is the result of oxidation of DNA over time and as cells reproduce.
- Brian_K_White 7mo agoYes and it wasn't sarcastic, both things (what you said and what they said) are simply true. I think their point was not to be alarmist like you should stop breathing, but simply that everyone knows the one thing and most people don't know the other thing, and it gives scale or context to the "you don't want extra ozone".
- echelon 7mo agoThe other posters here are right. I just wanted to point out the odd beauty in the fact that the fuel that makes our biology possible is also one of the things that is killing us. If you get a chance, read up a little bit on redox reactions and oxidative stress and take a moment to appreciate that. We harness the energy of oxygen. It's the fuel that powers us. But it's also so reactive that it's constantly damaging our DNA and intracellular components. Over time it ages us, causes cancer (daily - our biology fights back!), and will ultimately be part of what wears us down and kills us. Look at oxygen as a very reactive and energy abundant fuel. And then consider its abundance in our atmosphere. And then how it powers human locomotion, human biochemistry. And how it creates free radicals and chain reactions that strip our DNA and mutate base pairs. And all the tens of thousands - no, countless more - interactions and reactions it's having all throughout our bodies at all times. And how our biology evolved compensation measures to keep those deleterious effects at bay for as long as possible - as long as necessary - to enable reproduction. Our biology is utterly awe-inspiring when you think about it. An incredible machine molded by our gravity well and abundantly available energy. Not just fighting against entropy, but actively sailing its turbulent energy gradients.
- KennyBlanken 7mo agoThe permissible exposure limit for ozone is 0.1 PPM. The IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health) level for ozone is five ppm. That's half of chlorine which is 10 ppm. Most major brand air purifiers put out a very minimal amount; the ionization is beneficial because it makes the really tiny (and thus most hazardous) particles clump and fall/stick to surfaces faster. It's the offbrand units that generate lots of ozone to make people think they're "doing something", and commercial ozone generators for car/room deodorizing, that you have to be extremely careful with. Those need to be set up and then the room left for hours for the ozone to react with stuff, and then ventilated thoroughly.
- vintermann 7mo agoI don't trust most air purifier manufacturers. They totally would add a fancy-sounding feature which sounds good, even if it has negligible effect, or even negative effect. Case in point: they're still pushing ultrasonic humidifiers. The tiniest particles aren't necessarily the most dangerous, so even if "clumping" worked as advertised, it wouldn't necessarily be good. Air filters are worst at filtering particles at about 0.3 microns, they're better at filtering smaller ones (I understand it has something to do with brownian motion). I wouldn't be at all surprised if a similar thing affected our biological "filters". Either way, if you have a filter, you don't need UV to clean air. Just push more air through it if you need cleaner air faster.
- colechristensen 7mo agoYou might be smelling the oxidation of biologicals via ozone and UV might have the same chemical effect
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- rrr_oh_man 7mo agoSide quest: Can you tell more about the UV sterilisation thing? Why do you do that? How often? Where? It seems like such a specific thing to do.
- Bender 7mo agoI primarily use them in the bathroom to kill off mold and bacteria about once every 3 months. I open up the water heater closet, drawers, etc... then I fire one of them up. I've used them in other places but the more they are used the more I have to vent the house.
- rrr_oh_man 7mo agoHas anything prompted you to do this? Have you been doing this for a long time? Have you noticed any changes (yes, I assume?!). Sorry for pelting you with questions, but this is so... interesting and I'm tempted to give it a shot.
- Bender 7mo agoTwo of you are curious [1] [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47812225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47812225
- genewitch 7mo agoHi, i am not who you asked, but i feel like i've done enough research and have some warnings. UV-C light itself is antimicrobial, but only for surfaces that the light touches, and in the case of cloth it needs to penetrate a bit. There are at least two types of UV-C light bulbs, as well as literal ozone generators that use ceramic platen and a fan. The type of UV-C bulb that is most common on Amazon and Ali is ~254 nanometers, and _does not_ produce Ozone. It does leave a smell, but it's more like an oldschool hospital antiseptic smell. probably the smell of the dead germs, yay. Now 185nm is actually the correct size to turn O2 around the bulb into O3 (and more oxygens too, i once read, i think, kinda like cracking hydrocarbons to make longer chains or something). UV-C bulbs (not base, which is an edison base) that can sterilize a room in 5-15 minutes are about 15-20 CM tall, with four crystal tubes that are connected together standing up on the base. image here [0] you must run a fan over them if you want your money's worth. they get hot, the bases get hot, it makes the most sense in non-carpeted rooms to aim the crystal down and the base up, so that is real rough on them. that took me 2 bulbs to figure out. If you can find a reputable place to get the box with ceramic and a fan that lasts more than 5 minutes, let me know, because that's closer to what i want for bedrooms and stuff. The UV-C 185nm bulbs work great to make a car stop stinking, too! completely removes cigarette smells, if the car hasn't been smoked in for a while. run the A/C full blast and run the bulb for 15 minutes, open the windows for 5 minutes, roll em, sniff. Still smell? another 10 minutes, in the back seat, full A/C blasting. vent, sniff. Faint smell? replace the cabin air filter. Charge customer(?) and i'm going to respond to your followup question to the GP as well: Covid. Obviously. They were telling us it would live on groceries and deliveries and that, so i put all deliveries in my laundry room and dosed em with UV-C for a minute. CDC or whatever studies said that 10-60 seconds was more than enough to kill sars-ncov-2. I only use it for freshening cars, rooms, bathrooms, etc now. WARNING: Do not be in the room with any UV-C light for more than a few seconds. Do not look at the bulb for literally any more than necessary to ensure it is on and safe. they make safety goggles that wrap your entire eye sockets to protect from UV, too. if you get a 185nm bulb, either completely ventilate the room with fresh air, or leave it sealed for 60 minutes then open it up for a few minutes, all the ozone reacts and goes away or something. UV-C hurts your skin, yes, but it will make your eyeballs literally itch. so don't, don't don't look at it. they are not blacklights. [0] https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71LgjON7J+L._AC_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71LgjON7J+L._AC_.jpg
- KennyBlanken 7mo agoThe only thing you're doing by sterilizing your house like that is making your immune system weaker. Humans are built to withstand a constant assault on their immune systems. We couldn't have survived if we didn't.
- VoidWarranty 7mo agoCareful. The venn diagram bubble depicting your statement overlaps heavily with the anti-vaccine bubble. Its a bit naieve to claim that cleaning one's home will result in an extinction of enough microbes so as to be threatening to our immune system.
- b65e8bee43c2ed0 7mo ago[flagged]
- mjmas 7mo agoSee: Polio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_polio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_polio > [...] Better hygiene meant that infants and young children had fewer opportunities to encounter and develop immunity to polio. Exposure to poliovirus was therefore delayed until late childhood or adult life, when it was more likely to take the paralytic form.[22]
- Bender 7mo agoNothing strengthens an immune system like a weekly furry party or attending "tough mudders" events.
- manwe150 7mo agoThat’s because the parent claim is known as the hygiene hypothesis and has been disproven by science, in common with anti vaccine claims. The immune system has not been shown to benefit from training, but has been shown to be damaged by illness.
- vixen99 7mo ago
- LoganDark 7mo agoBrushed DC motors (as in some drills, toothbrushes, etc.) emit ozone. Some light switches also create ozone-producing electrical arcing if you hold them perfectly between the on and off positions, or slowly cross the midpoint. (Less easy with the newer-style, less accessible rocker switches.)
- saltcured 7mo agoI also associate ozone with some electric motors, I think because they have brushes that arc during operation. Older power tools I encountered in the 1980s often did this, and you could see the blue arc if you looked into the vents at the right angle.
- aduty 7mo agoBrushless motors are popular now, but if you get the cheaper cordless tools they'll still have brushed motors. I have some Black & Decker 20V ones that do it. They tend to have less torque but I don't need Milwaukee or Makita tools just for diy around the house.
- mr_toad 7mo ago‘Ozone’ is the smell of ionisation, ‘gunpowder’ the smell of oxidisation.
- IAmBroom 7mo agoHalf right. Gunpowder is mostly the smell of sulfur compounds.
- corysama 7mo agoThe ozone report was specifically about space walks. The gunpowder report was about moon walks. Presumably, moonwalks would also have some ozone like the space walk did. But, maybe the burning-moon-dust gunpowder smell was a lot stronger than the vacuumed-metal/paint ozone smell.
- lifeisstillgood 7mo agoSorry for the tangent, but you sterilise a whole room with UV light? Is that efficient ? Do you do it after tidying / cleaning ? Is there a medical reason for the extra part? Is it just cool :-)
- Bender 7mo agoThe house came with a bacteria that would normally be hard to get rid of. UV, bleach and peroxide took care of it. I just repeat the process to ensure there is no bacteria or mold. This seems to bother people in this thread which I find fascinating. A part of me wants to bring my black light to their dwelling.
- vl 7mo agoI have mold problem in one of the bathrooms. What would be your recommendation? Seal off bathroom and run UV, then vent? Or do I need to do entire house? I can also seal off bathroom and bedroom. Thanks!
- blub 7mo agoNo, UV is unrelated to your issue. First you need to figure out if it’s a surface infestation because of condensation or if it’s a constructive thermal bridge. The latter can be solved by raising the surface (wall, ceiling, etc) temperature through insulation or more inefficiently special heaters designed for this purpose. In both cases, the contaminated material is removed down to the plaster or masonry. Wood, wallpaper and similar materials will likely be deeply contaminated and must be removed. For areas larger than 1 sq meter, it’s better to get a specialized contractor which will use HEPA vacuum cleaners, special bags, etc to ensure that the mould spores don’t spread in other rooms. For small areas the agents of choice are bleach or hydrogen peroxide, both available in products for home use.
- blub 7mo agoWas it from flooding or how did it get there? How did you detect it?
- adrian_b 7mo agoI assume that they talk about black powder. The dust that comes from meteorites contains up to 4 fractions: silicates, which cannot be oxidized, metallic iron, which oxidizes, but it does not form volatile substances that can be smelled, hydrocarbons in the form of a tar or pitch, which can burn but it cannot be ignited easily, and finally a fraction made of iron sulfide (troilite) with small quantities of other sulfides. In contact with air, the sulfides will be oxidized, releasing sulfur dioxide. Burning black powder also releases sulfur dioxide, which is the main reason for its smell. Burning pure sulfur will produce the same smell.