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Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack
- silexia 6mo agoTo stop AI now, you would need an absolutely totalitarian government. I am a libertarian but AI will kill us all unless we get an absolutely totalitarian government.
- babelfish 6mo agohttps://archive.is/eLssu https://archive.is/eLssu
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago[flagged]
- s5300 6mo ago[dead]
- rvz 6mo agoWell folks who know about the Unabomber manifesto by Ted Kaczynski will see this attack as unsurprising, and Sam knows this sort of attack was expected; false flag or not. It is not okay. But if we don't have any solution to the ramifications of what really is "AGI" then it unfortunately won't be the last. Welcome to "AGI".
- threatofrain 6mo agoPeople can think of ML on a government level, but it has an inescapably international dimension as a kind of gunpowder-like discovery. Relatedly, if war becomes increasingly automated and cheap, then civilian targets will be seen as obvious. As we discuss policy ideas to pump the breaks on a domestic level, I hope we balance that against the arms race that's happening around the world.
- donkey_brains 6mo agoI think you have to be at least remotely a sympathetic figure to be a martyr
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> you have to be at least remotely a sympathetic figure to be a martyr No you don’t. Terrorists and dictators are routinely martyred. You just need symbolic value. The actual person rarely represents their canonized form.
- echelon 6mo agoI have a few predictions for this year: 1. Violent attacks against AI CEOs, researchers, and engineers is going to begin. This is due to widespread negative press that AI receives and as well as a pervasive feeling of economic uncertainty and doom in the population. Some of this being caused by the current administration's leadership, but much of it attributed to AI taking jobs and destroying opportunity. 2. Violent acts taken against non-tech CEOs will increase hand-in-hand. 3. If AI continues to demonstrate impressive new capabilities for automation, this rate will increase substantially. 4. The government may come down hard on these individuals, which will further inflame the situation. 5. Data centers will come under attack / sabotage. 6. This will all wind up further inflamed by prediction markets. I have a colleague at Anthropic that refuses to put it on his LinkedIn. We all now know why.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo agoIf violent attacks start metastasizing, it legitimately justifies a police crackdown. Most of the population will be for that. The pro-Palestinian activists set their cause back a year by overplaying their hands in Columbia at the start of the war. If we want to ensure zero AI legislation for the next 2 years, I couldn’t think of a better way to ensure that than to start potting randos in the streets.
- d3ff 6mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> the sentiment for many is that 'we don't care we have nothing to lose anyway' Everyone says this before they learn what they didn’t value. Peace, for example. > Its easy for you to say, all perched up as a VC It’s easy to say for anyone who has read the history of political violence. When that comes on the table, universally [1], the people with power also have the power to raise armies. The people who stand to benefit from violent insurrection, today, are the oligarchs. This happens every time because it’s obvious. If CEOs getting killed is normal, then activists against those companies getting killed is normal too. A lot more people will kill for a million dollars than because they hate some guy. [1] Apart from early 20th century Communist revolutions, where elites actually suffered.
- Fricken 6mo ago[flagged]
- ares623 6mo agoNew Zealanders are just as pissed as everyone else btw.
- fundad 6mo agoI think you mean he has a bunker in New Zealand because he expected so much violence. I don't think anyone should engage in violence (or property damage) like this.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- TurdF3rguson 6mo agoThe fact that he would rather live in an underground bunker (than simply not let things get that out of hand) says a lot about his humanity.
- testaccount28 6mo agodo you hold Altman solely responsible for everything on earth?
- TurdF3rguson 6mo agoNo, just the things his company does.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> that he would rather live in an underground bunker He isn’t, never has and never will. I know some of the bunker people. They basically have them in the way you or I might have a fancy tool in the garage or piece of art. It’s a discussion piece for a different class of wealth.
- avaer 6mo agoIn case someone reading this is thinking similar thoughts: there's no version of reality where doing this will solve any problem. Don't.
- s5300 6mo ago[dead]
- d3ff 6mo agoIts not really about that though is it? The people who are doing this stuff are unhinged but why? Perhaps they do not trust law and order. Perhaps they feel helpless and have been led to believe its over for the labour class due to the overhyped marketing and so on. A serious frank conversation needs to be had and the hyping needs to stop.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo agoThey’re some combination of deranged, depressed and looking for a thrill. In most countries they fail to stab someone. Here they have guns.
- add-sub-mul-div 6mo agoBefore passing judgment consider that while you may have the privilege of posting from a country that's never had to fight for relief from tyranny, that's not necessarily the case for others.
- d3ff 6mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> that's not necessarily the case for others Totally agree. I’m speaking to cases in America. If you’re in a rich country broadly at peace with competitive elections to any degree, and you’re choosing violence, you should vacation to e.g. Burma or Sudan or Libya or Ethiopia and see the cost of the violence you’re glorifying.
- achierius 6mo ago[flagged]
- tptacek 6mo agoI have never once seen someone on HN express happiness that someone was killed in a drive-by gang shooting.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago[flagged]
- akerl_ 6mo agoI think the point was that people are willing to be happy about this happening to tech CEOs but would not express the same about a gang shooting.
- fzeroracer 6mo agoI saw this all the time when ICE was doing their business in Minneapolis. That was only a few months ago and it doesn't take too long to dig and find some truly odious posts.
- achierius 6mo agoWell for one, nobody was killed here. But second of all, sure -- because Hacker News are not the class of people involved in drive-by gang shootings; to most of us they are essentially abstractions, barely more real than the trolley problem. If you went around asking people who knew a guy that was shot, you'd eventually find someone who said he had it coming -- he got involved with the wrong guys, he shot at one of them first, he did something he shouldn't have (a common thread: the livelihood of the people involved). This is obviously atrocious: nobody should go around shooting people on the streets. But we can recognize that both are playing with fire, and understand the violence in that context -- such that the solution to gang violence is not, "moralize at the gang members until they stop shooting eachother", but rather "improve socio-economic conditions until they stop wanting to". So yes, there are elements of HN's population that will cheer these events on. But this should not be surprising -- the ruling class is playing with fire.
- granzymes 6mo agoPolitical violence is not acceptable in a democracy. Full stop, no "but". That's all that needs to be said on this thread.
- infamouscow 6mo agoAn election is two (or more) armies going to the ballot box to see who has more numbers. Nothing more.
- poszlem 6mo agoI agree. Is the US still a democracy, or already an oligarchy?
- drekipus 6mo agoThis is the point. You can't call yourself a democracy just because we can change the colour of the same bus every 3 to 4 years
- hx8 6mo agoThe more we treat it like a democracy, the more democratic it is. The more we treat it like an oligarchy, the less democratic it is.
- poszlem 6mo agoTreating a rigged game as fair doesn't make it fair, it just makes you easier to beat.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> Treating a rigged game as fair doesn't make it fair, it just makes you easier to beat Not playing at all makes you easier to beat still. Anyone pining for civil war should vacation in a war zone first. It’s difficult to encapsulate the privilege of peace until it’s been lost.
- Avicebron 6mo agoViolence won't solve anything, everyone is worse off.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> Violence won't solve anything Violence can solve problems. This kind of violence is stupid, counterproductive and immoral. Strategically deploying violence takes time, resources and discipline. Wanking off with a gun does not.
- Teever 6mo agoWhen do you think that we will see the first successful strike on a CEO with a drone?
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> When do you think that we will see the first successful strike on a CEO with a drone? Right before we see drone body guards and protest monitors gun down innocent bystanders.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- esbranson 6mo agoViolence solves problems every day. Worse off is relative. I think you mean to qualify your statement.
- ares623 6mo agoPolice employ violence all the time and I think we who are okay/well off all agree that they solve our problems every day. What us cushy engineers haven't realized yet is that the gradient for who are well off are sliding more and more towards one end. Sooner or later engineers will be on the wrong side of that gradient.
- abcde666777 6mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> it's hard to sympathize with someone like Altman The thing about rights is you believe in them universally or you don’t believe in them at all. If we have a right to life, sympathy isn’t relevant. Awful people can be awful, but if we start compromising their rights then we deface all of our freedoms and security.
- abcde666777 6mo agoI consider rights a functional abstraction. That is to say, they're useful, we should abide them as a tenet of a civilized society, but we also made them up. And importantly we all recognize that they're conditional - if you cross certain lines of conduct you lose them - and there's actually a lot of debate to be had about where those lines are. So I disagree with your axiom that you have to believe in them 100% or 0%.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> all recognize that they're conditional - if you cross certain lines of conduct you lose them - and there's actually a lot of debate to be had about where those lines are One hundred percent of those debates end at process, not unilateral action. If it can be unilaterally nullified, it is no longer a right. > you have to believe in them 100% or 0% Not degree but range. We don’t have a right to infinite life or medicine. But everyone has to have the same level of right for it to be a right. Otherwise I can disagree with your right to a right and nullify it on my own terms.
- abcde666777 6mo agoJust to clarify, here's my actual position - it was only implied in the first comment so I'll spell it out: 1. We shouldn't kill or harass or destroy the property of someone like Altman. AKA, I'm not in disagreement with your take on abiding by the laws of the land. 2. But it's not surprising that such things happen to individuals like him, for reasons outlined. Put it this way - if I was in his position, I would be very wary of my public image, and I'd be very wary of my intentions - am I acting for the greater good, or only for my own good? Of course it's possible he's actually acting with the best of intentions and is just terrible at presenting himself, which is one of the reasons I'd agree with due process and respecting his rights.
- GeoSys 6mo agoAny word on the motivation of the attach? Any manifesto or a group taking responsibility?
- ares623 6mo ago[flagged]
- doom2 6mo ago[flagged]
- StayTrue 6mo agoSam Altman the war contractor? I assume they are no longer called defense contractors under this administration.
- tim333 6mo agoIt is something that the sticking point with Anthropic was autonomous AI killing machines and turning the military AI on the US population. I could see people not being happy with that.
- odshoifsdhfs 6mo ago[flagged]
- hgoel 6mo agoCrazy, as bad of a person as I think Altman is, he isn't even the worst AI CEO. But even the worst of them doesn't deserve this.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- glerk 6mo agoI've been seeing some version of "Sam Altman is the antichrist" on every platform in the last few weeks. I'm still trying to find concretely what makes this guy so bad compared to every executive out there. So far, all I could find is: - OpenAI made a deal with the Pentagon (fair) - OpenAI changed their business model from non-profit to for-profit (fair?) - Sexual assault allegations by his sister. Sam Altman denies this and it's currently before a court. - Overpromised AI to investors (everyone does this) - Lobbying against regulations (I support) - Some vague accusations of "being a liar" and a "sociopath" by his competitors Ilya Sutskever and Dario Amodei. - He doesn't know how to code (lol) Is there anything that I'm missing? Does he put ketchup on his pizza?
- hgoel 6mo agoFor me, he's an awful person for the smarminess in the pentagon deal (the DIC is too entwined with American industry to bemoan making any deal at all), the business model change, the behavior described in that recent article, the 180 on how he and OpenAI consider AI ethics, and the way he's gone about overpromising. It'd be one thing if he was just promising more than he could actually deliver, but he went further, making promises of buying up unrealistically large chunks of the global RAM supply, causing everyone else to suffer, with no remorse. There's also WorldCoin. I don't think a decent person would continue to push such an awful, untrustworthy system. This is a supposedly privacy-focused project that several countries are investigating for privacy violations and has been found to be in violation of privacy laws in some of them. It's almost as if he goes out of his way to do as much harm to the world as he thinks he can get away with while maintaining the facade of just doing business. I don't think he's the antichrist, I think Peter Thiel is the closest to deserving that description.
- lrvick 6mo agoLook, I think Sam Altman is a terrible person too, but to anyone reading that hates people like him as much as I do you should want him alive while we work to build a world where he can live out a long life in complete safety, in prison. Violence never solves anything. You will never make anything in this world better by becoming a worse person than your enemies.
- bb88 6mo ago[flagged]
- operatingthetan 6mo ago>Why is this newsworthy? Is this a bit?
- michtzik 6mo agoLiterally all of your comparison events are so newsworthy that they have individual Wikipedia articles.
- maplethorpe 6mo agoI feel like Altman's PR team is dropping the ball. We somehow need to get the word out that AI tools will benefit all of humanity, not detract from it.
- pharos92 6mo agoI don't think AI is benefiting humanity when you consider: - It's heavy use in military and surveillance engagements - The billions+ spent, yet no economic gains were noted - The pressure on white-collar jobs The threat to AI far exceeds any benefits I can see.
- maplethorpe 6mo agoDid something change? HN has always been very pro-AI until recently, and now it seems to have swung dramatically the other way. Not one comment even agreeing with me.
- kelipso 6mo agoWhen they’re saying that most people will be unemployable in a few years and there is no plan to fix that…in a country where you go hungry and homeless without a job, people will get a bit restless.
- maplethorpe 6mo agoAltman has made suggestions on how to fix this. I believe his main one is for AI to be subsidised so that it remains free for public use. The public could then use those free tokens to enrich themselves and offset any negative societal impacts.
- kelipso 6mo agoThis is obviously unworkable and delusional. Not sure what kind of worldview would produce this type of idea and see it as practical. Maybe more exposure to normal people is needed instead of being insulated in the AI filter bubble.
- nickvec 6mo agoAltman needs to sell off that house and move to an anonymized address. I don’t see these attacks letting up any time soon. Two targeted attacks in three days is nuts.
- qgin 6mo agoHow long could a public figure have a hidden address? It doesn't seem practical.
- mrdependable 6mo agoMore likely he will have a new contract with some private security firm.
- nickvec 6mo agoSome poor security guards are going to end up getting gunned down.
- mrdependable 6mo agoI was thinking more like Blackwater, not standard security.
- potsandpans 6mo agoMaybe he can build a moat, and a well fortified structure on the inside, with a little draw bridge to let people in.
- josefresco 6mo agoOr he could move to a military base like several prominent administration officials.
- Bender 6mo agoHaving lived on military bases that is a false sense of security. That's one gate guard away from a problem. They make mistakes. There are far better options he can afford.
- zaradvutra 6mo ago[flagged]
- dctwin 6mo agoThe layoffs haven't even really started yet... I'm very worried about the next two years
- wolvesechoes 6mo agoSomewhat funny to read all these holy, well-tamed, moral people condemning violence with most dumb, ungrounded "violence bad" that cannot even hold a second of scrutiny. Yes, violence shouldn't be the first resort, and when violence is unleashed innocent suffer as well, but there is a great difference between choosing not to use violence due to whatever consideration, and being so toothless and tamed that a sight of dog that finally bites when being constantly beaten sickens you.
- bad_username 6mo agoWhere violence is acceptable as a tool, it empowers "cruel humans" on average much more than "beaten dogs".
- ramon156 6mo agoIf you are getting bombed by the opposing country, is a ballot going to stop that? We're not on first resort anymore, people are dying because they cannot afford living.
- cindyllm 6mo ago[dead]
- samrus 6mo agoTrue, but at one point the calculus shift to justifying that risk. Basically when the beaten dogs outnumber the cruel humans by alot
- qmr 6mo agoI agree. A lot of commenters who have probably had privileged lives and never faced a situation where violence was, in fact, the answer.
- sph 6mo agoAnd they live in a country where the industry of violence is the largest slice of government budget.
- petterroea 6mo agoNot a proponent of this, but it's worth understanding that a certain part of the population believe once AGI is reached the world will change, and whoever reached it first wields all power. The increase in usability of recent models has no doubt shocked them. With such a mindset it does make sense to consider it a life or death thing. I can understand that some people think attacking these companies is the only way of protecting themselves from a whole different and much less dignified life. I don't know if they are right, neither in world view nor conclusion. But it seems this is the world we currently lived in. This is one of the cases where for once i wish there was a manifesto to read, because i badly want to understand why
- simianwords 6mo agoPrediction: the general populace have internalised Marxism to such an extent that they think class warfare is the solution to everything. You get comments like "violence is bad but we would not have $x if not for violence" and then you get to justify violence for any pet cause they have. I expect to see more of this until it dies down because of how ridiculous the premise is.
- senordevnyc 6mo agoAgreed, and also now any actions people don’t personally agree with that have a negative effect on someone (which is everything) can be labeled “structural violence”, so they can claim to have a moral justification for physical violence. It’s disgusting and breathtakingly stupid.
- agentifysh 6mo agoThis is unacceptable and a growing issue in America, anti-AI has become just another focal point for the far end of the political spectrum to rally and ultimately radicalize violence.
- camillomiller 6mo ago[flagged]
- ramon156 6mo agoYou're so right, only the Wealthy are allowed to infiltrate homes!
- UncleMeat 6mo agoDon't forget the cops.
- ost-ing 6mo agoWhat is unacceptable is how these technology companies steal the IP of collective humanity, gate keep it and force us to pay a subscription service to use it against each other in a perverted downward spiral powered by capitalist game theory. The neoluddite revolution is forming, have no doubts about that.
- Findecanor 6mo agoI don't think it is obvious which "far end" of the political spectrum you are referring to. I have seen anti-AI sentiments from people known all over the spectrum.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- treebeard901 6mo agoOnly a matter of time before ChatGPT of the future sends a terminator back in time to protect and/or stop him...
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- s_trumpet 6mo agoI am seeing information about the attacker that show he was being influenced by Rationalist thinkers - he posted about “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” by Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares. This information of course might be false, so take the words below with a grain of salt. I might be completely wrong. When an influential group in the Valley that has ties to many tech companies spends years speading rhetoric about “bombing data centers” or the title of the book above, I fear this kind of psychosis is inevitable. People in this thread are focusing on labour and AI issues as the motivation but I am afraid the problem might be closer to home. Disclaimer: I am not American, just an outside observer.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- specproc 6mo agoUnfortunately, no one is an outside observer when it comes to America.
- ben_w 6mo agoYudkowsky, like Altman, isn't a great public speaker*: too close to the in-group, not aware enough of how the words he uses are understood by people who don't already Get It. Ironically for AI safety, I think Yudkowsky and Altman are, if not on the same page, extending the metaphor they're on the same chapter. Some random people with a gun and a Molotov aren't even the same (metaphorical) book. * likely still better than me though, even on this specific measure. But even being the ten thousandth best speaker on the planet, out of 8 billion, leaves you at a huge disadvantage compared to the best. > bombing data centers At the risk of demonstrating the exact mistake I've just accused Yudkowsky and Altman of: With B-52s, not as a DIY job with home-made Molotovs. If you start with the claim "AI has the potential to cause as much harm as nuclear weapons", and "the USA already uses B-52s to enforce the non-proliferation treaty", this follows naturally. If you're not willing to call on your representative to sign a binding international treaty to stop data centres that forcefully, talking about "stopping AI" or "pausing AI" seems hollow, because even if your government agrees to not build data centres near you as a result of low-grade domestic terrorism, in the absence of a credible threat to use a B-52 on someone else's sovereign territory there's nothing that you and your flaming rag in a bottle of petroleum distillate can do about them being built outside your country, in exactly the same way and for exactly the same reasons that German public opposition to nuclear weapons completely failed to influence North Korea.
- novia 6mo agosama, i know the odds of you seeing this are very low, but i'm so sorry you're being targeted like this. you don't deserve this. i recently saw you do a q&a with francois challet and.. after it was over, you went to your car very quickly and you were driven away. i think these days you must think a lot about your safety and the safety of your family and i wish it didn't have to be that way. wishing you and your family all the best.
- ch_fr 6mo agoViolence against datacenters or AI company CEOs is very bad, they must be allowed to fail organically so that they don't have any excuse. The last thing I want is for someone, in 2029, to say "but LLMs just weren't given a fair chance last time, we would have definitely reached AGI with more funding if it wasn't for [targeted attack]"
- 0x073 6mo ago"they must be allowed to fail organically so that they don't have any excuse." Didn't work for a german political party some centuries ago, don't work for this. But violence is false.
- yomismoaqui 6mo agoRight now your comment is the 1st response for the 1st comment. Godwin's law speedrun I guess.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- montjoy 6mo agoSomewhere I read that vigilanteism arises when there is a perceived last of justice. This guy gets rich while people everywhere are losing jobs. Seems about right.
- montjoy 6mo agoI should have been more clear- I’m not endorsing violence- just noticing a probable correlation.