7 ms·

South Korea introduces universal basic mobile data access

422 points by saikatsg 6mo ago

jl6 6mo ago
> the scheme will provide over seven million subscribers with unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire. Does this mean it’s not a universal entitlement as such, because you presumably first have to pay for a plan with an allowance? (Not to mention having to pay for a device).
- pixel_popping 6mo ago
  I think despite needing money, it can still be considered a right, IDs cost money but you have the right to have them, and I'm pretty sure it means it could extend to government paying for it eventually (depending on your social class I guess).
  - Joker_vD 6mo ago
    Ah, so it's like the right to own jewelry (historically, there have been places where only nobility could legal own and wear it): you have the right to buy them, no one would stop you or take them away from you, but you still need enough money to buy it. I imagine the same applies to the rights to live, to have access to water, and to receive medicine help (which is IIRC is why the Soviets claimed they refused to sign the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: they argued for their version of the declaration that would actually bind the stated to make sure those goods/rights are actually universally provided; incidentally — and it's one of the examples they've actually used — that would mean that e.g. printing political leaflets for distribution, falling under free speech and political distribution, would also have to be paid for by someone. As you may imagine, most of the other countries weren't particularly fond of the idea that they'd end up themselves financing the printing and distribution of Communist propaganda).
  - SoftTalker 6mo ago
    Something being a right does not mean that it will be provided for you. It simply means the government will not infringe on that.
    - travisjungroth 6mo ago
      The provided rights are called positive rights, and the not infringe rights are called negative rights. Freedom of speech is a negative right and a right to legal counsel is a positive right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
      - SoftTalker 6mo ago
        Thanks, yes I didn't really think about that distinction. I would say that "positive rights" is a fairly modern concept, for example the right to legal counsel was not originally a positive right, that was something that was determined by a series of court decisions in the mid-20th century. Most rights are still in the "negative" sense, i.e. things that cannot be prohibited or limited, or only narrowly so. But in this case, a "right" to mobile data is just an entitlement that the people/governemnt decided to provide. The article isn't loading for me but I'm assuming this was not a constitutional change establishing this new specific right.
        throwup238 6mo ago
        > I would say that "positive rights" is a fairly modern concept Not really. “To no one will we sell, deny, or delay right or justice” in the Magna Carta has long been interpreted as much a positive right requiring the Crown to actually provide for justice rather than just a negative law to refrain from abusing it. There's also several clauses requiing royal justices to hold assizes in the counties and set procedures for hearing disputes which is a duty to maintain legal machinery. Heirs, widows, and wards were promised specific legal treatment, such as a widow’s immediate right to her marriage portion and inheritance, and limits on abuse by (non-state) guardians which are affirmative entitlements within feudal law. Even Rome had the grain dole (the bread of “bread and circuses”).
- qingcharles 6mo ago
  The USA has affordable broadband schemes (I think current setup the gov pays $9.25/mo towards your connection) and IIRC pretty much every broadband provider has a plan at exactly this cost to provide the minimum legal definition of "broadband".
  - bombcar 6mo ago
    Imagine how wonderful it’d be if the US had fiber to the home that would trickle at 1-10mb/s even with no subscription- but you could subscribe with any provider for more. Ah, the dream.
  - fhn 6mo ago
    You mean the USA had affordable broadband: "The Affordable Connectivity Program stopped accepting new consumer applications and enrollments on February 7, 2024....On January 11, 2024, due to a lack of additional funding from Congress" [1] I think SK did the right thing. Access to information is important even at 400kbps which is pretty darn fast considering some people grew up running 56kbps and never complained. 1. https://www.fcc.gov/affordable-connectivity-program https://www.fcc.gov/affordable-connectivity-program
    - hypercube33 6mo ago
      That was before websites were 40MB or more of garbage though so keep that in perspective. Also broadband here is supposedly 100mbps and giving more people access should drive cheaper Internet but also being America we have ISP monopoly by choice per city so I'm not sure any of the economics pans out.
      - joecool1029 6mo ago
        > That was before websites were 40MB or more of garbage though so keep that in perspective. Video is really where you feel sub-megabit connections limiting (youtube and social media). Sites not so much. But yes, it's a problem.
    - qingcharles 6mo ago
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- alt227 6mo ago
  In most countries you can either sign up for contracts with regular data allowance, or buy pay-as-you go phones which require topups. It sounds like if you bought a pay-as-you-go sim card in Korea that it would immediately give you the slower unlimited connection without needing to pay for allowance first.
- fhn 6mo ago
  they gave you a slow lane on their network, whether you can get onto their network is your issue. Phones aren't particularly expensive, I bought mine used for $60 and I've found plenty of working smartphones literally on the curbs. Should they buy you a car and a house too?
- p_stuart82 6mo ago
  yeah 400 kbps is almost the easy part. you still need a line, a handset, and apps that still run on the cheapest phone around. hard to call that universal in practice.
- techsystems 6mo ago
  Yes it does, but you probably need a bit of context. They already have free Wi-Fi in every bus stop, train stations, government buildings, etc. like clocks, thermometers, air quality sensors, etc. The free Wi-Fi is very high quality, where you can watch 4K videos without stutters in most places (1080p for other places). This is more about basics instead of luxurious/entertainment purposes, where if they run out of data on their contracts, the companies must provide data, albeit slow, still, where government provided Wi-Fi can't reach. 400 kbps is good enough for AI text streams, so it's a policy blend for their recently trending slew of AI policies. I should also mention that it's a compromise from the telecom companies for recent incidents.
  - ksec 6mo ago
    >The free Wi-Fi is very high quality, Haven't been to SK in recent years, but assuming quality as it is Fast, how does the log in system work? My main problem is not speed with modern public WiFi, especially in recent years enterprise WiFI 6 and coming WiFi 7 have gotten much better with signals and receptions. But simply just to use it. It is at least 3 - 5 steps to have it log in. And the login only works 95% of the time. Do we have something where a single click of a button and within 100ms we are in? Or even better without even doing anything? I have yet to seen one in real world.
    - muneeer 6mo ago
      Here in SK it’s actually pretty straightforward. Places like subways, buses/bus stops either use secured WPA/WPA2/WPA3 Wi-Fi with a shared password or open Wi-Fi where you just tap once to connect.
Leomuck 6mo ago
Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea? My assumption so far was that there are those who use the internet, they're usually fine, and those that don't - they won't benefit much. But no idea about South Korea. Anyway, cheaper and unlimited access is always a good idea!
- calvinmorrison 6mo ago
  There are many such schemes for low income households in the united states to subsidize internet access for students. There were some federal and other programs. Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.
  - qingcharles 6mo ago
    The federal plans still exist, and the wires are already there in most homes, so most providers offer a tiny plan to fit the subsidy.
  - grahamburger 6mo ago
    I work with a US non-profit that has provided both free and very low cost Internet access over the last 4 years (fixed home wifi, no phone). We have primarily used 4G/5G, including private networks built and owned by the non-profit, public/private partnerships with cities that own a 4G network, and now primarily very low cost wifi hotspots serviced by a major carrier.
- edent 6mo ago
  At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites. (I was part of the team working on that proposal.)
  - 6mo ago
everdrive 6mo ago
Seems nice but is actually a terrible move. It's another step towards the presumption that everyone should have a smartphone.
- kube-system 6mo ago
  Communication access is a universal need and does not necessarily require smartphone usage. The US has had universal access programs since at least the mid 80s
- HarHarVeryFunny 6mo ago
  That's like saying that using tax dollars to pay for roads assumes that everyone has a car. MOST people do use things like government/taxpayer funded roads, public transportation, water, healthcare, etc that are considered as basic necessities. As far as everyone needing a smartphone, or e-mail address, that ship has already sailed. Here in the US, try using "Parkmobile" without a mobile phone.
  - hoppyhoppy2 6mo ago
    Parkmobile lets you call their customer service number to pay for parking, so (assuming that process actually works) you would indeed need a mobile phone, but not a smartphone.
  - everdrive 6mo ago
    > That's like saying that using tax dollars to pay for roads assumes that everyone has a car. Well once the government subsidizes roads they proliferate it and becomes more difficult to exist without a car. Your example supports my argument. >try using "Parkmobile" without a mobile phone. I would never, ever try using "parkmobile"
    - hoppyhoppy2 6mo ago
      My city's public parking lots, garages, and street parking use Parkmobile to collect payment, and AFAICT that kind of arrangement is not terribly unusual. I suppose anti-parkmobile drivers could stick to the few overpriced privately-owned lots in town, though. If you're saying that you don't drive, then congrats, and I hope to catch up to you soon.
Leftium 6mo ago
> unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire This is not new. Many Korean mobile plans actually offer even higher unlimited throttled speeds (up to 10 Mbps!) - You can filter plans by the unlimited throttled speed on this site. The plans are usually titled by `{data amount} + {throttled speed}`: https://www.moyoplan.com/plans https://www.moyoplan.com/plans - Even if not throttled, I think data overage charges were capped at about $13 (20K KRW) So perhaps unlimited 400 kbps will become standard: i.e. no plans will ever charge data overage fees? --- The linked statement didn't seem to specifically mention the 400 kbps thing at all.
anthk 6mo ago
I'd perfectly live with a forever free connection with about 16/32 KBPS. It can do lots of stuff in text mode. Not for video or big files, but enough to fill some pages. That would mean accesible web pages, and forget about JS based captchas and the like.
- throwawayk7h 6mo ago
  It'd be great if this moves developers to consider optimizing for lower-end connections.
- Telaneo 6mo ago
  One the one hand, yes. On the other hand, it's unreasonable to have to wait 5 minutes to download a 1 MB government PDF form. I guess they too can be optimised so they aren't all that bad, but they often aren't. What can't be optimised is having to upload an image of that form with a signature on it, or whatever else it may be.
OsrsNeedsf2P 6mo ago
[dead]
shevy-java 6mo ago
This is actually a really great idea. There should also be universal terminals that people can access on public places or so, even without having a smartphone ready. Now here in Germany we'll wait for decades for this to happen. For some reason Merz gave up on Germany.
- WhyNotHugo 6mo ago
  Libraries often have publicly usable terminals with Internet access. That's not the case in Germany?
  - qwertfisch 6mo ago
    Not everywhere is a library. Today I visited the main city library of Bremen, and it has only media search terminals in kiosk mode. But there is of course free Wi-Fi, so if you have a smartphone, there should be no problem. There are also some libraries with open access 24/7 using a membership card. Cities have a lot of free wi-fi locations, but outside of urban areas you would need some kind of mobile or landline rate. The latter has relatively cheap flatrates (as little as 20€ including phone flatrate). Mobile access can be much cheaper, but then if your traffic volume is emptied you only get 64 kbit/s.
flowerthoughts 6mo ago
This would be huge for IoT. It'll obviously be abused to send "metrics" (a.k.a. private data to be sold) by companies, but still. I hope there's no limit on SIM cards.
iririririr 6mo ago
brazil and india had these since 2012. brazil was .25/24h of internet at top (4g) speeds then. which is like $7/mo max. until the gov elected with a steven banon campaign dropped the mandatory plan. the plan was a punishment for companies not maintaining payphones after getting the spectrum monopoly, which was a requirement on the auction.
Terr_ 6mo ago
To quote something from a favorite fiction-series, where someone is visiting a relatively backwards planet: > "Poor?" said Cordelia, bewildered. "No electricity? How can it be on the comm network?" > "It's not, of course," answered Vorkosigan. > "Then how can anybody get their schooling?" > "They don't." > Cordelia stared. "I don't understand. How do they get their jobs?" > "A few escape to the Service. The rest prey on each other, mostly." Vorkosigan regarded her face uneasily. "Have you no poverty on Beta Colony?" > "Poverty? Well, some people have more money than others, of course, but... no comconsoles?" > Vorkosigan was diverted from his interrogation. "Is not owning a comconsole the lowest standard of living you can imagine?" he said in wonder. > "It's the first article in the constitution. 'Access to information shall not be abridged.' " -- Shards of Honor (1986) by Lois McMaster Bujold
- Terr_ 6mo ago
  To turn to other, much older publications... The US Constitution was written ~230 year ago, when the state of the art was carrying letters by horse, and it explicitly authorized making a public service to provide it scale, which became the US Postal Service. If the same ideals and priorities had been applied against today's technology, we'd have the US Networking Service. Certainly not a deluxe ISP (even today USPS exists alongside other package companies and couriers) but an affordable baseline available to all residents.
  - SecretDreams 6mo ago
    I completely agree with this sentiment. Good luck getting anything like that locked, sadly.
    - DaiPlusPlus 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - andrekandre 6mo ago
        there are many democrats who would block such a thing as well. historically there is always the one or two who (perhaps too conveniently?) block or water down legislation: joe lieberman against public option [0], two democrats block student debt relief [1], the dynamic duo of manchin and sinema blocking voting rights legislation and build back better [2] [3]... you don't need to blame republicans for democrats sabotaging themselves over and over. [0] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/12/joe-liebermans-medicare-dodge/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/12/joe-liebermans-... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-block-student-debt-cancellation-biden-relief-2023-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-blo... [2] https://apnews.com/article/biden-voting-rights-bill-collapses-27c888b4f9bf876520913d7036a942b0 https://apnews.com/article/biden-voting-rights-bill-collapse... [3] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/manchin-says-he-no-biden-s-build-back-better-legislation-n1286281 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/manchin-says-he-no...
classified 6mo ago
Every country should do that.
emilfihlman 6mo ago
As a Finn this data allowance is pretty funny to me (though of course not unknown). Here most subscriptions are unlimited.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
cawksuwcka 6mo ago
[flagged]
hsbauauvhabzb 6mo ago
Part of me is all for this but I also get the knee jerk reaction of ‘if something is free, you’re the product’ What’s in this for the for profit companies? wouldn’t this cannibalize sales to the demographics that would be buying a cheap prepaid plan if it doesn’t already exist? Maybe i live less chronically online (but still on my phone) than most, but having spent a few weeks in Japan. I’ll assume prices are similar due to localities, similar-enough cultures and densities. My partner and I shared a 3gb SIM and wifi tethering because of the pricing and lack of need for on demand data (we download movies to our devices when on a high speed networks). I would be fine on 400kpbs while away from hotels and public wifi, and I imagine many tourists will be in the same boat, killing a lucrative segment of the market.
m463 6mo ago
[dead]
trendbuilder 6mo ago
[flagged]
linzhangrun 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Mali- 6mo ago
  This comment is every policy discussion. I like [X POLICY] but [Y POLICY] would be miles better. Although [Y POLICY] is much further reaching and has never been tried at anything like the scale of a country, it's sort of similar to [Z POLICY] - which was tried for 2 years.
rldjbpin 6mo ago
this does not come across that impressive beyond the surface. however, given the market inefficiencies (see Twitch saga over double charging of bandwidth [1]) despite having some of the fastest and (relatively) affordable internet has always made it an interesting case study. throttled speed beyond cap is something i've grown up seeing since the ADSL days, but mandating it across the handful of providers can perhaps help with the odd Line text or two. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38539167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38539167

422 points by saikatsg 6mo ago

jl6 6mo ago

> the scheme will provide over seven million subscribers with unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire. Does this mean it’s not a universal entitlement as such, because you presumably first have to pay for a plan with an allowance? (Not to mention having to pay for a device).

pixel_popping 6mo ago
I think despite needing money, it can still be considered a right, IDs cost money but you have the right to have them, and I'm pretty sure it means it could extend to government paying for it eventually (depending on your social class I guess).
- Joker_vD 6mo ago
  Ah, so it's like the right to own jewelry (historically, there have been places where only nobility could legal own and wear it): you have the right to buy them, no one would stop you or take them away from you, but you still need enough money to buy it. I imagine the same applies to the rights to live, to have access to water, and to receive medicine help (which is IIRC is why the Soviets claimed they refused to sign the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: they argued for their version of the declaration that would actually bind the stated to make sure those goods/rights are actually universally provided; incidentally — and it's one of the examples they've actually used — that would mean that e.g. printing political leaflets for distribution, falling under free speech and political distribution, would also have to be paid for by someone. As you may imagine, most of the other countries weren't particularly fond of the idea that they'd end up themselves financing the printing and distribution of Communist propaganda).
- SoftTalker 6mo ago
  Something being a right does not mean that it will be provided for you. It simply means the government will not infringe on that.
  - travisjungroth 6mo ago
    The provided rights are called positive rights, and the not infringe rights are called negative rights. Freedom of speech is a negative right and a right to legal counsel is a positive right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
    - SoftTalker 6mo ago
      Thanks, yes I didn't really think about that distinction. I would say that "positive rights" is a fairly modern concept, for example the right to legal counsel was not originally a positive right, that was something that was determined by a series of court decisions in the mid-20th century. Most rights are still in the "negative" sense, i.e. things that cannot be prohibited or limited, or only narrowly so. But in this case, a "right" to mobile data is just an entitlement that the people/governemnt decided to provide. The article isn't loading for me but I'm assuming this was not a constitutional change establishing this new specific right.
      - throwup238 6mo ago
        > I would say that "positive rights" is a fairly modern concept Not really. “To no one will we sell, deny, or delay right or justice” in the Magna Carta has long been interpreted as much a positive right requiring the Crown to actually provide for justice rather than just a negative law to refrain from abusing it. There's also several clauses requiing royal justices to hold assizes in the counties and set procedures for hearing disputes which is a duty to maintain legal machinery. Heirs, widows, and wards were promised specific legal treatment, such as a widow’s immediate right to her marriage portion and inheritance, and limits on abuse by (non-state) guardians which are affirmative entitlements within feudal law. Even Rome had the grain dole (the bread of “bread and circuses”).
qingcharles 6mo ago
The USA has affordable broadband schemes (I think current setup the gov pays $9.25/mo towards your connection) and IIRC pretty much every broadband provider has a plan at exactly this cost to provide the minimum legal definition of "broadband".
- bombcar 6mo ago
  Imagine how wonderful it’d be if the US had fiber to the home that would trickle at 1-10mb/s even with no subscription- but you could subscribe with any provider for more. Ah, the dream.
- fhn 6mo ago
  You mean the USA had affordable broadband: "The Affordable Connectivity Program stopped accepting new consumer applications and enrollments on February 7, 2024....On January 11, 2024, due to a lack of additional funding from Congress" [1] I think SK did the right thing. Access to information is important even at 400kbps which is pretty darn fast considering some people grew up running 56kbps and never complained. 1. https://www.fcc.gov/affordable-connectivity-program https://www.fcc.gov/affordable-connectivity-program
  - hypercube33 6mo ago
    That was before websites were 40MB or more of garbage though so keep that in perspective. Also broadband here is supposedly 100mbps and giving more people access should drive cheaper Internet but also being America we have ISP monopoly by choice per city so I'm not sure any of the economics pans out.
    - joecool1029 6mo ago
      > That was before websites were 40MB or more of garbage though so keep that in perspective. Video is really where you feel sub-megabit connections limiting (youtube and social media). Sites not so much. But yes, it's a problem.
  - qingcharles 6mo ago
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
alt227 6mo ago
In most countries you can either sign up for contracts with regular data allowance, or buy pay-as-you go phones which require topups. It sounds like if you bought a pay-as-you-go sim card in Korea that it would immediately give you the slower unlimited connection without needing to pay for allowance first.
fhn 6mo ago
they gave you a slow lane on their network, whether you can get onto their network is your issue. Phones aren't particularly expensive, I bought mine used for $60 and I've found plenty of working smartphones literally on the curbs. Should they buy you a car and a house too?
p_stuart82 6mo ago
yeah 400 kbps is almost the easy part. you still need a line, a handset, and apps that still run on the cheapest phone around. hard to call that universal in practice.
techsystems 6mo ago
Yes it does, but you probably need a bit of context. They already have free Wi-Fi in every bus stop, train stations, government buildings, etc. like clocks, thermometers, air quality sensors, etc. The free Wi-Fi is very high quality, where you can watch 4K videos without stutters in most places (1080p for other places). This is more about basics instead of luxurious/entertainment purposes, where if they run out of data on their contracts, the companies must provide data, albeit slow, still, where government provided Wi-Fi can't reach. 400 kbps is good enough for AI text streams, so it's a policy blend for their recently trending slew of AI policies. I should also mention that it's a compromise from the telecom companies for recent incidents.
- ksec 6mo ago
  >The free Wi-Fi is very high quality, Haven't been to SK in recent years, but assuming quality as it is Fast, how does the log in system work? My main problem is not speed with modern public WiFi, especially in recent years enterprise WiFI 6 and coming WiFi 7 have gotten much better with signals and receptions. But simply just to use it. It is at least 3 - 5 steps to have it log in. And the login only works 95% of the time. Do we have something where a single click of a button and within 100ms we are in? Or even better without even doing anything? I have yet to seen one in real world.
  - muneeer 6mo ago
    Here in SK it’s actually pretty straightforward. Places like subways, buses/bus stops either use secured WPA/WPA2/WPA3 Wi-Fi with a shared password or open Wi-Fi where you just tap once to connect.

Leomuck 6mo ago

Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea? My assumption so far was that there are those who use the internet, they're usually fine, and those that don't - they won't benefit much. But no idea about South Korea. Anyway, cheaper and unlimited access is always a good idea!

calvinmorrison 6mo ago
There are many such schemes for low income households in the united states to subsidize internet access for students. There were some federal and other programs. Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.
- qingcharles 6mo ago
  The federal plans still exist, and the wires are already there in most homes, so most providers offer a tiny plan to fit the subsidy.
- grahamburger 6mo ago
  I work with a US non-profit that has provided both free and very low cost Internet access over the last 4 years (fixed home wifi, no phone). We have primarily used 4G/5G, including private networks built and owned by the non-profit, public/private partnerships with cities that own a 4G network, and now primarily very low cost wifi hotspots serviced by a major carrier.
edent 6mo ago
At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites. (I was part of the team working on that proposal.)
- 6mo ago

everdrive 6mo ago

Seems nice but is actually a terrible move. It's another step towards the presumption that everyone should have a smartphone.

kube-system 6mo ago
Communication access is a universal need and does not necessarily require smartphone usage. The US has had universal access programs since at least the mid 80s
HarHarVeryFunny 6mo ago
That's like saying that using tax dollars to pay for roads assumes that everyone has a car. MOST people do use things like government/taxpayer funded roads, public transportation, water, healthcare, etc that are considered as basic necessities. As far as everyone needing a smartphone, or e-mail address, that ship has already sailed. Here in the US, try using "Parkmobile" without a mobile phone.
- hoppyhoppy2 6mo ago
  Parkmobile lets you call their customer service number to pay for parking, so (assuming that process actually works) you would indeed need a mobile phone, but not a smartphone.
- everdrive 6mo ago
  > That's like saying that using tax dollars to pay for roads assumes that everyone has a car. Well once the government subsidizes roads they proliferate it and becomes more difficult to exist without a car. Your example supports my argument. >try using "Parkmobile" without a mobile phone. I would never, ever try using "parkmobile"
  - hoppyhoppy2 6mo ago
    My city's public parking lots, garages, and street parking use Parkmobile to collect payment, and AFAICT that kind of arrangement is not terribly unusual. I suppose anti-parkmobile drivers could stick to the few overpriced privately-owned lots in town, though. If you're saying that you don't drive, then congrats, and I hope to catch up to you soon.

Leftium 6mo ago

> unlimited downloads at just 400 kbps after their data allowances expire This is not new. Many Korean mobile plans actually offer even higher unlimited throttled speeds (up to 10 Mbps!) - You can filter plans by the unlimited throttled speed on this site. The plans are usually titled by `{data amount} + {throttled speed}`: https://www.moyoplan.com/plans https://www.moyoplan.com/plans - Even if not throttled, I think data overage charges were capped at about $13 (20K KRW) So perhaps unlimited 400 kbps will become standard: i.e. no plans will ever charge data overage fees? --- The linked statement didn't seem to specifically mention the 400 kbps thing at all.

anthk 6mo ago

I'd perfectly live with a forever free connection with about 16/32 KBPS. It can do lots of stuff in text mode. Not for video or big files, but enough to fill some pages. That would mean accesible web pages, and forget about JS based captchas and the like.

throwawayk7h 6mo ago
It'd be great if this moves developers to consider optimizing for lower-end connections.
Telaneo 6mo ago
One the one hand, yes. On the other hand, it's unreasonable to have to wait 5 minutes to download a 1 MB government PDF form. I guess they too can be optimised so they aren't all that bad, but they often aren't. What can't be optimised is having to upload an image of that form with a signature on it, or whatever else it may be.

OsrsNeedsf2P 6mo ago

[dead]

shevy-java 6mo ago

This is actually a really great idea. There should also be universal terminals that people can access on public places or so, even without having a smartphone ready. Now here in Germany we'll wait for decades for this to happen. For some reason Merz gave up on Germany.

WhyNotHugo 6mo ago
Libraries often have publicly usable terminals with Internet access. That's not the case in Germany?
- qwertfisch 6mo ago
  Not everywhere is a library. Today I visited the main city library of Bremen, and it has only media search terminals in kiosk mode. But there is of course free Wi-Fi, so if you have a smartphone, there should be no problem. There are also some libraries with open access 24/7 using a membership card. Cities have a lot of free wi-fi locations, but outside of urban areas you would need some kind of mobile or landline rate. The latter has relatively cheap flatrates (as little as 20€ including phone flatrate). Mobile access can be much cheaper, but then if your traffic volume is emptied you only get 64 kbit/s.

flowerthoughts 6mo ago

This would be huge for IoT. It'll obviously be abused to send "metrics" (a.k.a. private data to be sold) by companies, but still. I hope there's no limit on SIM cards.

iririririr 6mo ago

brazil and india had these since 2012. brazil was .25/24h of internet at top (4g) speeds then. which is like $7/mo max. until the gov elected with a steven banon campaign dropped the mandatory plan. the plan was a punishment for companies not maintaining payphones after getting the spectrum monopoly, which was a requirement on the auction.

Terr_ 6mo ago

To quote something from a favorite fiction-series, where someone is visiting a relatively backwards planet: > "Poor?" said Cordelia, bewildered. "No electricity? How can it be on the comm network?" > "It's not, of course," answered Vorkosigan. > "Then how can anybody get their schooling?" > "They don't." > Cordelia stared. "I don't understand. How do they get their jobs?" > "A few escape to the Service. The rest prey on each other, mostly." Vorkosigan regarded her face uneasily. "Have you no poverty on Beta Colony?" > "Poverty? Well, some people have more money than others, of course, but... no comconsoles?" > Vorkosigan was diverted from his interrogation. "Is not owning a comconsole the lowest standard of living you can imagine?" he said in wonder. > "It's the first article in the constitution. 'Access to information shall not be abridged.' " -- Shards of Honor (1986) by Lois McMaster Bujold

Terr_ 6mo ago
To turn to other, much older publications... The US Constitution was written ~230 year ago, when the state of the art was carrying letters by horse, and it explicitly authorized making a public service to provide it scale, which became the US Postal Service. If the same ideals and priorities had been applied against today's technology, we'd have the US Networking Service. Certainly not a deluxe ISP (even today USPS exists alongside other package companies and couriers) but an affordable baseline available to all residents.
- SecretDreams 6mo ago
  I completely agree with this sentiment. Good luck getting anything like that locked, sadly.
  - DaiPlusPlus 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - andrekandre 6mo ago
      there are many democrats who would block such a thing as well. historically there is always the one or two who (perhaps too conveniently?) block or water down legislation: joe lieberman against public option [0], two democrats block student debt relief [1], the dynamic duo of manchin and sinema blocking voting rights legislation and build back better [2] [3]... you don't need to blame republicans for democrats sabotaging themselves over and over. [0] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/12/joe-liebermans-medicare-dodge/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/12/joe-liebermans-... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-block-student-debt-cancellation-biden-relief-2023-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/which-democrats-voted-to-blo... [2] https://apnews.com/article/biden-voting-rights-bill-collapses-27c888b4f9bf876520913d7036a942b0 https://apnews.com/article/biden-voting-rights-bill-collapse... [3] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/manchin-says-he-no-biden-s-build-back-better-legislation-n1286281 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/manchin-says-he-no...

classified 6mo ago

Every country should do that.

emilfihlman 6mo ago

As a Finn this data allowance is pretty funny to me (though of course not unknown). Here most subscriptions are unlimited.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

cawksuwcka 6mo ago

[flagged]

hsbauauvhabzb 6mo ago

Part of me is all for this but I also get the knee jerk reaction of ‘if something is free, you’re the product’ What’s in this for the for profit companies? wouldn’t this cannibalize sales to the demographics that would be buying a cheap prepaid plan if it doesn’t already exist? Maybe i live less chronically online (but still on my phone) than most, but having spent a few weeks in Japan. I’ll assume prices are similar due to localities, similar-enough cultures and densities. My partner and I shared a 3gb SIM and wifi tethering because of the pricing and lack of need for on demand data (we download movies to our devices when on a high speed networks). I would be fine on 400kpbs while away from hotels and public wifi, and I imagine many tourists will be in the same boat, killing a lucrative segment of the market.

m463 6mo ago

[dead]

trendbuilder 6mo ago

[flagged]

linzhangrun 6mo ago

[flagged]

Mali- 6mo ago
This comment is every policy discussion. I like [X POLICY] but [Y POLICY] would be miles better. Although [Y POLICY] is much further reaching and has never been tried at anything like the scale of a country, it's sort of similar to [Z POLICY] - which was tried for 2 years.

rldjbpin 6mo ago

this does not come across that impressive beyond the surface. however, given the market inefficiencies (see Twitch saga over double charging of bandwidth [1]) despite having some of the fastest and (relatively) affordable internet has always made it an interesting case study. throttled speed beyond cap is something i've grown up seeing since the ADSL days, but mandating it across the handful of providers can perhaps help with the odd Line text or two. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38539167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38539167