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ChatGPT Pro now starts at $100/month
- selectively 6mo agoPrice drops are nice. Unfortunately, the quality differential versus the competitor is night and day. And everyone serious uses the API rate billing anyway.
- nilkn 6mo agoThis take is out-of-date by months (which is an eternity in this space). Codex today has caught up and is very much on par with CC.
- hyperionultra 6mo agoDisagree. I use codex extensively. It just works so well with vscode and python. Claude with ridiculous limits - thanks no. For some even xAI is good fit.
- randomNumber7 6mo ago> For some even xAI is good fit. Grok makes sense if you want s.th. less censored that is not biased towards woke ideology. I don't see how this matters for coding though. I only use it to give me a summary of recent news (so I don't have to actually read the bs newspapers and X posts myself).
- satvikpendem 6mo agoI prefer and use 5.4 over Opus, it's simply better, faster, and doesn't glaze me like Claude models want to do for some reason.
- aerhardt 6mo ago> the quality differential versus the competitor is night and day. This myth about the inferiority of ChatGPT and Codex is becoming a meme. I have active subscriptions to both. I am throwing at Codex all kinds of data engineering, web development and machine learning problems, have been working on non-tech tasks in the "Karpathy Obsidian Wiki" [1] style before he posted about it. Not only does Codex crush Claude on cost, it's also significantly better at adherence and overall quality. Claude is there on my Mac, gathering dust, to the point I am thinking of not renewing the sub. There are plenty of fellow HNers here who feel the same from what I read in the flamewars. I suspect none of us really has a horse in this race and many are half-competent (in other threads, they mention they do things like embedded programming, distributed DL systems, etc.) I'm starting to suspect a vast majority of people pushing the narrative that Claude is vastly better haven't even tried the 5.3 / 5.4 models and are doing it out of sheer tribalism. [1] https://gist.github.com/karpathy/442a6bf555914893e9891c11519de94f https://gist.github.com/karpathy/442a6bf555914893e9891c11519...
- selectively 6mo agoI have access to effectively infinite API tokens for all models from Anthropic as well as OpenAI. The differential in performance in complex tasks is vast and strongly in favor of Opus, in my experience. I do not use the official harnesses for either model, though - as they are not my taste. Codex is closer to my taste, as it is at least a native app and not typescript slop. But the model is just not up to snuff.
- benjiro3000 6mo ago[dead]
- xur17 6mo agoAny idea way "5x or 20x more usage" means?
- reed1234 6mo agoIf you pay 200 you get 20x
- recursive 6mo agoThe price is $100 according to this post. Where is there an option for $200?
- AstroBen 6mo agoseems like this $100 replaced the $200 plan So.. cheaper?
- readitalready 6mo agoNo, the same $200 plan is still there. They hid it behind the $100 click-through. This just adds a $100 plan that's 1/4 the usage of the $200 plan..
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- orphea 6mo agoYou choose on checkout. There it says Plan details 5x more usage than Plus 20x more usage than Plus $120/month $200/month
- recursive 6mo agoSo curious that the cost in the comparison is just a flat $100, not "$100 or $200" and yet the usage has the "or". Surely just a lapse in copy editing.
- Archerlm 6mo agojust a rumor, but i heard altman was adding a timer which required the R&D dept. to triple
- throwatdem12311 6mo agoI heard it’ll take about a year. Timers are a hard problem to solve.
- sassymuffinz 6mo agoWhile they work on getting it to tell the time they'll just be over there listing targets for military strikes.
- gmig 6mo agoThis is an additional offering to the existing plan. 5x=$100 20x=$200
- 2001zhaozhao 6mo agoThe title is misleading. The only thing they seem to have done was add a $100 plan identical to Claude's, which gives 5x usage of ChatGPT Plus. There is still a $200 plan that gives 20x usage.
- jstummbillig 6mo agoThat is not the "only" thing: You get access to GPT-5.4 pro.
- giwook 6mo agoJust to clarify, one does not get access to the pro model on the Pro plan?
- carbocation 6mo agoThe $20 Plus plan still exists, and does not give access to the pro model. The $200 Pro plan still exists, and does give access to the pro model. What is new is a $100 Pro plan that does give access to the pro model, with lower usage limits than the $200 Pro plan.
- irishcoffee 6mo agoSo, reading the tea leaves, they're either losing subscribers for the $200 plan, or they're not following the same hockey stick path of growth they thought they were... maybe? Edit: I wonder if this is actually compute-bound as the impetus
- alyxya 6mo agoPlenty of people wanted to spend more than $20 but less than $200 for a plan. It's long overdue IMO.
- tedsanders 6mo agoNope, it's just that a lot of people (especially those using Codex) asked us for a medium-sized $100 plan. $20 felt too restrictive and $200 felt like a big jump. Pricing strategy is always a bit of an art, without a perfect optimum for everyone: - pay-per-token makes every query feel stressful - a single plan overcharges light users and annoyingly blocks heavy users - a zillion plans are confusing / annoying to navigate and change This change mostly just adds a medium-sized plan for people doing medium-sized amounts of work. People were asking for this, and we're happy to deliver. (I work at OpenAI.)
- satvikpendem 6mo agoThe era of subsidization is over, it seems. For my money, on the code side at least, GitHub Copilot on VSCode is still the most cost effective option, 10 bucks for 300 requests gets me all I need, especially when I use OpenAI models which are counted as 1x vs Opus which is 3x. I've stopped using all other tools like Claude Code etc.
- giwook 6mo agoI use both GH Copilot as well as CC extensively and it does seem more economical, though I wonder how long this will last as I imagine Github has also been subsidizing LLM usage extensively. FWIW it feels like GH Copilot is a cheaper version of OpenRouter but with trade-offs like being locked into VSCode and the Microsoft ecosystem overall. I already use VSCode though and otherwise I don't see much downside to using GH Copilot outside of that.
- satvikpendem 6mo agoI'm hopeful because Microsoft already has a partnership and owns much of OpenAI so can get their models at cost to host on Azure with they already do, so they can pass on the savings to the user. This is why Opus is 3x as expensive in Copilot, because Microsoft needs to buy API usage from Anthropic directly.
- treesknees 6mo agoI don’t think it’s API costs. Their Sonnet 4.6 is just 1x premium request which matches the 1x cost of the various GPT Codex models.
- satvikpendem 6mo agoSonnet is the worse model though, therefore it's expected that it is cheaper, the comparison would be Opus and GPT. That Anthropic's worse model is the same request cost as the best OpenAI model is what I mean when talking about Microsoft flexing their partnership.
- rossant 6mo agoHow much was it before?
- coreyburnsdev 6mo ago$20 or $200 plan, now we have a middle plan.
- varispeed 6mo agoWhat is the difference between Pro and normal mode apart from the fact the Pro takes ages to finish? I see not much difference in output quality.
- MallocVoidstar 6mo agohttps://x.com/OpenAI/status/2042296046009626989 https://x.com/OpenAI/status/2042296046009626989 >Our existing $200 Pro tier still remains our highest usage option.
- flextheruler 6mo agoTell me you're losing market share to competitors without telling me you're losing market share to competitors
- patates 6mo ago5.4, in my own testing, was almost always ahead of Opus 4.6 for reviews and planning. I'm on plus plan on openai, so I couldn't test it so deeply. Anyone who had more experience on both could perhaps chime in? Pros/cons compared to Opus? I'm invested in Claude ecosystem but the recent quality and session limits decrease have me on the edge.
- srslyTrying2hlp 6mo ago[dead]
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- giwook 6mo agoDo you mind elaborating on your experience here? Just curious as I've often heard that Claude was superior for planning/architecture work while ChatGPT was superior for actual implementation and finding bugs.
- patates 6mo agoClaude makes more detailed plans that seem better if you just skim them, but when analyzed, has a lot of errors, usually. It compensates for most during implementation if you make it use TDD by using superpower et al, or just telling it to do so. GPT 5.4 makes more simple plans (compared to superpowers - a plugin from the official claude plugin marketplace - not the plan mode), but can better fill the details while implementing. Plan mode in Claude Code got much better in the last months, but the lacking details cannot be compensated by the model during the implementation. So my workflow has been: Make claude plan with superpowers:brainstorm, review the spec, make updates, give the spec to gpt, usually to witness grave errors found by gpt, spec gets updates, another manual review, (many iterations later), final spec is written, write the plan, gpt finds mind boggling errors, (many iterations later), claude agent swarm implements, gpt finds even more errors, I find errors, fix fix fix, manual code review and red tests from me, tests get fixed (many iterations later) finally something usable with stylistic issues at most (human opinion)! This happens with the most complex features that'd be a nightmare to implement even for the most experienced programmers of course. For basic things, most SOTA modals can one-shot anyway.
- pseudosavant 6mo agoThat has me quite tempted. In general, I stay under the Plus limits, but I do watch my consumption. I could use `/fast` mode all of the time, with extra high reasoning, and use gpt-5.4-pro for especially complex tasks. It wasn't worth 10x the price to me before, but 5x is approachable.
- jstummbillig 6mo agoI think you currently can't use pro inside codex, or can you?
- pseudosavant 6mo agoGood question. I'd hope/expect that you could, but that doesn't mean much.
- simianwords 6mo agono you can't use pro in the harness.
- pseudosavant 6mo agoThat is disappointing. I find myself mostly using Codex these days. ChatGPT still for one off questions/prompts, but usually complex problems require context, like files and tools I already have on my system, and Codex is way better for that.
- simianwords 6mo agoI think pro is really subsidised and they don't want to encourage it in the harness.
- codybontecou 6mo agoThat's an odd choice. I wonder why.
- azuanrb 6mo ago[dead]
- righthand 6mo agoThis is like the 2010s hosting price wars.
- antirez 6mo agoVery good move. In my experience, for system programming at least, GPT 5.4 xhigh is vastly superior to Claude Opus 4.6 max effort. I ran many brutal tests, including reconstructing for QEMU the SCSI controller (not longer accessible) of a SVSY UNIX of the early 90s used in a 386. Side by side, always re-mirroring the source trees each time one did a breakthrough in the implementation. Well, GPT 5.4 single handed did it all, while Opus continued to take wrong paths. The same for my Redis bug tracking and development. But 200$ is too much for many people (right now, at least: the reality is that if frontier LLMs are not democratized, we will end paying like a house rent to a few providers), and also while GPT 5.4 is much stronger, it is slower and less sharp when the thing to do is simple, so many people went for Claude (also because of better marketing and ethical concerns, even if my POV is different on that side: both companies sell LLM models with similar capabilities and similar internal IP protection and so forth, to me they look very similar in practical terms). This will surely change things, and many people will end with a Claude 5x account + a Codex 5x account I bet.
- Tiberium 6mo agoThanks for confirming my impressions, it's been like 4 months now that I've arrived at the same conclusions. GPT models are just better at any kind of low-level work: reverse engineering including understanding what the decompiled code/assembly does, renaming that decompiled code (functions/types), any kind of C/C++, way more reliable security research (Opus will find way more, but most will turn out to be false positives). I've had GPT create non-trivial custom decompilers for me for binaries built with specific compilers (it's a much simpler task than what IDA Pro/Ghidra are doing but still complex), and modify existing Java decompilers. Regarding speed, I don't use xhigh that often, and surprisingly for me GPT 5.4 high is faster than Claude 4.6 Opus high (unless you enable fast mode for Opus). Of course I still use Opus for frontend, for some small scripts, and for criticizing GPT's code style, especially in Python (getattr).
- antirez 6mo agoIn the SCSI controller work I mentioned, a very big part of the work was indeed reasoning about assembly code and how IRQs and completion of DMAs worked and so forth. Opus, even if TOOLS.md had the disassembler and it was asked to use it many times, didn't even bothered much. GPT 5.4 did instead a very great reverse engineering work, also it was a lot more sensible to my high level suggestions, like: work in that way to make more isolated progresses and so forth.
- laacz 6mo agoThey are actively exploiting the compute shortages of Anthropic. In our team we're pushing for more or less vanilla and portability, since the best harness today might not be the best one in 6 months.
- hackable_sand 6mo agoCan you guys remind me again why you're doing this?
- I_am_tiberius 6mo agoFor me it's not the price. It's the fact that they obviously read my prompts and may even use a derived version of my data for training. As it's very clear in the meantime that SAMA lies most of the time, there's just no way I can trust this company in any way.
- disiplus 6mo agoIt looks like its called prolite. https://snipboard.io/jmGKfM.jpg https://snipboard.io/jmGKfM.jpg
- koolba 6mo agoDoes this give you something different than the $20/mo plan when using codex?
- Tiberium 6mo agoYes, it's 5x more usage than Plus, and with the current promotions you actually get 10x more usage than Plus on the $100 plan until May 31st. Same for the $200 plan, it's still 2x its normal usage until that date.
- bossyTeacher 6mo agoIt really feels like LLMs will mostly become tools for tech workers rather than the kind of civilization-level transformation sama has been peddling. Every single comment here seems to confirm the above.
- wolttam 6mo agoThis is kind of the goldilocks zone for LLMs right now. I wouldn't mistake this for any kind of capability plateau. There is a massive push towards making transformers the engine of humanoid (and other kinds of) robotics, we just haven't reached the hype moment for those yet.
- bossyTeacher 6mo ago> I wouldn't mistake this for any kind of capability plateau. There is a massive push towards making transformers the engine of humanoid (and other kinds of) robotics, we just haven't reached the hype moment for those yet. Problem is that the fuel to get this train going relies on investors money. Investors aren't going to be happy with the quote I took from your message. And that's the real bet really, can the industry turn the spark into fire before the investor money runs out?
- wolttam 6mo agoDevelopment towards those goals will continue with or without massive investor capital, see Google’s involvement with Boston Dynamics. And plenty of very wealthy folks see the writing on the wall wrt robotics.
- swdf 6mo ago"Development towards those goals will continue with or without massive investor capital, see Google’s involvement with Boston Dynamics" Lol google holds and invests its shareholders cash on their behalf. Using that money comes with a cost - they demand a rate of return. Swear most of you need to take a corporate finance 101 class.
- jedisct1 6mo agoAwesome news. And that includes usage of the API with any agent without risking being banned. OpenAI is also very supportive of open source software. I'm using GPT-5.4 with Swival (https://swival.dev https://swival.dev) for a while, alongside local models, and it's absolutely fantastic.
- mrdependable 6mo agoIt's interesting seeing all the ChatGPT users in this thread, knowing what we know about OpenAI. Either they don't care about what OpenAI does, don't know their reputation, or feel like their use is too insignificant to matter.
- MattGaiser 6mo agoWhat has the tech industry ever resisted on moral or reputational grounds?
- sonofhans 6mo agoThis is sarcastically-stated but an excellent point, and an honest answer will come up with a vanishingly small list. We geeks may think we care about Important Things, but our industry cares for nothing but money and power — morality is a hindrance to the accumulation of those.
- pdntspa 6mo agoWorse, they exploit our curiosity and open-mindedness to build their empires for them. Which we willingly do because cool shiny shit. Nerd-sniping as a weapon of oppression
- MattGaiser 6mo agoA lot of it is simply that they are far more open to the idea of curiousity as having value than most people.
- rcbdev 6mo ago> cool shiny shit You mean absurdly high compensation for very comfortable, low-stress office work? People work to feed their families, not just because working is 'cool'.
- Throaway199999 6mo agollm made this post?
- sourcecodeplz 6mo agoI like that they kept limited access to Codex even on free tier. LE: Someone said this is how the tiers are now counted: "Essentially if old plus is 1x then new limits are: Plus - 0.3x Pro $100 - 1.5x Pro $200 - 6x (unchanged)"
- bottlepalm 6mo agoAre you allowed to run your own autonomous agents with it outside of Codex, like OpenClaw and others?
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- christkv 6mo agoI wish these plans had burst mode where I could set default plan size and max plan size and just scale up for a month automatically if needed but automatically drop back to my default plan at the next billing cycle
- yoniknak 6mo agoI was going to say they have that, but it looks like they only have that for teams, not individuals: https://openai.com/index/codex-flexible-pricing-for-teams/ https://openai.com/index/codex-flexible-pricing-for-teams/
- d3rockk 6mo agoNow they just need every iPhone owner on the planet to subscribe, and this AI bubble will officially be unpoppable!
- yoniknak 6mo agoI’ve used both a fair amount, and for actual coding work I still prefer Codex over Opus.
- daft_pink 6mo agoIt says 5x or 20x more usage, so does that mean they have copied clause and have a 5x for 100 and 20x for 200?
- gizmodo59 6mo agoGpt 5.4 high with fast mode in codex app is hands down the best way to do anything coding or non coding. If you have not tried it you are missing out. 100$ well spent. Claude code is too hyped up on HN.
- jerrygoyal 6mo agoAstroturfing here is beyond control
- Brosper 6mo agoIt's the end of cheap AI. (It's my opinion.) It helps them cut the subsidization of tokens. Then they will release Pro x2, which could be the same as the old $200 but with fewer tokens.
- AbstractH24 6mo agoI deleted my ChatGPT account after alll that stuff with the pentagon. Have I missed anything?