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John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement
- verdverm 7mo agoThe second paragraph likely answers some of your immediate questions > The settlement also includes an agreement by Deere to provide “the digital tools required for the maintenance, diagnosis, and repair” of tractors, combines, and other machinery for 10 years. That part is crucial, as farmers previously resorted to hacking their own equipment’s software just to get it up and running again. John Deere signed a memorandum of understanding in 2023 that partially addressed those concerns, providing third parties with the technology to diagnose and repair, as long as its intellectual property was safeguarded. Monday’s settlement seems to represent a much stronger (and legally binding) step forward.
- westmeal 7mo agoYeah but it's only for 10 years...
- verdverm 7mo agoit's not, they have to provide the knowhow to 3rd parties so they can carry on indefinitely
- BobbyTables2 7mo ago10 years for the buyer or the manufacturer? So it’s back to as before in 10 years?
- verdverm 7mo agoThe second to last sentence I copied over talks about after 10yrs, basically saying they have to provide the knowhow to 3rd party tool makers and repair technicians, and that this settlement makes that more certain. (as I read it)
- darth_avocado 7mo agoThe stock is up 5% today. What’s the catch?
- aucisson_masque 7mo agoThe market expected a worst outcome ?
- maest 7mo agoNo, all US equities are up after the Iran ceasefire news. You need to look at Deere stock after taking out the beta to the market.
- explodes 7mo agoIANAL but my understanding with settlements is that It removes the possibility of the defendant risking a judgement of wrongdoing and causing more problems down the road, like having to fix their mistakes.
- bluGill 7mo agoThe market doesn't care. It is a big deal to some people here, but to the vast majority it doesn't change a thing (or doesn't seem to) and so the markets don't care.
- tartoran 7mo ago> What’s the catch? 99m is a drop in the bucket. They were probably expecting more.
- jabwd 7mo agoThey settled, and paid pennies for being able to continue the status quo. Given that the headline is journalistic malpractice at best; and you asking this question kinda proves that. > While the agricultural manufacturing giant pointed out in a statement that this is no admission of wrongdoing Welp, gotta sue again in the future, hopefully lobbied laws in place to prevent whatever forced them to settle by then!
- chasil 7mo agoThe complete crack of Deere's firmware in 2022 must have had some impact on this. https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/16/john_deere_doom/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/16/john_deere_doom/ Edit: 'Sick Codes confirmed that he believes John Deere failed to comply with its GPL obligations. "I'd love for them to come forward and explain how they are in compliance," he said.'
- bri3d 7mo agoI wouldn’t really call that a “complete crack” (although it IS cool). There’s an _awful_ lot more firmware in a car or tractor than the display unit, and arguably it’s one of the less important modules in most architectures. Cracked versions of Deere Service Advisor are much more meaningful to the kinds of repairs farmers perform than firmware exploits are.
- SilverElfin 7mo agoSeems like a small price for a big company. Shouldn’t there be some higher punitive fine for even trying this tactic? It’s basically zero cost for companies to be abusive.
- adityamwagh 7mo agoYes there should be. But there won’t be until US stops lobbying and American public elects lawmakers that work for people instead of their own pockets.
- nalekberov 7mo agoUnfortunately most people has a price in this world. Those who can’t be bought are just so rare.
- user3939382 7mo agoThe disgusting part is it’s not even that much money. $20k here, $50k there gets you a lot of political leverage.
- mayama 7mo agoAnd people that are likely to not be bought wouldn't enter politics in most cases. To enter and succeed in politics needs ambition and skillset that is diametrically opposite to a honest person.
- mistrial9 7mo agono the settlements include many other conditions, but I agree the financial penalties should be larger
- causality0 7mo agoOne of the most user-hostile companies on earth. My John Deere lawnmower came with a fuel gauge that runs off a CR2032 that's embedded in epoxy. The battery runs out of charge in about six months and the gauge stops working. If you saw the gauge open and replace the battery it doesn't start working again. If you disconnect the gauge the lawnmower won't start. Replacement gauges are $60.
- elAhmo 7mo ago[flagged]
- snowe2010 7mo agoDon’t comment if you don’t want to actually contribute. How are people supposed to know these things before buying the equipment. What if they’re the only provider in their region? There’s a billion reasons why your comment doesn’t contribute.
- linuxftw 7mo agoJohn Deere has had a terrible reputation for over a decade now. They've always used proprietary parts for the tractors. Do 5 minutes of research.
- laughing_man 7mo ago"Don't buy their stuff" is exactly the right answer. You need to do your research before you buy big ticket items. It may not be true in every sector, but Deere has plenty of competition.
- enaaem 7mo agoHow can you do research without victims complaining?
- laughing_man 7mo ago
- shevy-java 7mo agoGood! Wonder if Louis Rossmann already mentioned that.
- bearjaws 7mo agoNeeds another zero, likely made 9 figures in revenue from this scheme.
- mothballed 7mo agoI bought a ~completely mechanical tractor without ECU right under the 25hp cutoff that requires computer and emissions controls to get around this bullshit. The adding of DPF and/or SCR to agricultural diesels gave vendors cover to fuck the customer using the excuse of preventing emissions tampering.
- skeptrune 7mo agothis is awesome. beyond happy to see it
- pnw 7mo agoUp to one third of that $99m goes to attorneys. Named plaintiffs get $25k each and class members get what's left over, which could be anything from $50 to $5k according to ChatGPT. I wonder if they'll throw in free credit monitoring with that?
- Robdel12 7mo agoWoah, childs play money for the amount of pain, lock in, and money they’ve cost farmers.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- datahack 7mo agoThis is woefully inadequate as a remedy. The dollar amount is minuscule and the remedy time limited. Seems like they just got a license to continue business as usual.
- amelius 7mo agoIsn't there some kind of three-strikes approach which judges can use against repeat offenders?
- evilkorn 7mo agoThey reserve that approach for drug laws that fill prisons.
- genxy 7mo ago10 years is just about when things start needing a whole lot of attention. Frankly no one should buy something like this unless a whole shelf of repair manuals is available, along with spare parts.
- itbeho 7mo agoI live in a wine region in central Calif where everyone has a tractor. We bought a Kubota, enjoy using it and get a lot of work done with it. We have a neighbor that bought a new John Deere and for about a 3 month period we endured nothing but abuse from him because we didn't buy "American". Then his problems started...
- lifty 7mo agoDid he empathize with you after or he remained bitter?
- brikym 7mo agoI'm guessing once he understood his tractor is a lemon he asked his neighbor for a taste of his sweet orange one.
- dansmith1919 7mo agoIf you make a very rough estimate of the emotional maturity of a person that abuses a neighbor for not “buying American”, I think the answer become reasonably clear
- koolba 7mo agoDepends on which specific model as about half of them are made in the USA: https://www.kubota-kma.com/about/ https://www.kubota-kma.com/about/
- silexia 7mo agoFarmer here. We only run equipment made before 2000 and all of our tractors are from the 1980s. We badly need right to repair.
- shiroiuma 7mo agoYou should check out Kubota stuff.
- 9rx 7mo agoI considered one for my last tractor purchase. The depreciation on them is hard to square. Units are selling or 1/3 of the original price with only a few hundred hours on them.
- mschild 7mo agoWhy not purchase used then? 66% discount for a mint condition sounds like a steal.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- 9rx 7mo agoThat is what brought some interest, but at the same time there are no steals in farming. Although in the end it was largely technical. The M7 wasn't enough frame for my needs, but I didn't really need the HP of the M8 (which is actually a Versatile anyway). Other manufacturers offer models that more closely align with my requirements.
- shiroiuma 7mo agoWhy not pick up one of these barely-used units for cheap then?
- 9rx 7mo agoI'm not sure I'd call them cheap. They're in the same price range as all the other brands with used machines of similar spec, plus some premium for being barely used. I am not sure there is any real price advantage. Agricultural markets are pretty efficient. That might on the surface sound contradictory with high depreciation as that means someone has to pay for an expensive new machine. But they are not really at odds with each other when you think about it.
- written-beyond 7mo agoWhenever I read John Deere my brain somehow adds Louis Rossman in there too.
- fiftyacorn 7mo agoLet me check who the second largest shareholder is - ah its bill gates
- Dead_Lemon 7mo agoIt surprised me that farmers aren't just ditching John Deere for alternatives that respect them. Visiting family on their farm in the early 2000's, they had been selling off their John Deere tractors and replacing them with Massey Ferguson, because they were annoyed with the poor servicing and parts delivery they had with their local shop/dealership. Way before this right to repair stuff happened.
- halapro 7mo agoI think a lot of them just are not aware of the issues until they dropped hundreds of thousands of dollars and used the tractors for years
- Barbing 7mo agoCould that be true over the past decade that we've seen this in the headlines? Wouldn't there be plenty of bellyaching at the feed store? Maybe they're really reliable and people are just finding out now...
- raxxorraxor 7mo agoI don't think other modern tractors behave differently to be honest. Deere probably cost a premium in comparison, but I think many farmers lease their work devices today anyway. But yes, if they would own it, a right to repair would be very welcomed... If you see a modern tractor on the streets next to a Ferrari, the tractor is probably the more luxurious and expensive vehicle.
- jareklupinski 7mo agoyea, the tractor is a lambo https://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/en-eu/ https://www.lamborghini-tractors.com/en-eu/
- anenefan 7mo agoI think a lot of people get the impression of DIY repair - but most tractors can be serviced entirely or if not most repairs via a third party mechanic / appropriate workshop. I have surfed (I used to research stuff for various people) many tractor forums over the years but don't really recall too many details, but ever after a number of years, one of the things that stuck in my mind was one USoA farmer's account of the over the top gouging practices that JD was running with. Basically the newish JD was serviced by a third party mechanic, new parts installed correctly and verified ... but it would not run until they paid $$$$ for a JD tech to drive out to their location, plug in their simple special tool to unlock the system so the tractor could start and get to work.
- thelastgallon 7mo ago> providing third parties with the technology to diagnose and repair This means only John Deere's authorized contractors, which is going to be pretty costly.
- vkr2020 7mo agoJust buy a Mahindra tractor and get done with it! Quality might be iffy but you can repair it to your heart's content
- gettingoverit 6mo agoSo basically they got fined a cost of single tractor repair, and it didn't even create a legal precedent due to settlement? Someone believed that "will make available" has any consequences, given decades-long tradition to just ignore such agreements? Well, great.