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Much like carpentry, or electrical work, or concrete, or just about any of the trades. Any labor throughout human history.
by esseph 7mo ago
Much like carpentry, or electrical work, or concrete, or just about any of the trades.
Any labor throughout human history.
- knollimar 7mo agoIf ypu do those for 15 years you are likely in management
- emptyfile 7mo agoMaybe in hacker news reality, not in the real world.
- esseph 7mo agoCorrect. Dozens or hundreds of workers for every manager or foreman. There's also a lot of owner/operator one-man shops.
- knollimar 7mo agoConsider the turnover rate as an geometric series. Also 1 foreman in the electrical field runs effectively 50 guys max if good, and smaller sites might be 10 men to a foreman. I currently have 3 foreman running 5 to 6 guys each at my current company (2 close sites of 3)
- esseph 7mo ago50:1 10:1 Big range, but still a lot of workers for every foreman. (Father in law did 35yr in carpentry and teaching job corps)
- knollimar 7mo agoIt's really not the ratio but the turnover. Guys who aren't making it up into leadership self select after 5 years or so. The ratios seem unbelievable to those in tech, but I'm just saying you're unlikely to make it to 10 years without having at least the opportunity for some leadership.
- esseph 7mo ago> make it to 10 years without having at least the opportunity for some leadership. Maybe if that person is young and hasn't done real work. The best ICs are often horrible managers, it's a different career. Same applies idea here. Or just don't want to put up with the bullshit, the fights, the showing up drunk to work, or missing tools, etc.
- knollimar 7mo agoI do electrical work and have looked at data for my last 3 companies. 10 years in you should be a foreman or something is wrong.
- knollimar 7mo agoSome guys choose to do joruneyman work, but they typically have the option if they're not mute or something. It's a choice ij my experience (They like OT or working alone or hate travel)
- RugnirViking 7mo agohow many managers would have to exist per worker? especially given the demographics these days, with fewer and fewer children being born.
- throwaway27448 7mo ago> Any labor throughout human history. Sure, but sedentary labor destroys the body through neglect—which is ultimately a choice.
- esseph 7mo ago> Sure, but sedentary labor destroys the body through neglect—which is ultimately a choice Huh? It's not clear to me what you're trying to say here.
- throwaway27448 7mo agoMeaning, you can somewhat opt out of the damage sedentary labor does to the body by exercising and using your body. It is much more difficult to avoid manual labor from damaging the body.
- esseph 7mo agoSure, which is why many white collar workers look down on tradesmen (in the US at least), and tradesmen look down on white collar workers as "bullshit email jobs".
- satvikpendem 7mo agoExercise is optional, labor in a manual labor job is mandatory