3 ms·

>But music? There's basically an inexhaustible supply of human-created tracks that can be accessed for next to nothing. Isn’t this an argument against all new

by Gagarin1917 7mo ago

>But music? There's basically an inexhaustible supply of human-created tracks that can be accessed for next to nothing. Isn’t this an argument against all new music, even human made? Either we have it all already, or there’s room for new things that we haven’t heard before.

echelon 7mo ago
[flagged]
- kranner 7mo ago
  > As far as I'm concerned we're content scarce and I don't care what makes the music - humans, robots, netherworld demons - I just want good music. Presumably you've already listened to every piece of music ever recorded? Otherwise it seems it would be more efficient to do that first than wait for AI to generate it and you chancing upon it.
  - echelon 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - gizajob 7mo ago
      You’re not a machine. I’m also tired of hearing that ontological take spouted by AI enthusiasts.
      - mckn1ght 7mo ago
        I think humans are machines, they are just vastly more advanced than any machine invented by humans. This is something I thought long before the current AI hype cycle. What do you think are some important differences between machines and humans?
        polyamid23 7mo ago
        Is there a difference in how you treat machines vs how you treat humans?
        mckn1ght 7mo ago
        At an abstract enough level, not really. I treat them with care and try to give them whatever they need to do their thing. I want them to last as long as possible. But in asking this question you must have some differences in mind. Could you speak to some of those?
        gizajob 7mo ago
        Humans are organic, biological, evolved animal beings. Machines are tools we make and use.
      - donkeybeer 7mo ago
        If you're not religious, I would like to hear why or how we are not machines.
        tananan 7mo ago
        How are we machines?
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        What is the non machine part? What do you believe exists other than chemical and electrical systems? Edit: If you mean machine in a more colloquial sense that's fine. Let us first get clear if we mean machine in that sense or in sense of any physical mechanism.
        tananan 7mo ago
        If the question is what is there about us that's not covered by the body, we can mention things like: feelings, intentions, perceptions, acts of consciousness. Or however else you want to divide up things that have to do with the mind. Eliminativists/illusionists may completely deny such things. The rest can fall into many camps, some of them religious. It's not like there are any surprising new parts. It's about how one chooses to interpret/conceive those we are familiar with.
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        And what part remains in that space after we have mapped all the brain signals and configurations corresponding to these feelings, intentions and perceptions? I don't feel the need to bring up absurd unproven concepts without waiting for more data. It'd be like me saying there is something aphysical behind Mercury's orbital perturbations if I were born before SR and GR were discovered (as an example). No point in jumping to such an argument without first exhausting more believable causes first. History is very strongly against any kind of bet in the aphysical. My question to you would be, what do you think remains that's not a simple natural system if/after something like Neuralink is successfully established?
    - card_zero 7mo ago
      Oh that's what you're banging on about. You think AI is like a demon, or you think LLMs are people too, something like that, hence "I don't care what makes the music". That would otherwise be a spooky and implausible phrase that says something strange about what gives music quality, as if quality in music is something ethereal and mathematical and objective and detached from the human condition, and detached from artists. But if you think the AI counts as a person too then it seems less cold and abstract.
      - therealpygon 7mo ago
        Are you really suggesting quality in music isn’t largely mathematical?
        card_zero 7mo ago
        (Belatedly) yes. Kind of a big argument to grapple with, but let's start by considering everything. I mean, all the stuff, the abstract stuff, that's out there objectively in the universe and in the future, waiting to be discovered. I believe there's quite a considerable amount of it. It's all potentially of interest to us eventually, and only a teeny tiny part of it is comprehensible to us now. That part is at the leading edge, the cutting edge of our enquiries, and in order for us to see and comprehend and even care about that part, it has to relate to us. It has to be oriented to us and our thoughts and things we can use. You see what I'm getting at? Humans don't really like abstract things. Mathematicians seem to, but I doubt that even mathematics truly has an objective abstract quality that's distant from human concerns. I reckon humans do human mathematics, and it probably has fashions, too, it's probably modern and current, that is, of its time and place. So you could accept that, but still claim that music relates strongly to mathematics as we know it. Of course there's such a thing as the mathematics of music. I could dispute the value of that to the quality of the music, as being too abstract and niche compared to the evocative qualities of music, where it evokes things in our physical world: the sounds of hitting things with sticks, heartbeats, tones of voice, meaningful instruments such as bugles evoking battles, mazy noodling around evoking contemplative thoughts (is that abstract?) ... but either way, the point is that we live in a sort of parochial Bag End, if Middle Earth represents everything abstractly possible, and so we only understand hobbit things and only appreciate hobbit art. So to speak.
    - bakugo 7mo ago
      If you're just a machine, can I unplug you?
      - hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
        The same way you can unplug a laptop, I guess?
  - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
    All good finds are chanced upon. Just now sometimes it's made by AI.
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
- obirunda 7mo ago
  This is what we call in the business a "fever dream"
  - echelon 7mo ago
    Or the uno reverse - that's what the anti-AI crowd is experiencing in their inability to adjust to the coming reality. You're just going to have to make peace. I don't know how y'all can cope with being angry at progress all the time. It's not going to stop for you. It's also really awesome that we live to see this come to pass. We're living in a good dream.

echelon 7mo ago

[flagged]

kranner 7mo ago
> As far as I'm concerned we're content scarce and I don't care what makes the music - humans, robots, netherworld demons - I just want good music. Presumably you've already listened to every piece of music ever recorded? Otherwise it seems it would be more efficient to do that first than wait for AI to generate it and you chancing upon it.
- echelon 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - gizajob 7mo ago
    You’re not a machine. I’m also tired of hearing that ontological take spouted by AI enthusiasts.
    - mckn1ght 7mo ago
      I think humans are machines, they are just vastly more advanced than any machine invented by humans. This is something I thought long before the current AI hype cycle. What do you think are some important differences between machines and humans?
      - polyamid23 7mo ago
        Is there a difference in how you treat machines vs how you treat humans?
        mckn1ght 7mo ago
        At an abstract enough level, not really. I treat them with care and try to give them whatever they need to do their thing. I want them to last as long as possible. But in asking this question you must have some differences in mind. Could you speak to some of those?
      - gizajob 7mo ago
        Humans are organic, biological, evolved animal beings. Machines are tools we make and use.
    - donkeybeer 7mo ago
      If you're not religious, I would like to hear why or how we are not machines.
      - tananan 7mo ago
        How are we machines?
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        What is the non machine part? What do you believe exists other than chemical and electrical systems? Edit: If you mean machine in a more colloquial sense that's fine. Let us first get clear if we mean machine in that sense or in sense of any physical mechanism.
        tananan 7mo ago
        If the question is what is there about us that's not covered by the body, we can mention things like: feelings, intentions, perceptions, acts of consciousness. Or however else you want to divide up things that have to do with the mind. Eliminativists/illusionists may completely deny such things. The rest can fall into many camps, some of them religious. It's not like there are any surprising new parts. It's about how one chooses to interpret/conceive those we are familiar with.
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        And what part remains in that space after we have mapped all the brain signals and configurations corresponding to these feelings, intentions and perceptions? I don't feel the need to bring up absurd unproven concepts without waiting for more data. It'd be like me saying there is something aphysical behind Mercury's orbital perturbations if I were born before SR and GR were discovered (as an example). No point in jumping to such an argument without first exhausting more believable causes first. History is very strongly against any kind of bet in the aphysical. My question to you would be, what do you think remains that's not a simple natural system if/after something like Neuralink is successfully established?
  - card_zero 7mo ago
    Oh that's what you're banging on about. You think AI is like a demon, or you think LLMs are people too, something like that, hence "I don't care what makes the music". That would otherwise be a spooky and implausible phrase that says something strange about what gives music quality, as if quality in music is something ethereal and mathematical and objective and detached from the human condition, and detached from artists. But if you think the AI counts as a person too then it seems less cold and abstract.
    - therealpygon 7mo ago
      Are you really suggesting quality in music isn’t largely mathematical?
      - card_zero 7mo ago
        (Belatedly) yes. Kind of a big argument to grapple with, but let's start by considering everything. I mean, all the stuff, the abstract stuff, that's out there objectively in the universe and in the future, waiting to be discovered. I believe there's quite a considerable amount of it. It's all potentially of interest to us eventually, and only a teeny tiny part of it is comprehensible to us now. That part is at the leading edge, the cutting edge of our enquiries, and in order for us to see and comprehend and even care about that part, it has to relate to us. It has to be oriented to us and our thoughts and things we can use. You see what I'm getting at? Humans don't really like abstract things. Mathematicians seem to, but I doubt that even mathematics truly has an objective abstract quality that's distant from human concerns. I reckon humans do human mathematics, and it probably has fashions, too, it's probably modern and current, that is, of its time and place. So you could accept that, but still claim that music relates strongly to mathematics as we know it. Of course there's such a thing as the mathematics of music. I could dispute the value of that to the quality of the music, as being too abstract and niche compared to the evocative qualities of music, where it evokes things in our physical world: the sounds of hitting things with sticks, heartbeats, tones of voice, meaningful instruments such as bugles evoking battles, mazy noodling around evoking contemplative thoughts (is that abstract?) ... but either way, the point is that we live in a sort of parochial Bag End, if Middle Earth represents everything abstractly possible, and so we only understand hobbit things and only appreciate hobbit art. So to speak.
  - bakugo 7mo ago
    If you're just a machine, can I unplug you?
    - hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
      The same way you can unplug a laptop, I guess?
- hombre_fatal 7mo ago
  All good finds are chanced upon. Just now sometimes it's made by AI.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
obirunda 7mo ago
This is what we call in the business a "fever dream"
- echelon 7mo ago
  Or the uno reverse - that's what the anti-AI crowd is experiencing in their inability to adjust to the coming reality. You're just going to have to make peace. I don't know how y'all can cope with being angry at progress all the time. It's not going to stop for you. It's also really awesome that we live to see this come to pass. We're living in a good dream.