4 ms·

> Iran has been buying and building all of this military infrastructure at the expense of living conditions for its people Iran spends about 2.5% of its GDP on

by oa335 6mo ago

> Iran has been buying and building all of this military infrastructure at the expense of living conditions for its people Iran spends about 2.5% of its GDP on defense, compared to USA at around 3.5%. How much should they be spending? https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=IR-US&start=2000 https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locat...

logicchains 6mo ago
Almost half of the economy is controlled by the IRGC: https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-guard-irgc-business-empire-economy-us-israel-bombing/ https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-gu...
- g8oz 6mo ago
  Extensive domestic economic control by security forces is also a feature of Egypt and Pakistan. America does not complain about those examples of course, because those countries bend the knee.
  - logicchains 6mo ago
    Those countries, like Iran, are also quite poor because the army siphons off so much of their resources.
    - platevoltage 6mo ago
      [flagged]
    - LtWorf 6mo ago
      And it seems that they did in fact need that army.
  - AnimalMuppet 6mo ago
    If by "bend the knee" you mean that they don't regularly chant "death to America", sure.
    - ajsnigrutin 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - bdangubic 6mo ago
        A lot more than 1/2 the world, a lot more...
        lucketone 6mo ago
        Currently lot if people dislike/distrust america. Which is understandable and rational thing to do. Chanting “deato xyz” is very irrational and unproductive and just bad.
        bdangubic 6mo ago
        if I was disliked and distrusted by a lot of people I’d think long and hard about why that is vs. complaining about how that dislike/distrust is communicated
        lucketone 6mo ago
        Do you assume that I am American and that I was complaining about people chanting? I am not; yet I prefer that my side stays rational without such chant’s (somebody has to be the responsible adult)
        bdangubic 6mo ago
        I made no such assumptions, no
- Saline9515 6mo ago
  Which is a logical result of decades of sanctions, allowing only the insiders to profit from the country's ressources while the common man is bared from providing an alternative. Sanctions do not work and only entrench regimes, as we see in Russia, Cuba, North Korea and now Iran.
  - ajsnigrutin 6mo ago
    I've just been at a conference where some high-up guy from germany was talking about the effect of sanctions... russia used to sell wood pulp to germany, german factories would produce paper products and then sell a lot of them back to russia. Then sanctions came, no more very cheap wood pulp for the german industry, and after a year of sanctions, the russians built (i think) 4 large paper factories, so even after the sanctions end, that business is not coming back to germany.
    - nradov 6mo ago
      OK, so what? Obviously we shouldn't continue trading with enemies regardless of the economic impact.
      - Saline9515 6mo ago
        Why? If the objective is to weaken a regime, and the sanctions strengthen it, why should you help your “enemy”? The classic mistake here is to consider that dictatorships are like democracies—they aren't, and their power structure is different and more resilient to economic shocks. Even Bachar Al-Assad, who was much weaker, took 13 years to leave power. At some point, one should question if wide sanctions targeted at increasing the suffering of the civilian population are really worth it.
        lucketone 6mo ago
        - Economic growth slows down under sanction. - removing their leverage over you is also good. Even if regime will not change, it will be weaker
ericmay 6mo ago
They should probably be closer to 0 or more in line with European countries but these numbers aren’t accurate and don’t tell the full story. They don’t, for example, include money paid to and missiles transferred to Houthis to launch from Yemen. Nevermind Hamas and Hezbollah, rebels in Iraq and so forth.
- oa335 6mo ago
  > They should probably be closer to 0 or more in line with European countries Expand on this logic please. European countries are protected by NATO and a nuclear umbrella. Why would you expect a nation state to not invest in its military?
  - ericmay 6mo ago
    > European countries are protected by NATO and a nuclear umbrella. Well, protected by the United States primarily. They've mostly divested from military spending and capabilities over time, which is the ideal thing, but it seems like maybe we can't live in that ideal world, anyway... I'm not suggesting that Iran shouldn't have a military, but instead questioning the purposes for which it would have one. Today its military is used for sending missiles at Gulf States, funding Hezbollah, and oppressing its people. So for it to have little to no military practically speaking would be a good thing. Second at 2.5% GDP (again these figures are highly questionable) that's plenty to have defensive capabilities versus neighbors. There's nobody there to really worry about because who outside of the United States is going to invade Iran? And even then the US is only doing it because they won't stop doing crazy shit and launching missiles at everyone.
    - Planktonne 6mo ago
      > I'm not suggesting that Iran shouldn't have a military, but instead questioning the purposes for which it would have one. Well, they're currently being attacked. "Defending against attackers" is a pretty important purpose for a military.
      - 6mo ago
01100011 6mo ago
Is that reliable? The IRGC basically runs the economy and takes a significant cut. The IGRC is also separate from the military. The nuclear program, quite obviously for military use, may also not be included. What about support for proxy groups? Hezbollah alone gets support above $1B per year.
- brohee 6mo ago
  $1B per year for Hezbollah is like $1 a month per Iranian.I doubt it changes the Iranians living conditions much...
- caminante 6mo ago
  I was aware of the IRGC graft. I tried to check the amounts normalized for % of GDP. Conservative estimates put them at half of the 2% GDP military spend. However, the IRGC's tentacles are also estimated to siphon off something like +50% of the GDP.[0] Not all of that money's going to military hardware, but they have a substantial slush fund and use the Iranian resource base as a military piggy bank. [0]https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-guard-irgc-business-empire-economy-us-israel-bombing/ https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-gu...
  - 01100011 6mo ago
    Not just that, but the IRGC cronies have massive overseas investments bought with stolen money: https://www.transparency.org.uk/news/londons-role-irans-financial-networks-and-why-it-matters-now https://www.transparency.org.uk/news/londons-role-irans-fina...

by oa335 6mo ago

logicchains 6mo ago

Almost half of the economy is controlled by the IRGC: https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-guard-irgc-business-empire-economy-us-israel-bombing/ https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-gu...

g8oz 6mo ago
Extensive domestic economic control by security forces is also a feature of Egypt and Pakistan. America does not complain about those examples of course, because those countries bend the knee.
- logicchains 6mo ago
  Those countries, like Iran, are also quite poor because the army siphons off so much of their resources.
  - platevoltage 6mo ago
    [flagged]
  - LtWorf 6mo ago
    And it seems that they did in fact need that army.
- AnimalMuppet 6mo ago
  If by "bend the knee" you mean that they don't regularly chant "death to America", sure.
  - ajsnigrutin 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - bdangubic 6mo ago
      A lot more than 1/2 the world, a lot more...
      - lucketone 6mo ago
        Currently lot if people dislike/distrust america. Which is understandable and rational thing to do. Chanting “deato xyz” is very irrational and unproductive and just bad.
        bdangubic 6mo ago
        if I was disliked and distrusted by a lot of people I’d think long and hard about why that is vs. complaining about how that dislike/distrust is communicated
        lucketone 6mo ago
        Do you assume that I am American and that I was complaining about people chanting? I am not; yet I prefer that my side stays rational without such chant’s (somebody has to be the responsible adult)
        bdangubic 6mo ago
        I made no such assumptions, no
Saline9515 6mo ago
Which is a logical result of decades of sanctions, allowing only the insiders to profit from the country's ressources while the common man is bared from providing an alternative. Sanctions do not work and only entrench regimes, as we see in Russia, Cuba, North Korea and now Iran.
- ajsnigrutin 6mo ago
  I've just been at a conference where some high-up guy from germany was talking about the effect of sanctions... russia used to sell wood pulp to germany, german factories would produce paper products and then sell a lot of them back to russia. Then sanctions came, no more very cheap wood pulp for the german industry, and after a year of sanctions, the russians built (i think) 4 large paper factories, so even after the sanctions end, that business is not coming back to germany.
  - nradov 6mo ago
    OK, so what? Obviously we shouldn't continue trading with enemies regardless of the economic impact.
    - Saline9515 6mo ago
      Why? If the objective is to weaken a regime, and the sanctions strengthen it, why should you help your “enemy”? The classic mistake here is to consider that dictatorships are like democracies—they aren't, and their power structure is different and more resilient to economic shocks. Even Bachar Al-Assad, who was much weaker, took 13 years to leave power. At some point, one should question if wide sanctions targeted at increasing the suffering of the civilian population are really worth it.
      - lucketone 6mo ago
        - Economic growth slows down under sanction. - removing their leverage over you is also good. Even if regime will not change, it will be weaker

ericmay 6mo ago

They should probably be closer to 0 or more in line with European countries but these numbers aren’t accurate and don’t tell the full story. They don’t, for example, include money paid to and missiles transferred to Houthis to launch from Yemen. Nevermind Hamas and Hezbollah, rebels in Iraq and so forth.

oa335 6mo ago
> They should probably be closer to 0 or more in line with European countries Expand on this logic please. European countries are protected by NATO and a nuclear umbrella. Why would you expect a nation state to not invest in its military?
- ericmay 6mo ago
  > European countries are protected by NATO and a nuclear umbrella. Well, protected by the United States primarily. They've mostly divested from military spending and capabilities over time, which is the ideal thing, but it seems like maybe we can't live in that ideal world, anyway... I'm not suggesting that Iran shouldn't have a military, but instead questioning the purposes for which it would have one. Today its military is used for sending missiles at Gulf States, funding Hezbollah, and oppressing its people. So for it to have little to no military practically speaking would be a good thing. Second at 2.5% GDP (again these figures are highly questionable) that's plenty to have defensive capabilities versus neighbors. There's nobody there to really worry about because who outside of the United States is going to invade Iran? And even then the US is only doing it because they won't stop doing crazy shit and launching missiles at everyone.
  - Planktonne 6mo ago
    > I'm not suggesting that Iran shouldn't have a military, but instead questioning the purposes for which it would have one. Well, they're currently being attacked. "Defending against attackers" is a pretty important purpose for a military.
    - 6mo ago

01100011 6mo ago

Is that reliable? The IRGC basically runs the economy and takes a significant cut. The IGRC is also separate from the military. The nuclear program, quite obviously for military use, may also not be included. What about support for proxy groups? Hezbollah alone gets support above $1B per year.

brohee 6mo ago
$1B per year for Hezbollah is like $1 a month per Iranian.I doubt it changes the Iranians living conditions much...
caminante 6mo ago
I was aware of the IRGC graft. I tried to check the amounts normalized for % of GDP. Conservative estimates put them at half of the 2% GDP military spend. However, the IRGC's tentacles are also estimated to siphon off something like +50% of the GDP.[0] Not all of that money's going to military hardware, but they have a substantial slush fund and use the Iranian resource base as a military piggy bank. [0]https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-guard-irgc-business-empire-economy-us-israel-bombing/ https://fortune.com/2026/03/02/iran-islamic-revolutionary-gu...
- 01100011 6mo ago
  Not just that, but the IRGC cronies have massive overseas investments bought with stolen money: https://www.transparency.org.uk/news/londons-role-irans-financial-networks-and-why-it-matters-now https://www.transparency.org.uk/news/londons-role-irans-fina...