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You'll never win this battle, so why waste feelings and energy on it? That's where the internet is headed. There's no magical human verification technology co
by 0x3f 7mo ago
You'll never win this battle, so why waste feelings and energy on it? That's where the internet is headed. There's no magical human verification technology coming to save us.
- RockRobotRock 7mo ago>There's no magical human verification technology coming to save us. Except for the one Sam Altman is building.
- TrickyRick 7mo agoGiving your retina scan to one of the main Slop Bros, what could possibly go wrong?
- monsieurbanana 7mo agoThat one is magical for sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(illusion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(illusion)
- stackghost 7mo agoScam Altman is not trustworthy. I hope nobody gives him their biometrics. I certainly would never.
- matkoniecz 7mo agoEven if it is impossible to win, I am still feeling bad about it. And at this point it is more about how large space will be usable and how much will be bot-controlled wasteland. I prefer spaces important for me to survive.
- nslsm 7mo agoFeeling bad about something you can’t change is bad for your mental health.
- primevaldad 7mo agoand naming your feelings is the first step toward restoration
- matkoniecz 7mo agoProbably beats being in denial over it and pretending you like it. And identifying problem you dislike is a good first step to find a strategy to solve it at least in part.
- JoshTriplett 7mo agoDeciding that you can't change something is the first and last step towards failing to change it.
- nslsm 7mo agoWhich is not a problem if you choose not to worry about it.
- JoshTriplett 7mo ago"It's uncool to care about things" is, fortunately, not a compelling argument for people who care about things. This tangent does not seem likely to go anywhere productive.
- nslsm 7mo agoThat’s a reductionist and wrong reading of the argument I made.
- JoshTriplett 7mo agoYou said "can’t change". I observed that deciding you can't change something is self-fulfilling. Your argument from that point still relied on the assumption that you can't change it.
- xyzal 7mo agoMagical human verification technology is called "your own private forum" in conjunction with "invite your friends"
- satvikpendem 7mo agoUntil your friend writes a bot. Funny story, when I was younger I trained a basic text predictor deep learning model on all my conversations in a group chat I was in, it was surprisingly good at sounding like me and sometimes I'd use it to generate some text to submit to the chat.
- paradox460 7mo agoI used to leave a megahal connected to my bouncer when I wasn't around
- al_borland 7mo agoI don't see what the value of this would be. Why would I want to automate talking to my friends? If I'm not interested in talking with them, I could simply not do it. It also carries the risk of not actually knowing what was talked about or said, which could come up in real life and lead to issues. If a "friend" started using a bot to talk to me, they would not longer be considered a friend. That would be the end.
- satvikpendem 7mo agoIt was for fun, to see if it were possible and whether others could detect they were talking to a bot or not, you know, the hacker ethos and all. It's not meant to be taken seriously although looks like these days people unironically have LLM "friends."
- xyzal 7mo agoExactly. Pick friends that do not behave like dicks.
- 0x3f 7mo agoI think you underestimate how many people already run their opinions and responses through LLMs, even if the LLM is not writing them wholesale. Intelligence is part of the social game, so appearing to have it matters to people. Friend groups are just social groups of a certain kind, they're not really removed from all this.
- keybored 7mo agoNegative sentiment towards technological destiny detected in human agent.
- jesse_dot_id 7mo agoI assume we're heading to a place where keyboards will all have biometric sensors on every key and measure weight fluctuations in keystrokes, actually.
- j2kun 7mo agoFatalism will also not fix anything. But I suppose death comes for us all, yes? Why do anything at all?
- WarmWash 7mo agoI think "adapt or die" is the takeaway.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- MidnightRider39 7mo agoThis is the only relevant question. And it leads right to the next one which is “what is a good life?” But humans have a huge bias for action. I think generally doing less is better.
- DaiPlusPlus 7mo ago> I think generally doing less is better. My sedentary lifestyle is responsible for my recurrent cellulitis infections. Just saying.
- lazyasciiart 7mo agoI got hit by a car while out for a run. Just saying.
- MidnightRider39 7mo agoYou can probably find a million situations where doing less is terrible. I think first step would be to define for yourself what doing less actually means - it could mean taking a walk instead of chasing dopamine -> doing less but you move more. But whatever it’s a philosophical question and there aren’t any right or true answers
- skybrian 7mo agoOn the other hand, if a dead person can do it better than you can, it's not that much of an accomplishment.
- stackghost 7mo agoI am actively building non-magical human verification technology that doesn't require you uploading your retinal scans or ID to billionaires or incompetent outsourcing firms.
- tlonny 7mo agohow does it work?
- stackghost 7mo agoI'm hoping to do a Show HN soon :)
- anonym29 7mo agoThe technical implementation is the easy part. The hard part is achieving mass voluntary cooperation under adverse incentive schemes.
- stackghost 7mo agoThis is true, but I think there is a sizable (and growing) appetite for human-only spaces.
- lynx97 7mo agoGreat! Lets do the CAPTCHA-test: Will I, as a 100% blind user, be able to complete your process?
- stackghost 7mo agoI think so? Can you use a smartphone? edit: can't reply, the rate-limiting is such an awful UX
- lrvick 7mo agoNot parent poster but I am a maintainer of software powering significant portions of the internet and prove my humanity with a 16 year old PGP key with thousands of transitive trust signatures formed through mostly in-person meetings, using IETF standards and keychain smartcards, as is the case for everyone I work with. But, I do not have an Android or iOS device as I do not use proprietary software, so a smartphone based solution would not work for me. Why re-invent the wheel? Invest in making PGP easier and keep the decades of trust building going anchoring humans to a web of trust that long predates human-impersonation-capable AI.
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoIDK. I sort of like the idea that now instead of dead internet theory being a joke, that it’ll be a well known fact that a minority of people are not real and there is no point in engaging… I look forward to Social 3… where people have to meet face to face.
- saltcured 7mo agoHow quickly would that meat-space renaissance spin through our whole cyberpunk heritage, speedrunning the same authentication challenges..? The cornucopia of gargoyles, living their best life as terminals for the machine. The strange p-zombies who don't show their gargoyle accessories visibly, but somehow still follow the script. Eventually the more insidious infiltrators, requiring a real Voight-Kampff test.
- sebastiennight 7mo ago"minority"? This is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack
- ex-aws-dude 7mo agoThat's why I stopped brushing my teeth, I can't clean every crevice perfectly so what's the point?
- lrvick 7mo agoI can prove all contributions to stagex are by humans because we all belong to a 25 year old web of trust with 5444 endorser keys including most redhat, debian, ubuntu, and fedora maintainers, with all of our own maintainer keys in smartcards we tap to sign every review and commit, and we do background checks on every new maintainer. I am completely serious. We have always had a working proof of human system called Web of Trust and while everyone loves to hate on PGP (in spite of it using modern ECC crypto these days) it is the only widely deployed spec that solves this problem. https://kron.fi/en/posts/stagex-web-of-trust/ https://kron.fi/en/posts/stagex-web-of-trust/
- srmatto 7mo agoCan't you just instruct Claude Code to use your signing keys? I understand you may say "I won't." But my point is that someone can.
- lrvick 7mo agoThe people who signed my keys trust me to be an honest human actor that chose this as the singular identity they signed for the human body they met in person. I -could- burn my 16+ years of reputation by letting a bot start signing commits as me, and I could also set my house on fire. I have very strong incentive not to do so as my aggregate trust is very expensive and the humans that signed me would be unlikely to sign a second if I ruined the reputation of my first. This incentive structure is why web of trust actually works pretty well, and is the best "proof of human" we are likely ever going to have while respecting privacy and anonymity for those that need it.
- nothrabannosir 7mo agoYou can prove the commits were signed by a key you once verified. It is your trust in those people which allows you to extend that to “no LLM” usage, but that’s reframing the conversation as one of trust, not human / machine. Which is (charitably) GPs point: stop framing this as machine vs human — assume (“accept”) that all text can be produced by machines and go from there: what now? That’s where your proposal is one solution: strict web of trust. It has pros and cons (barrier to entry for legitimate first timers), but it’s a valid proposal. All that to say “you’re not disagreeing with the person you’re replying to” lol xD
- thih9 7mo agoHuman verification technology absolutely exists. Give it some time and people who sell ai today are going to shoehorn it everywhere as the solution to the problem they are busy creating now.
- taurath 7mo agoIt’s where THIS internet is headed. The future may involve a lot more of them I think.
- marricks 7mo agoNothing like throwing in the towel before a battle is ever fought. Let's just sigh and wearily march on to our world of AI slop and ever higher bug counts and latency delays while we wait for the five different phone homes and compilations through a billion different LLM's for every silly command.
- themafia 7mo ago> You'll never win this battle, so why waste feelings and energy on it? Cool. The attitude of a bully. Thanks for the contribution!
- joquarky 7mo agoThat's an ironic comment.
- themafia 7mo agoHardly. They're clearly trying to influence a group at large using a flawed logical tactic. I'm pointing that out with a device that suggests their same futility they expect others to adapt should be primarily experienced by them instead. If pointing out bullies is bullying then you're in a ridiculous mindset.
- cindyllm 7mo ago[dead]
- layer8 7mo agoTechnology won’t save us, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be promoting ethics.
- gspr 7mo agoTo feel something. To resist something bad. To stand for what is right. Do those sentiments mean nothing to you?
- 0x3f 7mo agoWell why not head for the front lines of Ukraine? Or Russia, depending on your preference.
- gspr 7mo agoThis is such an incredibly imbecilic comment. Listen to this guy: "because you don't take the ultimate risk for what you believe in, you are dumb for suggesting you should do anything whatsoever". Go away. The world doesn't need your dark resignation.
- danny_codes 7mo agoIt’s certainly winnable with some legislative tweaks. These systems are all designed by humans, we can just change them. Of course, we’d need a significant change of direction in leadership, but it’s happened many times before. French Revolution seems highly relevant
- skybrian 7mo agoI think you're underestimating the difficulty, even for exact copies of text (which AI mostly isn't doing). What sort of Orwellian anti-cheat system would prevent copy and paste from working? What sort of law would mandate that? There are elaborate systems preventing people from copying video but they still have an analog hole.
- xantronix 7mo agoI guess I could just curl up into fetal position and watch the world go by. But that's no fun. Why not dream big and shoot for the moon with kooky goals like, say, having an underground, community-supported internet where things are falling less to shit? Belief in inevitability is a choice (except for maybe dying, I guess).
- jacquesm 7mo agoWhy stop at one? Make more such underground community supported internets. The more the merrier. Monoculture ends with death. The only question is how long it will take.