7 ms·

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On Ma

by x775 6mo ago

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's current indiscriminate "Chat Control 1.0" to lapse [1]. This would have been the ideal outcome. In an unprecedented move, the EPP is attempting to force a repeat vote tomorrow, seeking to overturn the otherwise principled March 11 decision and instead favouring indiscriminate mass surveillance [1, 2]. In an attempt to avoid this, the Greens earlier today tried to remove the repeat vote from the agenda tomorrow, but this was voted down [3]. As such, tomorrow, the Parliament will once again vote on Chat Control. And unlike March 11, multiple groups are split on the vote, including S&D and Renew. The EPP remains unified in its support for Chat Control. If you are a European citizen, I urge you to contact your MEPs by e-mail and, if you have time, by calling. We really are in the final stretch here and every action counts. I have just updated the website to reflect the votes today, allowing a more targeted approach. Happy to answer any questions. [0] https://mepwatch.eu/10/vote.html?v=188578 https://mepwatch.eu/10/vote.html?v=188578 [1] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/the-battle-over-chat-control-how-eu-governments-and-the-tech-lobby-are-trying-to-overturn-parliaments-vote-a-comprehensive-fact-check/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/the-battle-over-chat-contro... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/OJQ-10-2026-03-26_EN.html#V-29 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/OJQ-10-2026-03... [3] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-10-2026-03-25-RCV_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-10-2026-03-...

dinoqqq 6mo ago
You're a hero
weakened_malloc 6mo ago
You're doing God's work mate. It's really surprising to me that this issue keeps coming up time and time again, until I realised that it's non-voted in parties actually trying to pass this stuff! I didn't realise that the EU parliament simply says yes or no to bills and doesn't actually propose new laws, whilst the EU Commission are appointed and decide on what bills to push through.
- hermanzegerman 6mo ago
  The Commission consists of the Member States. So obviously they are also voted-in parties since the government of the Member States is democratically elected
  - weakened_malloc 6mo ago
    True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.
    - markdown 6mo ago
      As it should be. It's good that both the US Fed Reserve Governor and EC appointees didn't have win popularity contests to get there.
      - weakened_malloc 6mo ago
        Eh in a way, I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand if Fed governors didn't have independence, the inflation rate would make Venezuela look like a bastion of economic management. On the other hand, you end up with situations like this where the EC can just keep trying to force in poor policy.
        qwytw 6mo ago
        The Fed has a pretty strict and narrow mandate and an even narrower toolset. They can't start coming up and imposing random laws and regulations (outside the banking sector) just because they want to...
        junofan 6mo ago
        Worth noting they have a strong incentive to grow payroll, which currently stands at 25,000-ish.
daoboy 6mo ago
Thank you for what you're doing, this is an important fight. The story is tragically illustrative of the maxim that you can oppose terrible legislation a hundred times but they only have to pass it once.
belter 6mo ago
How can people support your work?
peq42 6mo ago
I swear to god if the UK gives the world yet MORE surveillance state...
- largbae 6mo ago
  This one is EU I think, but yes UK and everyone else needs to actually protect their citizens' rights.
  - DoingIsLearning 6mo ago
    > This one is EU I think... You misspelled Palantir.
    - Yizahi 6mo ago
      Tolkien had a lot of other catchy names which are yet unused. EU can create it's own Angband or Ungoliant spying corporation :) .
      - gpderetta 6mo ago
        Gorgoroth sounds about right.
Aerroon 6mo ago
>let's vote on this proposal >rejected >let's vote on it again! Is it still a democracy if you just keep redoing the vote until you get the outcome you want? The politicians involved in this should be ashamed of themselves.
- porksoda 6mo ago
  Only if you have more votes after it passes, to vote on unpassing it again
  - Calazon 6mo ago
    I feel like we do that pretty regularly in the US.
  - Avicebron 6mo ago
    This only makes sense if each representative is getting feedback from their constituents each time they take the new vote..I think
  - vaginaphobic 6mo ago
    [dead]
- hermanzegerman 6mo ago
  "Conservatives" feel no shame. But they are first-class in acting like a victim It's the same thing as with your republicans.
  - cindyllm 6mo ago
    [dead]
  - Alles 6mo ago
    Italy, the biggest country opposing this, is composed of mainly "conservative" MEPs from FDI. I think you have a very narrow world view.
CGamesPlay 6mo ago
I am always curious when I see these kinds of movement. It seems abundantly clear that the options on any vote in any legislature for a proposed bill are always “yes” and “ask me later”. So when I see things like Fight Chat Control, it feels like the call is “we must tell our legislators to press the ask later button!” Why? Why has your approach not been toward passing active legislation that protects these rights going forward? Genuinely curious. I understand that finding and pressing the “don’t ask again” button is always harder, but I don’t understand why “we punted on this decision!” is a celebratory moment.
- hsbauauvhabzb 6mo ago
  Also curious, as much as the American amendments are problematic, they do at lease create a hard position on things. We are devolving into a space where I’m genuinely scared that the future will become entirely controlled by big money, and it will be too late to change it.
  - verisimi 6mo ago
    The future you fear is already here, sorry.
  - buzer 6mo ago
    From my understanding Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union is somewhat similar to US Constitution & amendments. Both do still allow government to restrict the freedoms granted by those in some situations though I do think the US Constitution does tend to set higher bar on the interference. There have been EU laws which get struck down because they violated the Charter (e.g. Data Retention Directive).
    - qwytw 6mo ago
      Hopefully even if the worst comes to pass and the EU ends up enacting this law there are still the courts on the EU level and then the national governments and courts in countries where this type of surveillance is illegal can still decide to do whatever the want (i.e. national constitutions general take precedence over EU treaty obligations)
az09mugen 6mo ago
Thanks for your work. Just how is it possible for non-EU lobby to make vote a law in EU, and push for it ?
- verisimi 6mo ago
  Money.
tritiy 6mo ago
I've just used it to send email to my representatives (Croatia). Thanks for the effort.
Palmik 6mo ago
Great work! There is maybe some bug. When you click on one of the 4 "opposing" countries (e.g. Czech Republic, Poland), it scrolls down and then shows that majority of the representatives from the country actually support it. Is that intended? Won't that make people from those countries "relax" even though they might have an impact by contacting their represenatives?
amarcheschi 6mo ago
Some interesting reads https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/29/europol-sought-unlimited-data-access-in-online-child-sexual-abuse-regulation/ https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/29/europol-sought-unlimite... https://www.ftm.eu/articles/ashton-kutchers-non-profit-start-up-makes-millions-from-fighting-child-abuse-online https://www.ftm.eu/articles/ashton-kutchers-non-profit-start...
egorfine 6mo ago
Is there any point in fighting it given that they will rename, repackage and resubmit the legislation in mere days if it doesn't pass? Don't get me wrong: my blood boils reading those legislations, but rationally I don't see a path to victory here.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
laylower 6mo ago
You are a beacon of hope man. Please, please, continue the good fight, we need you. We keep seeing the establishment resurfacing and imposing this blanket surveillance globally. What's happening in Brazil, the UK, EU, and has already happened in the US with no legislation or via the 5-eyes is scary. Who are these people pressuring elected politicians and unelected bureaucrats to legislate against their constituents? Who are these lobbyists? I get that there is a large constituency that wants to control dissidents and the narrative in the name of child abuse - see what's happening in the UK where people get arrested in the thousands for posting comments online. Abolishing privacy is not the way to protect children. Police work and prosecution is. For reference see the grooming gangs in the UK, the infamous Eps*% case for which everyone is still walking free, and other cases in various EU countries. This is not whataboutism, it's proof that we have not taken the required steps as a western society to combat this. You don't press the nuclear option as your first action. If it's bot farm meddling that is the true target, then ban bots and get technology to work properly. Creating ID honeypots on poorly protected website operator servers is not the solution. Call your politicians, call your EU MEPs, call everyone you can. This matters because it's about our future.
varispeed 6mo ago
Why this attempt is not treated as terrorism and authors of the proposals are not arrested? Chat Controls fulfil the definition of terrorism wholly.
mordae 6mo ago
Can we start organizing a strike of tech workers already? Pretty please? Just say the word. Maybe reach out to Signal to implement some kind of one-way channel so you can reach people easily? We need to put actual pressure on those fascists. Next time they even mention it, we flood the council website with an identical search query, say "Does no mean yes after all?" and if they persist, we strike for couple days.
effisfor 6mo ago
Fair play x775, I'm currently moving lots of EU and UK projects away from US-owned and/or sited infrastructure. There is a huge marketing push from the EU cloud providers to display their sovereign wares. Maybe us Europeans need to make them more aware of how futile it is to move to EU companies if there are laws equal-to or more pernicious than the US CLOUD Act? A dozen large EU tech companies will sadly exert more pressure on EU lawmakers than trying to explain to 500 million normal people how a law that looks like it will protect children is a smokescreen and terrible for civil liberties.

by x775 6mo ago

dinoqqq 6mo ago

You're a hero

weakened_malloc 6mo ago

You're doing God's work mate. It's really surprising to me that this issue keeps coming up time and time again, until I realised that it's non-voted in parties actually trying to pass this stuff! I didn't realise that the EU parliament simply says yes or no to bills and doesn't actually propose new laws, whilst the EU Commission are appointed and decide on what bills to push through.

hermanzegerman 6mo ago
The Commission consists of the Member States. So obviously they are also voted-in parties since the government of the Member States is democratically elected
- weakened_malloc 6mo ago
  True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.
  - markdown 6mo ago
    As it should be. It's good that both the US Fed Reserve Governor and EC appointees didn't have win popularity contests to get there.
    - weakened_malloc 6mo ago
      Eh in a way, I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand if Fed governors didn't have independence, the inflation rate would make Venezuela look like a bastion of economic management. On the other hand, you end up with situations like this where the EC can just keep trying to force in poor policy.
      - qwytw 6mo ago
        The Fed has a pretty strict and narrow mandate and an even narrower toolset. They can't start coming up and imposing random laws and regulations (outside the banking sector) just because they want to...
        junofan 6mo ago
        Worth noting they have a strong incentive to grow payroll, which currently stands at 25,000-ish.

daoboy 6mo ago

Thank you for what you're doing, this is an important fight. The story is tragically illustrative of the maxim that you can oppose terrible legislation a hundred times but they only have to pass it once.

belter 6mo ago

How can people support your work?

peq42 6mo ago

I swear to god if the UK gives the world yet MORE surveillance state...

largbae 6mo ago
This one is EU I think, but yes UK and everyone else needs to actually protect their citizens' rights.
- DoingIsLearning 6mo ago
  > This one is EU I think... You misspelled Palantir.
  - Yizahi 6mo ago
    Tolkien had a lot of other catchy names which are yet unused. EU can create it's own Angband or Ungoliant spying corporation :) .
    - gpderetta 6mo ago
      Gorgoroth sounds about right.

Aerroon 6mo ago

>let's vote on this proposal >rejected >let's vote on it again! Is it still a democracy if you just keep redoing the vote until you get the outcome you want? The politicians involved in this should be ashamed of themselves.

porksoda 6mo ago
Only if you have more votes after it passes, to vote on unpassing it again
- Calazon 6mo ago
  I feel like we do that pretty regularly in the US.
- Avicebron 6mo ago
  This only makes sense if each representative is getting feedback from their constituents each time they take the new vote..I think
- vaginaphobic 6mo ago
  [dead]
hermanzegerman 6mo ago
"Conservatives" feel no shame. But they are first-class in acting like a victim It's the same thing as with your republicans.
- cindyllm 6mo ago
  [dead]
- Alles 6mo ago
  Italy, the biggest country opposing this, is composed of mainly "conservative" MEPs from FDI. I think you have a very narrow world view.

CGamesPlay 6mo ago

I am always curious when I see these kinds of movement. It seems abundantly clear that the options on any vote in any legislature for a proposed bill are always “yes” and “ask me later”. So when I see things like Fight Chat Control, it feels like the call is “we must tell our legislators to press the ask later button!” Why? Why has your approach not been toward passing active legislation that protects these rights going forward? Genuinely curious. I understand that finding and pressing the “don’t ask again” button is always harder, but I don’t understand why “we punted on this decision!” is a celebratory moment.

hsbauauvhabzb 6mo ago
Also curious, as much as the American amendments are problematic, they do at lease create a hard position on things. We are devolving into a space where I’m genuinely scared that the future will become entirely controlled by big money, and it will be too late to change it.
- verisimi 6mo ago
  The future you fear is already here, sorry.
- buzer 6mo ago
  From my understanding Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union is somewhat similar to US Constitution & amendments. Both do still allow government to restrict the freedoms granted by those in some situations though I do think the US Constitution does tend to set higher bar on the interference. There have been EU laws which get struck down because they violated the Charter (e.g. Data Retention Directive).
  - qwytw 6mo ago
    Hopefully even if the worst comes to pass and the EU ends up enacting this law there are still the courts on the EU level and then the national governments and courts in countries where this type of surveillance is illegal can still decide to do whatever the want (i.e. national constitutions general take precedence over EU treaty obligations)

az09mugen 6mo ago

Thanks for your work. Just how is it possible for non-EU lobby to make vote a law in EU, and push for it ?

verisimi 6mo ago
Money.

tritiy 6mo ago

I've just used it to send email to my representatives (Croatia). Thanks for the effort.

Palmik 6mo ago

Great work! There is maybe some bug. When you click on one of the 4 "opposing" countries (e.g. Czech Republic, Poland), it scrolls down and then shows that majority of the representatives from the country actually support it. Is that intended? Won't that make people from those countries "relax" even though they might have an impact by contacting their represenatives?

amarcheschi 6mo ago

Some interesting reads https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/29/europol-sought-unlimited-data-access-in-online-child-sexual-abuse-regulation/ https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/29/europol-sought-unlimite... https://www.ftm.eu/articles/ashton-kutchers-non-profit-start-up-makes-millions-from-fighting-child-abuse-online https://www.ftm.eu/articles/ashton-kutchers-non-profit-start...

egorfine 6mo ago

Is there any point in fighting it given that they will rename, repackage and resubmit the legislation in mere days if it doesn't pass? Don't get me wrong: my blood boils reading those legislations, but rationally I don't see a path to victory here.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

laylower 6mo ago

You are a beacon of hope man. Please, please, continue the good fight, we need you. We keep seeing the establishment resurfacing and imposing this blanket surveillance globally. What's happening in Brazil, the UK, EU, and has already happened in the US with no legislation or via the 5-eyes is scary. Who are these people pressuring elected politicians and unelected bureaucrats to legislate against their constituents? Who are these lobbyists? I get that there is a large constituency that wants to control dissidents and the narrative in the name of child abuse - see what's happening in the UK where people get arrested in the thousands for posting comments online. Abolishing privacy is not the way to protect children. Police work and prosecution is. For reference see the grooming gangs in the UK, the infamous Eps*% case for which everyone is still walking free, and other cases in various EU countries. This is not whataboutism, it's proof that we have not taken the required steps as a western society to combat this. You don't press the nuclear option as your first action. If it's bot farm meddling that is the true target, then ban bots and get technology to work properly. Creating ID honeypots on poorly protected website operator servers is not the solution. Call your politicians, call your EU MEPs, call everyone you can. This matters because it's about our future.

varispeed 6mo ago

Why this attempt is not treated as terrorism and authors of the proposals are not arrested? Chat Controls fulfil the definition of terrorism wholly.

mordae 6mo ago

Can we start organizing a strike of tech workers already? Pretty please? Just say the word. Maybe reach out to Signal to implement some kind of one-way channel so you can reach people easily? We need to put actual pressure on those fascists. Next time they even mention it, we flood the council website with an identical search query, say "Does no mean yes after all?" and if they persist, we strike for couple days.

effisfor 6mo ago

Fair play x775, I'm currently moving lots of EU and UK projects away from US-owned and/or sited infrastructure. There is a huge marketing push from the EU cloud providers to display their sovereign wares. Maybe us Europeans need to make them more aware of how futile it is to move to EU companies if there are laws equal-to or more pernicious than the US CLOUD Act? A dozen large EU tech companies will sadly exert more pressure on EU lawmakers than trying to explain to 500 million normal people how a law that looks like it will protect children is a smokescreen and terrible for civil liberties.