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The point of the frogs boiling metaphor is the frogs in fact do not survive.
by ModernMech 7mo ago
The point of the frogs boiling metaphor is the frogs in fact do not survive.
- gambiting 7mo agoIn reality when these experiments were conducted the frog simply jumped out as soon as the temperature started to raise, frogs will not sit there in slowly boiling water and just die without trying to escape way before the water becomes dangerous.
- ModernMech 7mo agoWe need to combine the crabs in the bucket with the frogs in the water and I think we'll have the right metaphor.
- aziaziazi 7mo agoSadly most of us are hopeless lobster boiled by greater powers. Unlike the crabs through you still can save the other lobsters by refraining to eat them.
- adampunk 7mo agoWell, it works with humans just fine.
- Supermancho 7mo agoExcept for when it doesn't. It's not clear to me as to what you are trying to say.
- adampunk 7mo agoNone of us are jumping out of the pot. We will boil happily. An argument to the contrary needs to look outside.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- fwipsy 7mo agoYep, in the experiment where they did not, their brains had been removed. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/guest-post-wisdom-on-frogs/21789/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/guest...
- hsbauauvhabzb 7mo agoSo not to dissimilar from modern society then.
- Zambyte 7mo agoThe point of using the metaphor is that something will have to give if we don't course correct.
- y1n0 7mo agoNo it isn’t. The metaphor is that if you throw a frog into already boiling water it would attempt to jump out. If you start with tepid water and increase the temperature slowly enough they don’t. Sadly this was proven through experiment in the 1800s. It’s an argument that if you make changes slowly enough people won’t notice.
- jdlshore 7mo agoNot really the point, but that experiment was debunked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
- singleshot_ 7mo agoIn the experiment you mention, before they put the frog in the cool water, they removed its brain. Then they boiled the water. The frog did not jump out of the water because it had no brain. The experiment proved the opposite of what you are asserting.
- Schmerika 7mo agoIf every wealthy country had a frog to represent their culture of taking care of workers (strong unions, workers rights, vacation days, not having healthcare tied to their employment, maternity and paternity leave, equitable pay etc), there is one particular frog which most would describe as having had its brain removed.
- ralferoo 7mo agoFrom the wikipedia article linked to just below this reply, it says that the first such experiment is as you described. But then goes on to say: Other 19th-century experiments were purported to show that frogs did not attempt to escape gradually heated water. An 1872 experiment by Heinzmann was said to show that a normal frog would not attempt to escape if the water was heated slowly enough, which was corroborated in 1875 by German scientist Carl Fratscher. I don't see the point of the experiment with the brain removed, but given that they did the experiment with intact frogs as well confirms their original hypothesis. However, later on in the article, it's been disputed in recent years: as the water is heated by about 2 °F (about 1 °C), per minute, the frog becomes increasingly active as it tries to escape, and eventually jumps out if it can. Earlier it also says that frogs put into already water just die (not mentioned, but presumably from shock) and so don't have a chance to start attempting to jump out. I imagine humans dumped into boiling water would have a similar response.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- nine_k 7mo agoWe as a society are both ATCs and plane passengers, and most often, the latter. And when an overworked ATC makes an error, we indeed may fail to survive.
- GeorgeTirebiter 7mo agoyes, and, fortunately -- even the frogs have enough awareness they actually jump out before they are boiled.
- FarmerPotato 7mo agoI have disproved this at home. Frog gets in idle hot tub. I turned up the heater. Soon, frog climbs out.
- shermantanktop 7mo agoIf it can also reverse a string on the whiteboard, extend an offer.
- FarmerPotato 7mo agoThe frog failed the whiteboard test, but it could sing a hella Michigan Rag.
- zippyman55 7mo agoYou know the story about how the frogs, thrown into a hot pot will jump out. But, if you turn up the heat slowly, they just eventually die? Well, the other day, at work, we were called into a room to watch a mandatory video of frogs in this environment. I actually noticed that management had turned the thermostat up really high. I hopped out of that meeting very quickly.