7 ms·
Is it a pint?
- jjgreen 7mo agoIn Yorkshire a short pint will result in "Could you fit a whiskey in there?", "yes of course", "THEN FILL IT WITH BEER"
- calebelac 7mo agoI'm going to start using this approach. Cheers!
- iamcalledrob 7mo ago"Where's the rest of it?"
- bombcar 7mo agoIn the EU I noticed lots of glasses had markings on the side - if it was full to the line, it was a pint (or liter or whatever). McDonalds cups have a line for ice.
- RGamma 7mo agoMeasuring beer is serious business in Germany to the point the EU commission had to comment on a rule change that supposedly forbade the usage of steins for foaming drinks (it didn't, but Germany wanted to be extra strict): https://www.bayern3.de/bier-steinkrug-eu-richtlinie https://www.bayern3.de/bier-steinkrug-eu-richtlinie https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellung-eu-verbietet-nicht-den-bierausschank-aus-steinkrugen-2017-03-28_en https://germany.representation.ec.europa.eu/news/klarstellun...
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- Symbiote 7mo agoAt least in the UK it's a legal requirement to use marked glassware when serving beer, cider and wine. (Or to use a marked measuring cylinder and pour that into the drinkware, which is sometimes done for wine.) It's also the law in at least some EU countries, although I haven't checked beyond Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line
- BoxOfRain 7mo agoIn true British fashion the requirements for draught beer and cider are in pints, while wine is sold in millilitres.
- luplex 7mo agoand crucially, foam has to be above the line. There is some back and forth around whether it's legal to serve beer in traditional ceramic steins, where customers can not verify that the foam really starts above the line. As I understand, it is legal in Germany, but only if there is visible signage that informs customers about their right to pour their beer into a marked standard glass to check the amount. Source (German): https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-denn-das-verzapft-die-mass-ist-voll.html https://www.abendblatt.de/incoming/article402102835/wer-hat-... In 1899, an association was formed in Munich to combat fraudulent pouring. It was banned by the Nazis and re-formed in 1970. They went around and measured beers. This post is its spiritual successor. German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisches_Einschenken https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_gegen_betr%C3%BCgerisch...
- tveita 7mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fill_line Selling drinks in mislabeled containers should warrant a fraud report to your local consumer protection agency. A crowdsourcing app seems like the wrong tool here.
- bombcar 7mo agoThe US is a different place; though I will say that in Europe everything seemed to be right on the line, whereas in the US I'd say that most pours were to the very brim (likely giving me more than advertised).
- NelsonMinar 7mo agoThey are serious about this in Germany. At the Christmas markets it's common to get a single Glühwein mug that you keep and have filled with drinks as you visit. Even these little souvenir keepsakes have a fill line marked on them, no doubt policed by some very stern German standards keepers.
- jghn 7mo agoIn the US at least it's pretty common to see bars using cheater pints. They look like 16 oz pint glasses but with a few tricks wind up only holding 14 oz
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- nathancahill 7mo agoIndeed. And coffee bags have gone from 16oz to 12oz to 10oz and I saw my first 8oz bag recently (while keeping the same form factor).
- Waterluvian 7mo agoIn Canada (and I’m sure elsewhere) there are surprise inspections where government inspectors show up at petrol stations and see if the pump actually gives you what it claims. I volunteer for the pub equivalent of this.
- 9rx 7mo agoYou're in luck. Measurement Canada has the authority to inspect pints. Typically they only act on complaints, though. https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buying-and-selling-measured-goods/units-measurement-used-sell-draft-beer https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/measurement-canada/en/buyin...
- ryandrake 7mo agoI have a feeling that if the USA did random, surprise inspections on businesses to make sure what they were selling was actually as-advertised, the whole system would be exposed as fraud within a month.
- lucideer 7mo agoI don't know if other companies do this anywhere but if you live in Ireland. Diageo have roles for people to travel around the country doing precisely this.
- arkensaw 7mo agoah yes, the guinness vans, I do often see them out and about
- bluGill 7mo agoIn the US every gas pump I've seen (I have not check the majority of states, but still a good sample) has a sticker on it stating inspections and who runs the state department that inspects them. Usually it is a yearly inspection (at least according to the sticker, maybe they do it more often I don't know)
- 7mo ago
- skeptrune 7mo agoMost useful website I've been on in a hot minute
- badgersnake 7mo agoWe’ve had laws requiring landlords to serve standardised pints the UK since 1698. This is not a new problem.
- xnorswap 7mo ago1985 is the current one: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/72/contents https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/72/contents It's why all bars will have a little plaque saying what size their shots are. Almost always 25ml these days, but 35ml was common in many places. You're allowed to serve shots of either size but not in the same pub. ( edit: Better link: https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/specified-quantities https://www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/sp... )
- maxbaines 7mo agoGreat minds...
- graemep 7mo agoI did not know about the 35ml is OK too but not both on the same premises rule.
- tialaramex 7mo agoThe way they got to the 25/ 35 split involves even more craziness. In England the law said spirits are always measured in sixths of a gill. This entire unit is obsolete, but 1/6 is a tiny bit less than 25ml. Fine. However in Scotland two sizes were common, a fifth of a gill (slightly more generous than England) and a "nip" or quarter of a gill (a lot more generous). If you're used to ordering a "nip" of something and now you get a lot less you'd be very angry! So the 35ml option is there for the kind of Scottish or Irish establishment which would have been used to these larger measures rather than either try to keep the gill (which is a stupid unit nobody else needs) or anger drunk people. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Make a sign" difference was to allow licensed premises to gradually shift to the more profitable, smaller, size. Maybe you change the place you own in Glasgow to 25ml first, and if the locals don't kick off you can try Aberdeen next, otherwise try again in a few years.
- xnorswap 7mo agoI got poured a pint by a newbie behind the bar at a hotel recently and she looked embarrassed as it was about 40% head, but to her credit she went to fetch the shift supervisor before I said anything. He explained after pouring it better that, even the remaining head (It had ~3/4 inch even after fixing it) might still be met by derision by many customers. "They'd be asking if you would be charging them for just for the half" etc. There's a bit of leeway but you'll quickly hear about it if you short a pint too much.
- post-it 7mo agoI'm not sure I understand, why didn't she just top it up?
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- dismalaf 7mo agoRight? Just top it up, let some of the foam cascade over the side... Foam always forms in the keg if it sits for too long so you need to let some of it out anyway.
- xnorswap 7mo agoWho knows, she obviously lacked experience, I guess she just panicked or worried it might be an issue with the barrel rather than her pour?
- vojtapol 7mo agoYes. Americans/Canadians famously can't pour beer properly. If you are pouring a pilsner or really any lager, a head of at least 2 inches is actually correct and absolutely desirable. The way it's poured in Canada (no head) is borderline undrinkable to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dggKezrSQxI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dggKezrSQxI
- masfuerte 7mo agoIf an establishment wants to serve drinks with a head they should use glasses with a mark on the side indicating the measure, rather than glasses which need to be brim full. Using the latter style of glass and including a head is just ripping off the customer.
- steveharing1 7mo ago[flagged]
- wodenokoto 7mo ago> 79.3% of pours were short (under 100% of claimed volume) That is quite surprising. What breweries used to do when I worked in cafes and bars was to paint a mark on the glass and under it write "0.5" (in market that sells in liters and not in pints) and this mark is above[1] the half liter mark. Note that it is without units. Pubs and bars get glasses for cheap or free and the brewery/distributor tries to trick the bar into selling more beer than they expect. [1] We checked using measure cups from the kitchen. Maybe there is a conspiracy to have kitchens use too little ingredients.
- ch_123 7mo agoIn the UK and Ireland, a pint is 20 oz. (equivalent to just over 19 US ounces), so I always feel cheated by 16 oz. "pint" glasses in the US.
- loeg 7mo agoIt's not completely uncommon to be offered 16 oz or 20 oz as options in the US. But I see it more at "fast casual" restaurants than bars or more upscale restaurants.
- cbm-vic-20 7mo agoAnd of course, what an "ounce" means may vary. According to Wikipedia "An imperial fluid ounce is defined in British law as exactly 28.4130625 millilitres, while a US customary fluid ounce is exactly 29.5735295625 mL, and a US food labelling fluid ounce is 30 mL."
- dghf 7mo agoThis is why I get agitated when Americans claim to use imperial units. If they did, their pints would be the correct size.
- cjs_ac 7mo agoAmericans don't claim to use imperial weights and measures; they use customary weights and measures, which were also used in the UK prior to the creation of imperial units with the Weights and Measures Act 1824.
- kube-system 7mo agoThere are many people in America who do not know the difference, the mistake is fairly common.
- bee_rider 7mo agoAt this point they are just American units, right? Since the UK has upgraded already.
- lucideer 7mo agoI'm from Ireland, where filling beers precisely up to the brim is practically a religion, & many barmen will even take the glass back & top it up if they see the head diminishing too quickly in the space of time it takes you to pick the freshly poured pint up. One thing that always struck me as odd is how the culture is seemingly the opposite of this in apparent beer meccas like Belgium - not only are the glasses typically much smaller (this is fine) but they also leave massive gaps at the top. The glass capacity is never treated as being close to the rim at all.
- petesergeant 7mo agoThe only sensible approach here is pint-to-line glasses. I don't want my glass filled to the very top where I'll spill it, I want it filled to the pint line. Sadly in the UK up to 5% of the pint is allowed to be foam, but I'd expect any sensible barman in the UK to top me up to the pint line if I asked, and be apologetic about it.
- philipwhiuk 7mo agoKind of. Guinness glasses are exactly a pint, so the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer. This is tolerated/expected and so de facto correct but de jure perhaps not.
- lucideer 7mo ago> the Guinness head means you're getting less than a pint of actual beer I hate to be pedantic but pint being volumetric, you're still getting a pint, independent of density. Also - a nitrogen head doesn't dissipate, so you never get a gap. I'm now curious though whether a nitrogen head is less dense than a CO2 head...
- ahartmetz 7mo agoIt feels much denser, and I think it does dissipate... but slowly.
- 7mo ago
- calebelac 7mo agoThanks for sharing! Glad to see there's some momentum behind this libatious tragedy
- TheGRS 7mo agoI'll happily volunteer for this. I may have found my new purpose in life!
- BashiBazouk 7mo agoReminds me of backpacking up and down the east coast of Australia. I learned that Fosters is only northern New South Wales for beer. Every place had their own preferred beer, but maddeningly they all had their own glass. A tenner, a schooner. Each a slightly different size. I made friends with a guy in Hobart that was staying in the hostel as he was doing research there, I think he was a biologist. He took me to his favorite pub as they served imperial pints. I think who ever is behind this site needs to do some serious research in Australia as they could, at least, double the "know your glass" section...
- mcbain 7mo agoYou might enjoy the matrix of regional sizes and names on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Australia#Beer_glasses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Australia#Beer_glasses No, us locals don't know them all either!
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- hug 7mo agoAs someone heavily involved in the hospitality (read: beer) area, this doesn't really line up with reality in Australia: there's only one state (South Australia) that doesn't agree on the major standard sizes: Pints are 470ml, schooners are 425ml, a half pint is 285ml, and a pony is 140ml. There's colloquialisms for a half: pot, or middy, mostly. Hobart will call a half pint a ten, because it's 10oz, but they also know what you're talking about when you ask for a pot or a half pint. Then there's South Australia, which will serve you a pint at 425ml, a schooner at 285ml, no one there outside of specialty craft beer bars have any idea what a half pint is, and if you want a proper pint you need to ask for an imperial pint. I have never seen an 'imperial pint' advertised in Hobart - it's just called a pint there. Source: I have pretty extensive drinking experience in pretty much all of the Australian capital cities, except Perth.
- BashiBazouk 7mo ago
- amonon 7mo agoLook, I get it. Beer is expensive, these days. Always has been. But I feel like these movements miss the forest for trees. If we mandate beer volume then places that are “shorting” you will just raise the prices. Not to mention the tax on beer that would be required to pay for the inspection service. No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere. Also, you know what really annoys me? When a bartender pulls a pint for me, and it’s up to the brim with no foam. Foam is part of the joy of a crisp beer. It adds aroma and anticipation. If I wanted to drink something with no foam I’d drink a soda. And in my heart of hearts (or stomach if stomachs?) I fear that’s where these arguments lead.
- roxolotl 7mo agoThe solution is in other comments. In the EU glasses are etched with a fill line. Not filled to the mark? You complain.
- amonon 7mo agoThat seems very reasonable to me.
- graemep 7mo ago> No one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but there’s solution is to take your business elsewhere. People need to know how much they got. it can be hard to judge, especially as you will be comparing across visits to different places on different days, and different styles of glass, etc.
- Johnny555 7mo agoNo one likes feeling like they got less than they paid for, but without regulation, how do you know that you got less than you paid for unless you're going to carry around a measuring glass yourself? If the places that were shorting you have to raise prices when they have to give you what you paid for, that's false economy -- you're not saving money, if you want to drink less beer to save money, ask for a smaller glass.
- d--b 7mo agoAs infuriating as it may be, it's a good occasion to learn to let go. Rationally, you're paying way more than the liquid in the glass, so just mentally tell yourself that the haircut is included in the price, and that's fine. If you can't stand the price anyway, change bar. You're there to chill. Just chill.
- goosejuice 7mo agoI'm sure the same individuals will calculate tip to the cent as well. As someone who worked in specialty foods for years, you get what you get. Flaws and all. That's part of the charm of this industry. This is especially true for small craft breweries. If you insist on accuracy then ask for a can/bottle list. If you insist on consistency then buy macro.
- twodave 7mo agoNow this is what the Internet is really supposed to be about.
- oldandboring 7mo agoI enjoyed reading this site and appreciate the passion and the effort. The "loss of the pint" is basically shrink-flation. When a bar's costs and/or overhead goes up, they must do some combination of cutting expenses and raising prices. Raising prices means either selling the same stuff in the same quantity for more, or selling cheaper stuff OR less of the same stuff at the same price. Most bars will opt for the latter options to avoid raising prices, because raising prices is more likely to create complaints. All caveats apply, of course -- drop portions or quality too much or too often and you'll get complaints for sure, but "within reason" it's the lesser of two evils. This is why I personally don't feel like I'm being cheated out of 2oz when I buy a $8 14oz shaker pint of IPA. Clearly, the cost per oz at this bar is $0.57. A 16oz glass would cost $9.14. They don't owe me the 2oz for free just because they used the word "pint". If the state government started enforcing pint measures again, bars would just drop the word "pint" from their signs and menus.
- bee_rider 7mo agoIs it called a shaker pint for association with the famously restrained Shakers?
- oldandboring 7mo agoAccording to my half-assed internet research, it's because it was designed to be used when shaking cocktails.
- Forgeties79 7mo agoIt’s such a small thing but when a brewery or restaurant featuring beers writes “pint” as an option and gives me a typical US beer glass (shaker I believe) it annoys the hell out of me. Don’t explicitly write “pint” if it isn’t at least north of 15oz. Definitely don’t if the glass literally can’t hold a pint.
- goosejuice 7mo agoWait until they discover cocktails. Bickering over a few dollars when you're paying a premium price for the experience of going out is rather silly. There's better uses of your time, like enjoying yourself. If you're not familiar with the mess that was nips: https://carolinas.eater.com/2015/10/16/9553903/mini-bottles-charleston-law-cocktails https://carolinas.eater.com/2015/10/16/9553903/mini-bottles-...
- chaboud 7mo agoI've joked that the 16oz US pint was a long-play metric-system scheme to drive adoption of 500ml (~16.9oz) as a measure, a Pavlovian mechanic to trick beer-drinking Americans that the metric system is actually better because it results in more beer. The joke's on them. We're all about 12oz cans! 33cl? pfft... Germans have it nailed down with the Kölsch Stange, a 200ml glass that so readily disappears that it stays cold and you just get another from the Kranz.
- wolfi1 7mo agono one drinks it that way, except for those who drive. and believe me, for half a litre in half an hour one yields an acceptable beer temperature
- zabzonk 7mo agoI used to work in the Netherlands (i'm from the UK) and I could never understand how the Dutch put up with so much froth on their beer, even really enjoying being ripped off by it.
- froh 7mo agothere is a calibration marker on the glass and the liquid has to be filled up to that line, the froth on top is extra. so on the continent we get more, not less. so from where we stand it looks rather like the islanders are ripped off ;-) cheers
- zabzonk 7mo agoI'm not denying this, but I do remember a jug of beer being ordered and me being asked to pour it into several glasses without noticeable markings, and me trying to end up with about a 1/4 inch of head as I would in the UK and my Dutch friends yelling "more head" or something even less than polite. Mostly in the NL I drink bottled beer. And I'm a Yorkshire man, at least by birth.
- hencq 7mo agoYeah, in the Netherlands 2 finger widths is the norm. But if it's more than that, people will get upset that you're pouring them milk.
- zabzonk 7mo agoI really liked working in the NL, but their food and drink I could not get used to. I did a bit of consultancy at KLM, and what was offered for lunch in the cafeteria turned my stomach - artificial meat, artificial bread. I complained about this to one of the KLM staffers I was working with - "We know, We know, and of course the bosses never eat here" Also, the Dutch idea of Chinese food is very strange (basically some sort of Indonesian thing - and I like Indonesian, but not that). Anyway you in no way requested a critique of Dutch cuisine, but I'm glad I got it off my chest. So, apologies.
- eternauta3k 7mo agoOne thought I keep coming back to is the immense consequences of how our units of length, weight and volume were defined. Products are often sold with round numbers (1 liter, 0.5 liter, 1 kg, etc). If you could go back in time and fiddle with e.g. the definition of a pint, you'd see that reducing its volume would lead to people drinking less, until it's so small that people just order two pints.
- stuartaxelowen 7mo agoIn Taiwan the standard way to drink beer is to get it in large bottles, but shared with a small glass per person. Easy to not drink much that way, and promotes the social “let me fill your glass” behavior. (making it harder to not drink much)
- metalman 7mo agoI had a mk1 diesel rabbit, which when asked about the mileage, I would reply that is got 15 miles to the pint, though further into my youth people still refered to a "point of rum", as a measure distinct from all others, but of course bieng Canadian, beer comes in quarts.
- hrmtst93837 7mo ago[flagged]
- cesaref 7mo agoOn the subject of the weights and measures to check that a pint is a pint, I remember the father of a friend of mine at university who was responsible for the weights and measures for Staffordshire. I think he was the undersheriff or something like that, and that the official pint was part of the collection. This would have been in the late 80s - i've no idea if it was still in use, but i've a feeling that the law hadn't necessarily moved on, so I guess the official measure could have been required if challenged in court.
- stego-tech 7mo agoThis is the sort of goodness the internet was made for. I'm no beer drinker myself, but I'm already sharing it with those in my circles who do. Also a great way to teach folks on how to hold others honest and accountable, a skill sorely underdeveloped at present. Start with the pours, and push upward from there.
- scoofy 7mo agoI discovered long ago that you might as well order a can in the states because you'll pay less and get effectively the same amount of beer.
- tristor 7mo agoGlad to see I'm not the only person that this bothers. I've been to more than 75 countries, to 43 US states, more than 2500 breweries, and I have drank more than 10k unique beers. Many beers styles should be correctly served in different glass shapes than a standard pint glass, but short pours are endemic, especially in the United States and in Canada. I always appreciate when I get a pint at a bar and see that they're using actual imperial nonic glasses with a pour line at 16oz/568ml.
- joombaga 7mo agoI'm having trouble understanding these 2 claims from the summary: > 1 in 2 pints delivered less than 14.4 oz (below 90%) > 37.9% were significantly short (under 90% of claimed volume) Aren't those the same claim with different percentages? 1 in 2 is 50%, and 50% is less than 37.9%
- justonceokay 7mo agoSounds like a typo you are overanalyzing. I bet the second number was supposed to be 80%.
- ljsprague 7mo agoI don't think it's overanalyzing to point out a typo.
- credit_guy 7mo agoIf you compare the US and the UK regarding the alcoholic beverage servings, then you can reach two conclusions, depending whether you think drinking alcohol is good or bad. If you think it's bad, then the US is better, because the restaurants in the US tend to serve smaller sizes. I am in this camp. In the UK, by comparison, the restaurants are much more generous; wine glasses seem gargantuan compared to wine glasses in the US. I suppose some people like that, but I am not sure that's really something to admire.
- RyanOD 7mo agoCoffee pours are similarly sketchy.
- pintpatrol 7mo agoI think you'll all love this. I just made a study of this in the US, which you can read at isitapint.com This is very new and I'm between jobs having some fun. I also made a free app that maps measurements of pints (or any pour) that users make, meaning you can share where short pints are poured and more importantly where honest pints are being poured. It should work in the UK, but I set this up in the US. I intend for it to work internationally. Eventually the app will have a large enough database of poured pints that have been measured by scale that a simple photo will give a very accurate measurement if the glass is recognized. I hope it helps humanity.
- pintpatrol 7mo agoOh yeah, and Reddit banned me for bringing it up there. So, that's cool. And BeerAdvocate took down my post about it too... so I'm reaching out to bloggers and podcasters now for interviews. I have no idea how I'm going to publicize this except maybe by gorilla tactics.