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> Whereas you'd practically be a ghost before weight loss, random people will suddenly look you in your eyes, smile, even start conversations with you. I watch

> Whereas you'd practically be a ghost before weight loss, random people will suddenly look you in your eyes, smile, even start conversations with you. I watched something like this happen in a friend, but as an outside observer I saw a different explanation: The period when he got into shape involved a lot of changes for the better in his life, including becoming more outgoing, motivated, and disciplined (necessary prerequisites for weight loss in the pre-medication era). He also bought a new wardrobe and replaced his old worn out logo T-shirts and cargo shorts with clothes more appropriate for an adult. He also started paying attention to his grooming and hair style instead of looking like he just woke up. For a while he tried to explain it all by his weight loss alone, but over time he realized it was an overall change in everything about the way he carried himself and presented himself to the world. I won’t deny that there is some stigma around being overweight from some people, but I’ve also rarely seen a person change only their weight. Now that GLP-1s are everywhere I do know a few people who slimmed down rapidly without changing anything else and expected things like their dating life to completely change but have been disappointed that little has changed socially for them. They do feel a lot better though!

ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago
I have a lot of respect for folks that successfully lose a great deal of weight. If I know someone did that, my estimation of them generally goes up, several notches. I'm no stranger to quitting stuff, but significant weight loss is still terrifying to me. I could benefit from losing 20-30 lbs, myself, and it's not been easy. Success has been ... elusive. Maybe it's different, these days, with GLP-1 drugs (I have always called it "Gila Lizard Poison" in my head), but it takes serious discipline and grit to lose the weight, and keep it off. That generally comes from massive personal change; both internal, and external. Quite difficult.
- relaxing 8mo ago
  I’ve noticed there’s a similar challenge in keeping bad ideas out of your head.
  - bombcar 8mo ago
    Weight loss, debt recovery, and other habit changes are just that - changes to habit which are much more difficult if you don't admit that's what you're doing. This has been discussed from time immemorial and confronting it as it is (that in the case of habits we are more animal than rational) is the beginning of change. An example is that you can't just "cut it out" you have to replace it with something else.
- deeg 8mo ago
  Losing weight is one of the prime examples of the difference between simple and easy. We've evolved over millions of years to try to gain weight; reversing that is hard.
- Cthulhu_ 8mo ago
  It's difficult if you think of it as big, but what if you break it down into smaller, manageable steps? Start by being consciously aware of what you eat in a day (or better yet, week); write it down, do some back of the napkin calorie calculations. Then adjust. Change one habit; could be reducing portion size by a hundred grams, drinking less, switching to black coffee, I don't know what people have for habits. Same with exercising, don't go all in at once, try going to the gym or for a long walk once a week. It takes six weeks to stop, change or start a habit, so it will take some self-discipline for that period. But if it's small, incremental change instead of a "change your life around" it's a lot more manageable. Also be aware of the "survivorship bias", the "before / after" posts on social media, the "I changed my life in $period" - these make it look like it was an overnight lifestyle change, but that's not necessarily true, what you see is the end result and if you pay attention you'll notice that usually there's years between the before / after without any breakdown or in-between progress.
amelius 8mo ago
> He also bought a new wardrobe and replaced his old worn out logo T-shirts and cargo shorts with clothes more appropriate for an adult. I think the problem many __men__ have with that is that an "appropriate" wardrobe looks more uniform and less individualized, basically boring.
- iamacyborg 8mo ago
  I don’t think that’s particularly true. There’s a lot you can do with texture, colours and silhouettes, even within items that are “the same”. I do think most men are pretty unimaginative when it comes to dressing themselves though, and most can’t even do basic things like getting trousers hemmed to fit them properly.
  - gcanyon 8mo ago
    Never forget the Australian newscaster who wore the same suit for a year and no one noticed/called him out for it. His broadcasting partner, a woman, had been called out for wearing the same outfit previously. There may be subtle variations available to men, but the simple fact is that many fewer people notice or care. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-30069564 https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-30069564
    - iamacyborg 8mo ago
      > There may be subtle variations available to men, but the simple fact is that many fewer people notice or care. I wouldn’t say that’s the takeaway, even with a simple navy suit you have a lot of options. What that article does do though is highlight just how low the bar is for men to dress.
- taeric 8mo ago
  While I can kind of see what you are aiming at, a basic button down and clean pants go a long way. Keep it ironed and clean, and you go even further. No need for the anything that looks like a uniform.
  - 8mo ago
kapep 8mo ago
A data point, though my situation is not even about weight: I used to be skinny fat in my mid-twenties until mid-thirties - so basically still kind of slim but some belly fat and not much muscles. Kind of average, unremarkable. After a breakup I started being more active again, I went bouldering once a week and gradually got into shape and then really athletic after about 2 years when I started going twice a week. My total weight didn't change at all. I dress just as good as before and have the same overall style. Of course most clothes simply look better on me, now that I'm more in shape. Same good job that I still like. I do go out a bit more. But overall I would say I really didn't change anything except getting more attractive from putting on muscles and losing fat. It made a hell of a difference for dating. Before I felt mostly invisible but since then got approached in bars all the time, which rarely happened before. After some time I got way more confident - but when this stated I sure wasn't yet. Some woman even told me into the face that I lacked confidence after they approached me and realized I don't have the personality and/or confidence matching my appearance. They certainly only approached me because of my appearance. The people only loosing weight are probably held back by other things. If they changed everything but their weight they likely wouldn't have more success either. I would say I had most things figured out already before and It seems I was held back only by having an average build. Just getting fit absolutely made the difference for me.
- CalRobert 8mo ago
  Sounds like a body recomp- well done! Edit: no idea why downvoted but it refers to staying roughly the same weight while building muscle and reducing fat. And having tried it, it’s hard! I stand by my “well done”
  - kapep 8mo ago
    Thanks! I really feel I had it easier than most though because of genetics I guess. I see others train much harder for less results. I didn't even change my diet much except shifting to a lot more protein-rich food. I have lots of respect for people loosing a lot weight and having to work way harder than me for it.
  - nullandvoid 8mo ago
bawolff 8mo ago
> I won’t deny that there is some stigma around being overweight from some people, but I’ve also rarely seen a person change only their weight. This feels like it could be a correlation vs causation thing. Its a lot easier to put effort in if you see it getting results. Is it that they suddenly put effort in triggering all this or is it the weighg loss made the investment of putting effort in return results where previously you'd need a much higher level of effort to see results making it only seem worth it after the weight loss? Or is it the weight loss resulted in higher self confidence giving all sorts of knock on effects. I think its really hard to tease apart cause and effect here. Would the same changes be possible without the weight loss or have the same results is kind of a hard question to answer.
wakawaka28 8mo ago
>For a while he tried to explain it all by his weight loss alone, but over time he realized it was an overall change in everything about the way he carried himself and presented himself to the world. All of what you're saying is just looks. Clothes, posture, etc. all matter and we all know some exceptions to the rule, but people make clothes look good and not so much the other way around. >Now that GLP-1s are everywhere I do know a few people who slimmed down rapidly without changing anything else and expected things like their dating life to completely change but have been disappointed that little has changed socially for them. Not everyone looks better if they slim down. And if you do it the wrong way, or don't update your clothes to not be baggy, or just plain have excessive expectations, it's going to be disappointing. Losing weight just gets you to the baseline of where you might not make people want to look away or find reasons to not like you. If you're short, then you'll still be short after losing weight. If you're ugly in the face, you'll still be ugly, if not more ugly. I know you're talking about men because even overweight women have lots of options. Dating is also nearly impossible for average men now. You shouldn't assume that weight doesn't make a huge difference based on a few examples of guys who can't get dates. Think of it more like not being fat is to make others not immediately blow you off for that one reason.
- jimbokun 8mo ago
  It’s a lot harder than in the past but I doubt that it’s “nearly impossible.”
  - wakawaka28 8mo ago
    It is practically so much harder that I think it qualifies. How many rejections or years of effort do you think one must endure before he can reasonably say it's nearly impossible? I'm not going to get into how stats are on my side, the dismal outcomes on dating apps are a reflection on the state of the overall market, etc. But these are far worse than most people expect.
phil21 8mo ago
I think there are too many variables to really control for well on this one. Obviously someone who does what your friend did is going to have many factors changing how people interact with them and it will accumulate into and even larger total effect. I lost 100lbs very rapidly. The difference in attention and little social things was noticeable almost immediately. Same style of dress, moderately kept hair, but otherwise decent personal care on both sides of the weight loss. What is interesting though to me is that I hit my goal weight right around the time some major life events happened and I pretty much was operating at the lowest self confidence levels I ever had in my life. I was less social and much more withdrawn than before. I still would notice the “second glances” from folks I never got before, and even friendly greetings etc that were a bit weird at first to me. I don’t think you can really translate these changes into dating success or whatnot without other life changes though. They just Lower the difficulty level - you still need to put the work in.
dghughes 8mo ago
That reminds me of when I was undiagnosed with hypothyroidism only in reverse. In my late 20s I made an effort to dress better, no jeans or dirty sneakers, hair cut, gel, gym at least three times a week. Then all that started to slide, brain fog, stay at home, just no energy. It took probably 10 years but finally I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I wonder if a lot of overweight people started out like me but were never diagnosed. At diagnosis I wasn't overweight but I have since gained weight just due to my metabolism now. I was always slim all my life now I'm on the low end of overweight. So yeah weight can be a problem but so can other issues. It's difficult to be yourself when you have hidden weights you don't even realize are dragging you down.

ChrisMarshallNY 8mo ago

I have a lot of respect for folks that successfully lose a great deal of weight. If I know someone did that, my estimation of them generally goes up, several notches. I'm no stranger to quitting stuff, but significant weight loss is still terrifying to me. I could benefit from losing 20-30 lbs, myself, and it's not been easy. Success has been ... elusive. Maybe it's different, these days, with GLP-1 drugs (I have always called it "Gila Lizard Poison" in my head), but it takes serious discipline and grit to lose the weight, and keep it off. That generally comes from massive personal change; both internal, and external. Quite difficult.

relaxing 8mo ago
I’ve noticed there’s a similar challenge in keeping bad ideas out of your head.
- bombcar 8mo ago
  Weight loss, debt recovery, and other habit changes are just that - changes to habit which are much more difficult if you don't admit that's what you're doing. This has been discussed from time immemorial and confronting it as it is (that in the case of habits we are more animal than rational) is the beginning of change. An example is that you can't just "cut it out" you have to replace it with something else.
deeg 8mo ago
Losing weight is one of the prime examples of the difference between simple and easy. We've evolved over millions of years to try to gain weight; reversing that is hard.
Cthulhu_ 8mo ago
It's difficult if you think of it as big, but what if you break it down into smaller, manageable steps? Start by being consciously aware of what you eat in a day (or better yet, week); write it down, do some back of the napkin calorie calculations. Then adjust. Change one habit; could be reducing portion size by a hundred grams, drinking less, switching to black coffee, I don't know what people have for habits. Same with exercising, don't go all in at once, try going to the gym or for a long walk once a week. It takes six weeks to stop, change or start a habit, so it will take some self-discipline for that period. But if it's small, incremental change instead of a "change your life around" it's a lot more manageable. Also be aware of the "survivorship bias", the "before / after" posts on social media, the "I changed my life in $period" - these make it look like it was an overnight lifestyle change, but that's not necessarily true, what you see is the end result and if you pay attention you'll notice that usually there's years between the before / after without any breakdown or in-between progress.

amelius 8mo ago

> He also bought a new wardrobe and replaced his old worn out logo T-shirts and cargo shorts with clothes more appropriate for an adult. I think the problem many __men__ have with that is that an "appropriate" wardrobe looks more uniform and less individualized, basically boring.

iamacyborg 8mo ago
I don’t think that’s particularly true. There’s a lot you can do with texture, colours and silhouettes, even within items that are “the same”. I do think most men are pretty unimaginative when it comes to dressing themselves though, and most can’t even do basic things like getting trousers hemmed to fit them properly.
- gcanyon 8mo ago
  Never forget the Australian newscaster who wore the same suit for a year and no one noticed/called him out for it. His broadcasting partner, a woman, had been called out for wearing the same outfit previously. There may be subtle variations available to men, but the simple fact is that many fewer people notice or care. https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-30069564 https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-30069564
  - iamacyborg 8mo ago
    > There may be subtle variations available to men, but the simple fact is that many fewer people notice or care. I wouldn’t say that’s the takeaway, even with a simple navy suit you have a lot of options. What that article does do though is highlight just how low the bar is for men to dress.
taeric 8mo ago
While I can kind of see what you are aiming at, a basic button down and clean pants go a long way. Keep it ironed and clean, and you go even further. No need for the anything that looks like a uniform.
- 8mo ago

kapep 8mo ago

A data point, though my situation is not even about weight: I used to be skinny fat in my mid-twenties until mid-thirties - so basically still kind of slim but some belly fat and not much muscles. Kind of average, unremarkable. After a breakup I started being more active again, I went bouldering once a week and gradually got into shape and then really athletic after about 2 years when I started going twice a week. My total weight didn't change at all. I dress just as good as before and have the same overall style. Of course most clothes simply look better on me, now that I'm more in shape. Same good job that I still like. I do go out a bit more. But overall I would say I really didn't change anything except getting more attractive from putting on muscles and losing fat. It made a hell of a difference for dating. Before I felt mostly invisible but since then got approached in bars all the time, which rarely happened before. After some time I got way more confident - but when this stated I sure wasn't yet. Some woman even told me into the face that I lacked confidence after they approached me and realized I don't have the personality and/or confidence matching my appearance. They certainly only approached me because of my appearance. The people only loosing weight are probably held back by other things. If they changed everything but their weight they likely wouldn't have more success either. I would say I had most things figured out already before and It seems I was held back only by having an average build. Just getting fit absolutely made the difference for me.

CalRobert 8mo ago
Sounds like a body recomp- well done! Edit: no idea why downvoted but it refers to staying roughly the same weight while building muscle and reducing fat. And having tried it, it’s hard! I stand by my “well done”
- kapep 8mo ago
  Thanks! I really feel I had it easier than most though because of genetics I guess. I see others train much harder for less results. I didn't even change my diet much except shifting to a lot more protein-rich food. I have lots of respect for people loosing a lot weight and having to work way harder than me for it.
- nullandvoid 8mo ago

bawolff 8mo ago

> I won’t deny that there is some stigma around being overweight from some people, but I’ve also rarely seen a person change only their weight. This feels like it could be a correlation vs causation thing. Its a lot easier to put effort in if you see it getting results. Is it that they suddenly put effort in triggering all this or is it the weighg loss made the investment of putting effort in return results where previously you'd need a much higher level of effort to see results making it only seem worth it after the weight loss? Or is it the weight loss resulted in higher self confidence giving all sorts of knock on effects. I think its really hard to tease apart cause and effect here. Would the same changes be possible without the weight loss or have the same results is kind of a hard question to answer.

wakawaka28 8mo ago

>For a while he tried to explain it all by his weight loss alone, but over time he realized it was an overall change in everything about the way he carried himself and presented himself to the world. All of what you're saying is just looks. Clothes, posture, etc. all matter and we all know some exceptions to the rule, but people make clothes look good and not so much the other way around. >Now that GLP-1s are everywhere I do know a few people who slimmed down rapidly without changing anything else and expected things like their dating life to completely change but have been disappointed that little has changed socially for them. Not everyone looks better if they slim down. And if you do it the wrong way, or don't update your clothes to not be baggy, or just plain have excessive expectations, it's going to be disappointing. Losing weight just gets you to the baseline of where you might not make people want to look away or find reasons to not like you. If you're short, then you'll still be short after losing weight. If you're ugly in the face, you'll still be ugly, if not more ugly. I know you're talking about men because even overweight women have lots of options. Dating is also nearly impossible for average men now. You shouldn't assume that weight doesn't make a huge difference based on a few examples of guys who can't get dates. Think of it more like not being fat is to make others not immediately blow you off for that one reason.

jimbokun 8mo ago
It’s a lot harder than in the past but I doubt that it’s “nearly impossible.”
- wakawaka28 8mo ago
  It is practically so much harder that I think it qualifies. How many rejections or years of effort do you think one must endure before he can reasonably say it's nearly impossible? I'm not going to get into how stats are on my side, the dismal outcomes on dating apps are a reflection on the state of the overall market, etc. But these are far worse than most people expect.

phil21 8mo ago

I think there are too many variables to really control for well on this one. Obviously someone who does what your friend did is going to have many factors changing how people interact with them and it will accumulate into and even larger total effect. I lost 100lbs very rapidly. The difference in attention and little social things was noticeable almost immediately. Same style of dress, moderately kept hair, but otherwise decent personal care on both sides of the weight loss. What is interesting though to me is that I hit my goal weight right around the time some major life events happened and I pretty much was operating at the lowest self confidence levels I ever had in my life. I was less social and much more withdrawn than before. I still would notice the “second glances” from folks I never got before, and even friendly greetings etc that were a bit weird at first to me. I don’t think you can really translate these changes into dating success or whatnot without other life changes though. They just Lower the difficulty level - you still need to put the work in.

dghughes 8mo ago

That reminds me of when I was undiagnosed with hypothyroidism only in reverse. In my late 20s I made an effort to dress better, no jeans or dirty sneakers, hair cut, gel, gym at least three times a week. Then all that started to slide, brain fog, stay at home, just no energy. It took probably 10 years but finally I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I wonder if a lot of overweight people started out like me but were never diagnosed. At diagnosis I wasn't overweight but I have since gained weight just due to my metabolism now. I was always slim all my life now I'm on the low end of overweight. So yeah weight can be a problem but so can other issues. It's difficult to be yourself when you have hidden weights you don't even realize are dragging you down.