9 ms·
People that have used to be fat, and then lost a lot of weight, will know how brutally different people will treat you. Whereas you'd practically be a ghost bef
by TrackerFF 7mo ago
People that have used to be fat, and then lost a lot of weight, will know how brutally different people will treat you. Whereas you'd practically be a ghost before weight loss, random people will suddenly look you in your eyes, smile, even start conversations with you.
Some will of course argue that you losing weight will also make you more confident, and thus you become more approachable. I think there's a lot of bias against fat people, against "unattractive" people, etc.
This also shows in the classroom, work, etc.
Of course, actually being conventionally attractive will come with its own perks. People will go out of their way to help you, and to support you. Over time this could very well boost your ego to also become more confident and decisive.
- anon84873628 7mo agoOr as 30 Rock put it, attractive people live in the "bubble". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bubble_(30_Rock) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bubble_(30_Rock)
- Revanche1367 7mo agoI feel this as a guy trying to lose weight very seriously this year. On one hand, I can lose weight but I will forever be short unless a miracle occurs lol. I’ve made my peace with being unattractive for the most part, the attempt to lose weight is primarily for health reasons.
- TrackerFF 7mo agoI went from being a scrawny guy in my teens, to a chubby/fat gamer in my late teens/early 20s, and then a fit athlete in my mid 20s. While I had envisioned much more interest from the ladies, my biggest surprise was how much nicer, kinder, and helpful random people were. And in a professional setting, co-workers and leaders just treated you more seriously - especially when it came to handing out leadership roles on projects etc.
- simonask 7mo agoAlso helps to not be a teenager.
- Jensson 7mo agoHe was fat in his 20s and then got fit, not teenager.
- antisthenes 7mo agoI was in the best shape of my life after religiously going to the gym for ~3 years in my late twenties. Outside of a couple of women asking me for help at the grocery store with some heavy produce, it barely made any difference to how people treated me. Being fit is just 1 aspect. These days you also have to look like you're a top 20% in a bunch of other categories as well.
- zer00eyz 7mo ago> I will forever be short I'm 6'4" so not freakishly tall, but tall enough that people notice and for it to be a problem. 1. Im ever ones human ladder. About once a month someone will ask me to get something off a high shelf. 2. Shopping sucks. Wookie sized pants, Wookie sized shoes, Wookie sized shirts. It's a pain in the ass, I dont ever have anything trendy, and I pay more if they have it in my size. 3. Cars: There are some cars I just cant drive. For years I could walk into a Volvo dealer and NO ONE would talk to me. Why? Heigh notches at the doors and they just knew on my way in that I was never going to be able to be comfortable. And sports cars: forget it. In my youth a friend of mine got her father's Porsche: not a fun car to even sit in. 4. Little things, like flying, taking a nap on a couch, or laying in any sort of medical "bed" becomes a comedy sketch. 5. There are just a litany of things that arent fun that one would not think of: from wacking my head on every low hanging thing that jumps in front of me, to being "too big" for a lot of activities that I would otherwise enjoy (smaller sail boats as an example). Would I trade height in for short, and the social stigma it comes with. Nope, you do have it worse in that regard. But the world isnt built for people outside the average...
- jimbokun 7mo agoSorry, but no you’re not getting sympathy for being tall. Nor should you. Life is noticeably easier for tall men, all things considered. Sincerely, Fellow Tall Person
- kjkjadksj 7mo agoShort guys have a vastly easier time getting jacked at least.
- elevatortrim 7mo agoI think being conventionally attractive gives you a lot more chance practice socialising and my observation is that, people who use that chance get so good at it, they remain very good at relationships even at old age.
- butILoveLife 7mo agoIve seen the opposite in some people. I know a ~55ish year old lady who is beautiful, but looks 55. I see her adjusting to her new reality and its painful. I imagine she used to be able to get away with being mean and sarcastic because she was so hot. Now it just causes office fights. "I wont work with X" is something Ive heard. The interesting part is that I originally only worked with her on the phone, so I always thought she was mean... Then I saw her in person and everything clicked.
- watwut 7mo agoProblem with that story is that you "imagine" her to have history to match your ideas about how people behave, but you do not really know her history.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- norome 7mo agoplenty of mean and sarcastic ugly people around too
- newsclues 7mo agoSome ugly people are mean because they are ugly and take their frustrations out on the world. Some pretty people are mean because they can get away with it and never learned that it's often counterproductive in the long term. This is just some people, others act differently.
- bombcar 7mo agoThey often have "other reasons" people put up with it - even just being the office attack dog you sic on annoying customers will make you a valuable team member.
- moralestapia 7mo agoThe difference between female/male is also abysmal.
- CalRobert 7mo agoI lost 100 pounds and as amazing as it was that everyone (not just potential mates but literally EVERYONE, even family) no longer thought I was lazy and was just… nicer to me - was honestly kind of depressing. And I was an active fat person! I often did 50+ mile bike rides when I weighed 280. People aren’t much more sophisticated than our ape brethren at the end of the day. There’s a decent anime exploring this on Netflix right now. “Lookism” https://m.imdb.com/title/tt22297722/ https://m.imdb.com/title/tt22297722/
- Aurornis 7mo ago> Whereas you'd practically be a ghost before weight loss, random people will suddenly look you in your eyes, smile, even start conversations with you. I watched something like this happen in a friend, but as an outside observer I saw a different explanation: The period when he got into shape involved a lot of changes for the better in his life, including becoming more outgoing, motivated, and disciplined (necessary prerequisites for weight loss in the pre-medication era). He also bought a new wardrobe and replaced his old worn out logo T-shirts and cargo shorts with clothes more appropriate for an adult. He also started paying attention to his grooming and hair style instead of looking like he just woke up. For a while he tried to explain it all by his weight loss alone, but over time he realized it was an overall change in everything about the way he carried himself and presented himself to the world. I won’t deny that there is some stigma around being overweight from some people, but I’ve also rarely seen a person change only their weight. Now that GLP-1s are everywhere I do know a few people who slimmed down rapidly without changing anything else and expected things like their dating life to completely change but have been disappointed that little has changed socially for them. They do feel a lot better though!
- ChrisMarshallNY 7mo agoI have a lot of respect for folks that successfully lose a great deal of weight. If I know someone did that, my estimation of them generally goes up, several notches. I'm no stranger to quitting stuff, but significant weight loss is still terrifying to me. I could benefit from losing 20-30 lbs, myself, and it's not been easy. Success has been ... elusive. Maybe it's different, these days, with GLP-1 drugs (I have always called it "Gila Lizard Poison" in my head), but it takes serious discipline and grit to lose the weight, and keep it off. That generally comes from massive personal change; both internal, and external. Quite difficult.
- relaxing 7mo agoI’ve noticed there’s a similar challenge in keeping bad ideas out of your head.
- 7mo ago
- jstanley 7mo agoI noticed the same thing after I started dressing smarter.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- HPsquared 7mo agoI find even something as simple as a haircut can have a massive effect.
- WarmWash 7mo ago>Some will of course argue that you losing weight will also make you more confident Having been one of the people who experienced this (well the inverse, scarily skinny to lean and muscular), the confidence comes entirely from people in your life congratulating you, followed by strangers and new people just having a baseline positive glow towards you. I don't know who came up with that line, it's repeated a lot, but I am almost certain it came from someone who never experienced the transition and soothed their ego by telling themselves it's all just a state of mind.
- helpfulmandrill 7mo agoI used to be fat, currently I'm not. A lot of people who hadn't seen me in a while congratulated me. After that I haven't noticed much difference TBH.
- roelschroeven 7mo agoSame here. Afterwards I got more fat again, and again I don't notice a difference in how people threat me.
- dominotw 7mo agoi think op is a woman.
- xyzelement 7mo agoThis is a benefit. Being healthy and fit is objectively great for you. That your peers subtly nudge you in that direction is great. And in contrast, I feel horrible about "body positivity" - making you feel good about an objective problem that's incapacitating and killing you is a huge problem.
- simonask 7mo agoThe problem with this stance is that the alternative (making people feel bad) will exacerbate the problem by contributing to feelings of hopelessness and ostracism. The first prerequisite for making difficult changes is a supportive environment - not a judgmental one.
- BurningFrog 7mo ago> the alternative (making people feel bad) The actual alternative is to tell the fat people that they really need to fix their serious health problem! Politely watching them die before you is maybe comfortable, but pretty messed up.
- pixelatedindex 7mo agoI’m sure they know, pointing it out doesn’t solve anything. > Politely watching them die before you is maybe comfortable, but pretty messed up. I disagree. It’s their choice, and they should be free to do what they want and not be criticized. In fact it’s not comfortable and sometimes I do want to say something but that’s not very kind.
- BurningFrog 7mo agoEveryone should be free to do what they want. This includes criticizing others!
- pixelatedindex 7mo agoFair argument, but I don’t think criticizing their weight benefits either party. Unless you’re a super close friend and you do it occasionally as a reminder when they are going off the rails. My family constantly says I’m on the bigger side - but does it help? Absolutely not. Does it hurt? A little bit, at least. Then they shame you for “going on a diet”, but also asks why you don’t eat. I don’t need others to pile their opinions on top of it.
- PurpleRamen 7mo ago> Whereas you'd practically be a ghost before weight loss, random people will suddenly look you in your eyes, smile, even start conversations with you. All the slim ghosts might think different here.
- _wrhf 7mo agoHaving been overweight my entire life until recently, this is accurate. The "it's just your newfound confidence" argument misses the mark completely. The baseline level of basic respect you receive from strangers such as simply making eye contact, holding doors, or initiating small talk changes almost overnight. It is a very bitter reality to wake up to when you realize you were basically invisible before.
- anal_reactor 7mo agoI dress like a hobo so that everyone fucks off and nobody wants anything from me. Sometimes I go somewhere and people walk away, giving me personal space. It's amazing.
- bombcar 7mo agoAre you sure it's not your username? ;)
- datsci_est_2015 7mo agoHeight as a man is also a huge bonus, at least in the cultures to which I’ve been exposed. There are examples I can think of men not being conventionally attractive, but just in the top quintile of height, and receiving special attention in dating and leadership opportunities.
- MyHonestOpinon 7mo agoI remember reading some study that (in men) height compared to your peers at 16-19 highly correlates with confidence.
- nsxwolf 7mo agoWomen maybe? I have lost weight and remained completely invisible to the world.
- 4gotunameagain 7mo agoIt is the same with being accompanied by a very beautiful woman. Without changing at all, the difference of how people treat you when you are accompanied by a very beautiful woman is staggering. People are more nice and polite even dare I say subservient. People low key treat you like you are some sort of important person. Beauty, and proximity to it, was is and will be a social status symbol. My pet theory is that it is a term in the objective function to limit the mutation rate; hence the theories that claim that beautiful faces are the "averaged" faces of a race/ethnic group
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoAmong all the other reasons that people have explained that this isn’t exactly correct a probably isn’t entirely attributed to just weight… I’ll make an opposite proposition. Perhaps we are evolutionarily programmed to avoid people with impulse control issues?
- untrust 7mo agoI think there might be something here. I believe people flock to bigger, stronger and healthier people as some sort of evolutionary strategy for survival. If we were in a crisis and had to revert to tribes requiring everyone to pitch in to save humanity would you rather have the person who can resist impulses and keep a strict schedule (fit/healthy) or the person who looks like they lay around eating everything in sight. Using looks alone someone may assume the more healthy and fit person would be better to keep in their circle and thus prioritize being in their good graces. I understand that it's not that simple, and someone's physical ability has nothing to do with intelligence in the real world. Unfortunately we're all subject to making split second judgements when interacting with strangers and as a result people don't think deeply about how that impacts those they deal with (or don't care).
- fwip 7mo agoNope, it's cultural. If you look at cultures outside of your narrow window (in both time and space), you'll find that the perception of fatness has varied wildly over the millenia.
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo agoOver history being fat wasn’t an impulse control issue. It is now. If we are wired to detect something doesn’t mean it has to be a first order attribute. Isn’t fat now versus fat then. Gambling, addiction, setting fires, fighting, chronic lying, etc… some of those are first ordered detectable and some maybe aren’t.
- Jensson 7mo agoIf it just was cultural then women wouldn't have evolved abnormally thin waists, they have that since men finds it attractive, there is no other reason to have as thin waists as women has otherwise. Women in every single culture have much thinner waist hip ratios than the male counterparts, suggesting that men like them thin.
- dominotw 7mo ago> random people will suddenly look you in your eyes, smile, even start conversations with you. i am not fat, infact very fit, athlectic and in shape. This never happens to me. maybe if you are a woman, this happens.
- yieldcrv 7mo agoAlot of discussions from trans people have been very validating of gendered experiences as they get to objectively experience both and see the difference
- willy_k 7mo agoDo you believe that they get an unadulterated perspective of both experiences? That they would be getting the experience of a woman rather than that of a trans woman?
- CalRobert 7mo agoApparently some make a distinction regarding whether they pass or not to address this. James Barnes is one person whose written about this https://www.newsweek.com/trans-man-broken-men-1817169 https://www.newsweek.com/trans-man-broken-men-1817169
- willy_k 7mo agoThank you for sharing that, that was a valuable read.
- jimbokun 7mo agoThat’s a great article but it confuses me how the author shows affinity for so many feminine traits and stereotypically feminine interests, that I wonder what the draw or perceived appeal of living as a man was. Maybe that’s in a different article.
- CalRobert 7mo agoWell, I imagine gender dysphoria is more than thinking the grass is greener
- yieldcrv 7mo ago> I feel safer; I no longer walk around at night clinging to pepper spray some people report not being talked over in office settings honestly you could benefit from talking to someone professionally if this is still confusing to you by now. Its not uncommon for this to be confusing, you could just accelerate your understanding by having someone deconstruct why it is still confusing for you
- LightBug1 7mo agoOn the flip side, there's nothing more valuable than being able to walk around as a "fat" and/or "unattractive" person to really hone your filter ... Once things have "improved", the filter remains and I'd argue those solid friends/colleagues/etc are proven gold. In my books, there's nothing worse than being rich, beautiful, attractive off the bat as you might never know if those close to you are hangers on or the real deal. Lots of ""'s here to be respectful that my opinions on the matter may differ from others.
- maxglute 7mo agostep 1 be attractive step 2 don't be unattractive
- SilverElfin 7mo agoRace and gender also make a difference. People don’t want to say it. But back when dating apps put out more stats I remember this was well known.
- etempleton 7mo agoWhen I was on antidepressants I noticed people were much more likely to approach me and start up a conversation. I think so might have been more at ease a confident an also more likely to smile and make eye contact with strangers myself. So I think self confidence and general openness play a big part too.
- BurningFrog 7mo agoThis is a basic fact of "the human condition" that everyone needs to understand, and accept. Evolution made us this way for survival reasons, and it's mostly pushing us towards being healthy. And whatever your opinion, it will not change.
- libraryatnight 7mo agoI've experienced this personally while losing weight. Some people will argue for the confidence thing, and it's a factor I'm sure, but there's a palpable difference in treatment. Also the trauma/trust issues that come from being seen as 'less than' don't resolve over night, and it takes some time of that palpable change to help build the confidence.
- kgwxd 7mo agoInteracting with anyone is a risk. They might take any form of attention to a level that forces you to set a boundary, or uncomfortably accepting the boundary already being crossed, turning a positive intent into a a net-negative interaction. If you're attracted to someone, there are a lot less boundaries. If you find someone unattractive, a lot of other people probably do to, increasing the risk they're attention starved, and more likely to make it awkward. Most people feel that risk, regardless of their own attractiveness. "Confidence" can help signal they're less likely to make it weird, but it's certainly no guarantee.
- okr 7mo agoOr women vs. men, same.
- hristov 7mo agoThat is probably true. I remember I felt really bad when my high school teachers were openly flirting with students during class. But there is another side to the coin. If you are attractive, a lot of the nastier people out there will try to manipulate you and gaslight you just to be closer to you all the time. Some people will be cruel and nasty to you just because they know you will sexually reject them. Some teachers will be mean or passive aggressive towards you because they are attracted to you and they know they can never be with you. It is actually very dangerous to be attractive but not to have the social skills to handle the way people react to it. Many attractive people grow up with these social skills because they grown up as attractive children and they get used to it, but for some people that suddenly become attractive because they lose weight or another reason it can be very challenging. Similarly for people that are just born introverts and don't have the social skills.
- lynx97 7mo agoYou obviously have never had to deal with a disability. I would swap with a fat person every day. Reading your "complaint" makes me seriously sad, because what you perceive as a problem is just the tip of the iceberg. Its like someone complaining about the lack of icecream while others are being beaten up in brought daylight.
- fwip 7mo agoThere's always somebody who has it worse. That doesn't mean their troubles don't matter.
- kjkjadksj 7mo agoI wonder how often it is unintentional or somewhat polite. As a kid I got into this habit of not really looking at obese or disabled people because I didn’t want to seem like I was staring at them like some of my slackjawed peers might. I think to an extent this bleeds over into adult life. Obese or disabled people might think it is malicious but the behavior might really come from good intentions at least to some degree. A boring dystopia sort of situation IMO.
- jibal 7mo agoAlso true of people who used to be young and then became old. And trans people also have a lot to say about this.
- someguynamedq 7mo agoThe thing that interests me is how eager people are to find rationalizations explaining how this effect doesn't exist
- arw0n 7mo ago> People will go out of their way to help you, and to support you. Over time this could very well boost your ego to also become more confident and decisive. This was my first thought about why the move to online works for men but not women. When I was attractive, people intuitively thought I was competent as well. I could speak with authority on topics not knowing more than the average and people would believe me. Fo women this might sometimes even be the other way around - more beauty is associated with less intelligence.
- pojzon 7mo agoBased on how we evolved attractiveness is still one of if not the most important traits you can have in life. Its sad, but it is what it is. And why its sad? Because this uneven treatment is sometimes cause of big evil in the world.
- rhubarbtree 7mo agoI don’t know how widely this observation has been made, but relatedly it is very hard to be a very attractive person. I’m very much glad to be average. I’ve known a few very attractive people close up, and their lives are difficult. One example: you are presented with so many partners it can be very difficult to choose, and hard to discern who actually likes you as a person vs is just attracted to you. How can you pick a partner who is going to be a good match and faithful? And when you’re in a relationship, it’s harder to stay faithful when other people are throwing themselves at you and you suffer FOMO. I could go on, but you get my point.