4 ms·

What about Macs, you use those?

by chistev 7mo ago

applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
I have never tried one, I'm not interested in Apple's walled garden approach. Buying a Macbook and being unable to put a (properly working) alternative OS on it if I don't like the one on it is a non-starter to me.
- drzaiusx11 7mo ago
  Asahi Linux is definitely a "properly working" Linux distro at this point. MacBook hardware tends to be better than almost all the alternatives I've tried.
  - Rohansi 7mo ago
    Only works on three generations old SoCs and doesn't support external displays still. The hardware is great and it's impressive Asahi Linux works at all but it's not for everyone.
    - drzaiusx11 7mo ago
      Agreed that lack of m4+ support is unfortunate but it'll get there. However, m2 MacBook still outperforms any other kit I have (dell developer edition shipping with Linux etc.) Also external displays work today as long as you use a USBC display port cable, the other USBC video standards are supposedly in the works but display port dongles aren't exactly hard to find.
      - drzaiusx11 7mo ago
        Also preliminary m3 support just landed upstream in Linux this past week
      - Rohansi 7mo ago
        > Agreed that lack of m4+ support is unfortunate but it'll get there. The question is when? How many generations behind will they be then? Will they have to skip support for some generations to keep up? > m2 MacBook still outperforms any other kit I have That's fair but you should consider what happens when Apple decides to lock down the boot process on newer hardware. I'm sure most people would give in and use macOS instead of going back to worse hardware. If you don't see that happening just remember that all of Apple's other devices have a locked down boot process. They possibly only allowed it on Mac hardware to ease possible concerns people may have had during the Apple Silicon transition. Apple does not provide documentation for the hardware so Linux support is based on reverse engineering. If third-party operating systems do not support any of the recent hardware what is stopping Apple from cutting that unused feature from new hardware? > preliminary m3 support just landed upstream in Linux this past week Still way too early to actually use. GPU support is not there yet.
        drzaiusx11 7mo ago
        In all honesty, two generations behind is likely the best we'll ever get given the resource constraints on current porting efforts. I'm totally fine with that though. Buying prior gen laptops has been what I've always done since I was a kid, and I'm pushing 50 now. Buying current gen anything is a trap unless you absolutely need the fire power (and I certainly don't.) Naturally, a hardware vendor can lock down whatever they want in their future hardware, that's their call, but specifically Apple hasn't. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but in either case there are still millions of m1, m2 and m3 mackbooks already out there, why _not_ use them? If/when Apple chooses to lock down future 3p boot options, it won't affect that pre-existing pool of hardware. Sure, eventually that pool of will dry up, or maybe in a decade I'll need something faster than an m3 (assuming it takes less than a decade to get m3 to where m2 is at today, which is fairly conservative), but maybe not. My requirements are fairly modest with the personal dev work I do, I'm sure plenty of folks are in the same boat. We might as well use what decent hardware already exists and is available now. If appearing to support Apple is the problem just cover your kit in silly stickers, that's what I do. After all, it's not like Apple will make a dime off me buying their shit second-hand anyways...
- nout 7mo ago
  You can put linux on the older Macs. I have 2015 Macbook with Debian and everything works very smoothly.
baq 7mo ago
macs are amazing, you can close the lid on a macbook and the computer will be mostly asleep and won't burn down the house; and the best part is it'll work when you open it again. amazing tech. macOS though, that's getting worse each year.
- GTP 7mo ago
  I have the exact same lid behavior on my HP laptop running Arch Linux.
  - baq 7mo ago
    Trust me I’d happily take a similarly specced Linux-compatible laptop over this company-mandated MacBook, alas.
- seanmcdirmid 7mo ago
  You do know the reason the Mac goes to sleep when you close the lid is because of the OS right?
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    It doesn’t matter why it works to anyone but geeks

What about Macs, you use those?

by chistev 7mo ago

What about Macs, you use those?

I have never tried one, I'm not interested in Apple's walled garden approach. Buying a Macbook and being unable to put a (properly working) alternative OS on it if I don't like the one on it is a non-starter to me.

drzaiusx11 7mo ago
Asahi Linux is definitely a "properly working" Linux distro at this point. MacBook hardware tends to be better than almost all the alternatives I've tried.
- Rohansi 7mo ago
  Only works on three generations old SoCs and doesn't support external displays still. The hardware is great and it's impressive Asahi Linux works at all but it's not for everyone.
  - drzaiusx11 7mo ago
    Agreed that lack of m4+ support is unfortunate but it'll get there. However, m2 MacBook still outperforms any other kit I have (dell developer edition shipping with Linux etc.) Also external displays work today as long as you use a USBC display port cable, the other USBC video standards are supposedly in the works but display port dongles aren't exactly hard to find.
    - drzaiusx11 7mo ago
      Also preliminary m3 support just landed upstream in Linux this past week
    - Rohansi 7mo ago
      > Agreed that lack of m4+ support is unfortunate but it'll get there. The question is when? How many generations behind will they be then? Will they have to skip support for some generations to keep up? > m2 MacBook still outperforms any other kit I have That's fair but you should consider what happens when Apple decides to lock down the boot process on newer hardware. I'm sure most people would give in and use macOS instead of going back to worse hardware. If you don't see that happening just remember that all of Apple's other devices have a locked down boot process. They possibly only allowed it on Mac hardware to ease possible concerns people may have had during the Apple Silicon transition. Apple does not provide documentation for the hardware so Linux support is based on reverse engineering. If third-party operating systems do not support any of the recent hardware what is stopping Apple from cutting that unused feature from new hardware? > preliminary m3 support just landed upstream in Linux this past week Still way too early to actually use. GPU support is not there yet.
      - drzaiusx11 7mo ago
        In all honesty, two generations behind is likely the best we'll ever get given the resource constraints on current porting efforts. I'm totally fine with that though. Buying prior gen laptops has been what I've always done since I was a kid, and I'm pushing 50 now. Buying current gen anything is a trap unless you absolutely need the fire power (and I certainly don't.) Naturally, a hardware vendor can lock down whatever they want in their future hardware, that's their call, but specifically Apple hasn't. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but in either case there are still millions of m1, m2 and m3 mackbooks already out there, why _not_ use them? If/when Apple chooses to lock down future 3p boot options, it won't affect that pre-existing pool of hardware. Sure, eventually that pool of will dry up, or maybe in a decade I'll need something faster than an m3 (assuming it takes less than a decade to get m3 to where m2 is at today, which is fairly conservative), but maybe not. My requirements are fairly modest with the personal dev work I do, I'm sure plenty of folks are in the same boat. We might as well use what decent hardware already exists and is available now. If appearing to support Apple is the problem just cover your kit in silly stickers, that's what I do. After all, it's not like Apple will make a dime off me buying their shit second-hand anyways...
nout 7mo ago
You can put linux on the older Macs. I have 2015 Macbook with Debian and everything works very smoothly.

baq 7mo ago

macs are amazing, you can close the lid on a macbook and the computer will be mostly asleep and won't burn down the house; and the best part is it'll work when you open it again. amazing tech. macOS though, that's getting worse each year.

GTP 7mo ago
I have the exact same lid behavior on my HP laptop running Arch Linux.
- baq 7mo ago
  Trust me I’d happily take a similarly specced Linux-compatible laptop over this company-mandated MacBook, alas.
seanmcdirmid 7mo ago
You do know the reason the Mac goes to sleep when you close the lid is because of the OS right?
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  It doesn’t matter why it works to anyone but geeks