6 ms·

so Apple then? They require you to pay the $99 yearly fee to sideload for more than 7 days

by tom1337 7mo ago

rezonant 7mo ago
Which increases the limit to whatever time is left on your current payment period. After which the app will stop working and need to be reinstalled by an authenticated developer who has a current Apple Developer Subscription. EDIT: Edited the above which previously said 90 days incorrectly. Not sure where my brain pulled that from but I posted the correct details here prior: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743615 Notably if you install a month before your subscription expires you need to reinstall the app in 1 month.
- tom1337 7mo ago
  > Which increases the limit to 90 days It increases to 365 days, no? At least thats the longest I can sign my app and I use a personal but paid Apple Developer Account
  - rezonant 7mo ago
    Oops yes you're correct. Edited post and put a note about the correction and a link to my previous post describing the correct details. But it's only 365 days if you install the app on day 1 of your $99 subscription period.
GeekyBear 7mo ago
Apple was clear that they were offering the safety of a walled garden from the start. Apple didn't lie about supporting a user's freedom to run anything they like, only to execute a rug pull after they successfully drove the other open options out of the marketplace.
- supern0va 7mo ago
  If Google actually takes away the ability to run unsigned code, my next phone will be an iPhone. And I rarely even run unsigned code. Honestly, it might finally result in me fully exiting the Google ecosystem.
  - state_less 7mo ago
    Buy a cheap unlocked smartphone and run GrapheneOS[0]. I want my smartphone to be like my linux computers where I run them for as long as the hardware works and is still relevant. My iPhone 12 is getting close to its end of life support, yet it is still working well. We should expect better from trillion dollar companies. So I'm not supporting them with dollars wherever I can afford not to. That and I think it's more enjoyable to run something off the beaten path. I like to explore the space a little. I swapped out my MBP for an Asus Pro Art running linux last year and that's been working out pretty well. Hopefully my cheap motorola phone will be supported by GrapheneOS soon and that will work out too. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47241551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47241551
    - drnick1 7mo ago
      > Buy a cheap unlocked smartphone and run GrapheneOS Note that this needs to be a Pixel at the moment.
      - duskdozer 7mo ago
        It doesn't have to be Graphene; LineageOS works on a lot more devices
    - ysnp 7mo ago
      GrapheneOS will support future Morotola phones that meet a subset of their requirements, rather than existing phones. Less likely to be budget lines for now.
    - youainti 7mo ago
      The cheap Motorola phones won't support GrapheneOS because they are missing some of the security features that GrapheneOS requires. The Motorola partnership is for some new phones: hopefully at a lower price bracket, but likely to be flagships or 2nd tier.
- TheDong 7mo ago
  > Apple didn't lie about supporting a user's freedom to run anything they like, only to execute a rug pull after they successfully drove the other open options out of the marketplace. They did execute a rugpull, and they aren't offering safety anymore. The rug pull is ads in the app store. If I go to the app store now and search for my bank's name, the first result is a different bank. If I search for 'anki', the first 3 results are spam ad-ware tracking-cookie trash. If I search "password store" I get 4 results before the "password store" app. I had a family member try to install one of the google-docs suite of apps, and the first result was some spamware that opened a full-screen ad, which on click resulted in a phishing site. My family can't safely use the app store anymore because they click the first result, and the first result for most searches is now adware infested crap because of apple's "sponsored results". What's the point of charging huge overhead on the hardware, and then an astounding 30% tax, and also a $100/year developer fee, if you then double-dip and screw over the users who want your app by selling user's clicks to the highest bidder?
  - still_grokking 7mo ago
    Don't forget that Apple is spying on their users even more then Google does (which is gross in its own). Apple controls much more user data then Google does. At the same time Apple keeps telling their users some fairy-tales about "privacy". No, Apple isn't honest. Definitely not.
    - Summershard 7mo ago
      Sources needed.
    - jandrese 7mo ago
      The question is how much of that data do they sell to data brokers.
      - mrguyorama 7mo ago
        Google also "Doesn't sell your data to data brokers" Because they sell "insights" or "access" or "marketing" or whatever.
- AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
  > Apple was clear that they were offering the safety of a walled garden from the start. This is a red herring. Is Google a hypocrite for lying about it first? Sure. But suppose Android dies and gets replaced by something that never claimed to be open. Or gets replaced by nothing so there is only iOS. Is that fine then? Of course not, because the problem is the lack of alternatives, and having your choice glued to an entire ecosystem full of other choices so that everything is all or nothing and the choices you would make the other way are coerced by them all being tied together into something with a network effect.
- alextingle 7mo ago
  No. Apple's phones started out with only web apps. They only add the walled garden later.
- butILoveLife 7mo ago
  hahahahaha 'walled garden' repeating marketing speak. Apple got you. Walled Prison. Look at all those people suffering with iMessage trying to use openclaw.
  - tosti 7mo ago
    It's a garden right up until the point you try to leave. Then it's a jail you're trying to break out of. Most sories with this plot, the prisoner gets free and gets to see the garden for what it really is. Famous example: The Matrix
noname120 7mo ago
You can refresh them. SideStore[1] does that automatically out of the box (no computer needed) but there are Shortcuts to do that too. [1] https://docs.sidestore.io/docs/faq#what-is-sidestore https://docs.sidestore.io/docs/faq#what-is-sidestore

so Apple then? They require you to pay the $99 yearly fee to sideload for more than 7 days

by tom1337 7mo ago

so Apple then? They require you to pay the $99 yearly fee to sideload for more than 7 days

Which increases the limit to whatever time is left on your current payment period. After which the app will stop working and need to be reinstalled by an authenticated developer who has a current Apple Developer Subscription. EDIT: Edited the above which previously said 90 days incorrectly. Not sure where my brain pulled that from but I posted the correct details here prior: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743615 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45743615 Notably if you install a month before your subscription expires you need to reinstall the app in 1 month.

tom1337 7mo ago
> Which increases the limit to 90 days It increases to 365 days, no? At least thats the longest I can sign my app and I use a personal but paid Apple Developer Account
- rezonant 7mo ago
  Oops yes you're correct. Edited post and put a note about the correction and a link to my previous post describing the correct details. But it's only 365 days if you install the app on day 1 of your $99 subscription period.

GeekyBear 7mo ago

Apple was clear that they were offering the safety of a walled garden from the start. Apple didn't lie about supporting a user's freedom to run anything they like, only to execute a rug pull after they successfully drove the other open options out of the marketplace.

supern0va 7mo ago
If Google actually takes away the ability to run unsigned code, my next phone will be an iPhone. And I rarely even run unsigned code. Honestly, it might finally result in me fully exiting the Google ecosystem.
- state_less 7mo ago
  Buy a cheap unlocked smartphone and run GrapheneOS[0]. I want my smartphone to be like my linux computers where I run them for as long as the hardware works and is still relevant. My iPhone 12 is getting close to its end of life support, yet it is still working well. We should expect better from trillion dollar companies. So I'm not supporting them with dollars wherever I can afford not to. That and I think it's more enjoyable to run something off the beaten path. I like to explore the space a little. I swapped out my MBP for an Asus Pro Art running linux last year and that's been working out pretty well. Hopefully my cheap motorola phone will be supported by GrapheneOS soon and that will work out too. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47241551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47241551
  - drnick1 7mo ago
    > Buy a cheap unlocked smartphone and run GrapheneOS Note that this needs to be a Pixel at the moment.
    - duskdozer 7mo ago
      It doesn't have to be Graphene; LineageOS works on a lot more devices
  - ysnp 7mo ago
    GrapheneOS will support future Morotola phones that meet a subset of their requirements, rather than existing phones. Less likely to be budget lines for now.
  - youainti 7mo ago
    The cheap Motorola phones won't support GrapheneOS because they are missing some of the security features that GrapheneOS requires. The Motorola partnership is for some new phones: hopefully at a lower price bracket, but likely to be flagships or 2nd tier.
TheDong 7mo ago
> Apple didn't lie about supporting a user's freedom to run anything they like, only to execute a rug pull after they successfully drove the other open options out of the marketplace. They did execute a rugpull, and they aren't offering safety anymore. The rug pull is ads in the app store. If I go to the app store now and search for my bank's name, the first result is a different bank. If I search for 'anki', the first 3 results are spam ad-ware tracking-cookie trash. If I search "password store" I get 4 results before the "password store" app. I had a family member try to install one of the google-docs suite of apps, and the first result was some spamware that opened a full-screen ad, which on click resulted in a phishing site. My family can't safely use the app store anymore because they click the first result, and the first result for most searches is now adware infested crap because of apple's "sponsored results". What's the point of charging huge overhead on the hardware, and then an astounding 30% tax, and also a $100/year developer fee, if you then double-dip and screw over the users who want your app by selling user's clicks to the highest bidder?
- still_grokking 7mo ago
  Don't forget that Apple is spying on their users even more then Google does (which is gross in its own). Apple controls much more user data then Google does. At the same time Apple keeps telling their users some fairy-tales about "privacy". No, Apple isn't honest. Definitely not.
  - Summershard 7mo ago
    Sources needed.
  - jandrese 7mo ago
    The question is how much of that data do they sell to data brokers.
    - mrguyorama 7mo ago
      Google also "Doesn't sell your data to data brokers" Because they sell "insights" or "access" or "marketing" or whatever.
AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
> Apple was clear that they were offering the safety of a walled garden from the start. This is a red herring. Is Google a hypocrite for lying about it first? Sure. But suppose Android dies and gets replaced by something that never claimed to be open. Or gets replaced by nothing so there is only iOS. Is that fine then? Of course not, because the problem is the lack of alternatives, and having your choice glued to an entire ecosystem full of other choices so that everything is all or nothing and the choices you would make the other way are coerced by them all being tied together into something with a network effect.
alextingle 7mo ago
No. Apple's phones started out with only web apps. They only add the walled garden later.
butILoveLife 7mo ago
hahahahaha 'walled garden' repeating marketing speak. Apple got you. Walled Prison. Look at all those people suffering with iMessage trying to use openclaw.
- tosti 7mo ago
  It's a garden right up until the point you try to leave. Then it's a jail you're trying to break out of. Most sories with this plot, the prisoner gets free and gets to see the garden for what it really is. Famous example: The Matrix

noname120 7mo ago

You can refresh them. SideStore[1] does that automatically out of the box (no computer needed) but there are Shortcuts to do that too. [1] https://docs.sidestore.io/docs/faq#what-is-sidestore https://docs.sidestore.io/docs/faq#what-is-sidestore