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How Invisalign became the biggest user of 3D printers
https://web.archive.org/web/20260321191823/https://www.wired.com/story/how-invisalign-became-the-worlds-biggest-3d-printing-company/ https://web.archive.org/web/20260321191823/https://www.wired...
https://archive.ph/zOAn7 https://archive.ph/zOAn7
- hattmall 7mo agoSo shouldn't this really be something that could be opened sourced. I think I've seen a few write ups of people that did their own, but seems like a highly functional implementation could be democratized.
- Legend2440 7mo agoCertainly it's not impossible to DIY, but it's more difficult than just popping some aligners on your 3d printer. Manufacturing them requires a resin printer and a vacuforming setup, but that's still the easy part. It's a whole system with a dental 3D scanner, software for rearranging your mouth, and attachment points that have to be epoxied onto (and later removed from) your teeth by a dentist.
- lovich 7mo agoThey have to have at least 2 different materials as well. The temporary trays were much softer and I had almost ground through them in my sleep by the time I had to switch to the next one but the final set is much more robust.
- IshKebab 7mo agoYeah it's also not unreasonably expensive. At least when I had them it was only a few thousand pounds. I think they do offers regularly.
- adwi 7mo agohttps://amosdudley.com/weblog/Ortho https://amosdudley.com/weblog/Ortho
- hattmall 7mo agoThank you, and that was 10 years ago!
- afavour 7mo agoI did Invisalign a few years ago. Manufacturing the retainers is surely only a small part of the puzzle. They used a specialized sort of 3D camera on a stick to get an incredibly accurate model of my mouth, any open source solution would need an equivalent. And you’d also need open source code from somewhere to work out which teeth need to move where and at what stage in the treatment.
- maccard 7mo agoThat’s pretty wild. I got a mould taken with some sort of a putty .
- doubled112 7mo agoI wear a night guard and have had them made both ways. The 3D camera was really neat. A little faster, and I didn’t once dry heave. I could watch the software and a 3D model slowly form of my mouth. Looked surprisingly user friendly. Missed areas were highlighted, for example.
- toast0 7mo ago> A little faster, and I didn’t once dry heave. Dry heaving would have been great. I would regularly vomit from impressions. My orthodontist would just prepare two sets if impression trays, cause the first one was going to go in the medical waste bin. Impressions for invisilign (when I did it, about a million years ago) weren't so bad though. Unfortunately invisilign resulted in an open bite for my molars, which I really should go back to an orthodontist to address, but I'd rather not.
- joe_mamba 7mo ago>They used a specialized sort of 3D camera on a stick to get an incredibly accurate model of my mouth AFAIK Align's 3D scanning system is more or less branched from the same Israeli tech that went into the Xbox 360 kinect camera and the iPhone face-ID.
- 7mo ago
- ivan_gammel 7mo agoIt is definitely not that simple for a number of reasons. Yes, aligners and retainers in theory may be printed on some commercially available hardware. At your own risk, because you will be printing a medical device and you will need: 1. A treatment plan: simulated movement of teeth at every step, taking into account all forces. That’s specialized software or external lab service. 2. Precision. You put too much pressure at the wrong angle and you will need a surgery to fix the damage, because the tooth root moved in wrong direction. 3. Plastic. You cannot use ordinary 3D printer ink. You need a plastic that can survive the chemical environment in your mouth, maintain the pressure, and you probably want it to look good (no discoloration etc). 4. Finish: Align Tech, Straumann etc do not stop after 3D printing, there are few other steps involved to make sure there’s no sharp edges etc. 5. Maybe you will need attachments (to focus pressure in the right direction on certain teeth) or wires. Align Tech is Apple of clear aligners, but now competition exists, producing aligners at scale is commercially more efficient, considering all the risks and required qualifications, and of course the best materials for aligners are patented and not sold OTC to everyone. Disclosure: I worked at Align 10 years ago and later was CTO of European DTC competitor.
- nullable_bool 7mo agoPer point #3, aren't the liners thermo formed around at 3d printed model of your teeth?
- ivan_gammel 7mo agoIIRC, yes. It’s been some time ago, I don’t know how manufacturing looks now. It’s different process compared to 3D printing at home. It doesn’t mean it should be different, it just has to maintain certain properties. I’m not chemical or bioengineer to go into detail of it :)
- natpalmer1776 7mo agoHow many of these risks and problems are exaggerated in scope and potential due to both a desire for a regulatory moat and a general fear of litigation in the medical space? That is to say, how good is “good enough” when done at small-scale in developing nations or medically underserved communities?
- adrr 7mo agoNeed expensive printers and you need CAD software that can correctly move the teeth. Also not all it can be done by software, sometimes you need to blank out certain teeth that dentist will make the call.
- kube-system 7mo agoOrthodontics is simply “making a retainer” the same way orthopedics is simply “putting screws in a leg”. The difficult part is not the manufacturing, but knowing how to do it properly so you don’t harm the patient.
- joe_mamba 7mo ago>The difficult part is not the manufacturing, but knowing how to do it properly so you don’t harm the patient. And yet I read plenty of horror stories of bad orthodontic results. Ask me how I know. Went to 3 different orthodontist to fix what a bad orthodontist did to me when I was a kid, and each gave me a completely different treatment plan. I feel like being an orthodontist is just eyeballing and patching your way as you go to an acceptable resolution.
- jmalicki 7mo agoGiven that, shouldn't you be even more concerned about people YOLOing it, if even highly trained orthodontists are regularly screwing this up?
- joe_mamba 7mo agoAbsolutely. I'm sure some high-IQ high-functioning autists like John Carmack or Palmer Luckey could fix their teeth at home with some alligners they 3d printed in their garage better than a sloppy orthodontist, but that obviously doesn't scale to gen-pop.
- jmalicki 7mo agoIt's not even just 3d printing skill, but understanding the physiology of how the bone and teeth will restructure themselves over time to know the right amount of pressure to apply to encourage that remodeling, without so much pressure to cause damage - there is a huge amount of scientific research there! (That I'm sure some orthodontists probably pay more detailed attention to than others). I don't doubt a high-IQ high functioning autist could self-teach this, but there's a ton of background there.
- plomme 7mo agoA point I didn’t see sibling comments make is that the dentist often has to file between teeth for them to sit and align correctly. They did so several times in my case. I would not want to do that to myself!
- sithadmin 7mo agoIt’s been tried, with some success. Pretty sure I’ve seen a post here on HN from someone that DIy’d it end to end. But it’s also something that’s not responsible to shortcut. Shifting teeth around too fast can result in permanent root damage and even loss of teeth. There was a whole cottage industry in the US for a while focused on under cutting Invisalign with a reverse-engineered product, but they often moved on accelerated treatment timelines that caused a not-insignificant amount of harm to patients, and cut corners on intake (DIY at home mold kits) that also contributed to problems. Pretty sure all of the companies doing this are basically dead now.
- meroes 7mo agoAlso no one has mentioned many mouths needed some teeth shaving to re-align. You are NOT doing that at home. Also who’s attaching the attachments (I had 13 at first) to the teeth to help the aligners grab hold?
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- infinitewars 7mo agoMost teeth align themselves as kids age. This is almost never necessary.
- imperialdrive 7mo agoThere are folks working on solutions for when teeth do not align themselves.
- porridgeraisin 7mo agoDepends on diet. If you keep them on soft food young, the jaw muscles don't get stimulated enough to grow so that the teeth that are coming out sit properly. Misalignment and opportunity for decay ensues. If you give them decently hard food early on in life you solve most problems. After that it can still happen but there's less chance.
- CaliforniaKarl 7mo agoHow early on in life?
- orthoxerox 7mo agoWhen they grow molars to chew with. Give them whole carrots to snack on.
- jaggederest 7mo agoTo expand and agree: turnips, beets, hard whole grains, if their baby teeth aren't visibly worn by the time they fall out, it wasn't hard enough. Jaw and face bone grows by stimulation. It's not just a dental thing - it's sleep apnea, sinus infections, facial structure, voice timbre, and attractiveness. If it's enough, they won't even need their wisdom teeth pulled - having your wisdom teeth pulled is substantially a standard american diet issue, not a human genetic issue.
- 7mo ago
- tombert 7mo agoTangential, but I have sleep apnea. Fortunately I have it mild enough to get away with a mouthpiece instead of a CPAP (which is good anyway because I also have bruxism). The mouthpiece works great and I would recommend everyone get tested for sleep apnea if your insurance covers it, but I have to admit that paying for it bothered me. Even with insurance covering some of it, it cost me about $600. I know that there's a deceptively high amount of engineering required for these kinds of things, but it was very hard to wrap my head around paying $600 for what amounted to a couple pieces of clear plastic. I actually got them to send me the STL of the scan of my teeth, and some back of napkin math indicated that it would have cost me about fifteen cents of resin to print it out myself. Instead I'm paying about 4000x that price. Obviously this is not apples to apples, I'm sure they're using different and/or better resin that what I have, and as I said there's probably engineering and fine-tuning for this, but even still it was not fun to pay for. All the same, I sleep like 10x better, so I suppose that considering that $600 is a cheap price to pay.
- chrony3705 7mo ago> All the same, I sleep like 10x better, so I suppose that considering that $600 is a cheap price to pay. First time? Price is not determined by cost to produce. It’s determined by the price a customer is willing to pay.
- moffkalast 7mo agoAnd the material cost also isn't the main thing you're paying for, it's time and expertise involved in scanning and designing it.
- tombert 7mo agoI suspect the introduction of the infinite-money pits of insurance doesn't help either. Since I do have the 3D scan of my teeth, I've debated designing my own, but I'm not sure which resins to buy that I could safely put in my mouth every night.
- jopsen 7mo ago
- itsdesmond 7mo agoI don’t like this interviewer’s tone, at all. It was like… confrontational but in a teenage way.
- b3ing 7mo agoThere’s a dental procedure in Latin America that is cheaper but only a few places in the US do it.
- b3ing 7mo agoIt’s called - C5 Hidden Orthodontics, not sure why I was downvoted
- LurkandComment 7mo ago1) Currently on invisign - mould 24 of 42 2) For 5k (Cdn) - I get 42 moulds, a method used to scan and submit my progress for each mould duration, feedback and advice from a dentist, a scan test to see who they fit 3) Considering the cost of braces and the flexibility these allow (as long as you are disciplined in wearing them) it's well worth it 4) My teeth were really misaligned. At 42 I just decided to do it so I could smile more in pics. Not confidence issue, just sometimes in life you have to do things for yourself 5) You can see the 3d printing lines and its pretty detailed given how lightweight and accurate the shape is for each tooth 6) There are little mounts they install on your teeth for the moulds to latch on to as well, so its not just a fit on the teeth but the mounts as well 7) Each individual mould has a unique number on the package in comes in as well as on the mould. Each package has my name, the dentist and the mould number out of 42. 8) I could see changes starting with mould 6 9) If look even close to mould 42, I will be extactic 10) it also comes with an attachment for your phone that alows you to submit self exams each mould. Its really cool. its very impressive
- Oarch 7mo agoBest of luck! I completed mine 2 years ago and have to say it was 100% worth the patience.
- Insanity 7mo agoMy SO is now using it. I’m waiting for her impressions to decide if I want to do so. The dentist told me I’d only need it for like 3-4 months, minor corrections. But it seems like such a hassle. Always having to remove it before eating anywhere, no coffee, and gotta make sure I’d always travel with the next set of aligners etc. Glad it worked well for you though!
- smallnix 7mo agoHe does have a German wikipedia page
- bookofjoe 7mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47441521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47441521
- gnabgib 7mo agoYours was already a dupe, why comment? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47411658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47411658
- bookofjoe 7mo agoBecause I didn't realize it! I SO wish HN would tell me things I submit are dupes BEFORE I submit them! In the past that happened, but something changed and now I never get those notices....
- smithcoin 7mo agoNobody tells you how much it hurts, but it’s worth it (just in the increase in dental hygiene alone in my case). For some reason now it’s assumed these were some kind of injection molding, but it makes perfect sense that it’s 3-D printed.
- baby 7mo agoDidnt hurt much for me
- desireco42 7mo agoMy 2 kids had those and it is amazing compared to traditional way, pulling healthy teeth, wearing braces which are brutal to your teeth. It should be illegal to pull kids teeth when this tech exists. Dentists were angry about this but it is superior in every way. I think costs will come down, but they are already cheaper then alternatives. I am happy my wife researched and discovered Invisalign. One required much more alignment, I don't remember but it was 20+ weeks, other was done in 16 weeks. Now they have retainers and that is it.