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> Stephenson said the data center’s operations team had not seen any “abnormalities” on the day in question. > “However, we take any reports of issues at the s

by bilekas 7mo ago

> Stephenson said the data center’s operations team had not seen any “abnormalities” on the day in question. > “However, we take any reports of issues at the site seriously,” Stephenson wrote Absolutely no abnormalities because this is by design, but nobody wanted to pay attention when approving the building and zoning. Amazing what some money to politicians will get you. I can't even imaging living within ear shot of these things. Horrific quality of life. I can't sleep when my water pump is active. > Turner said county officials didn’t understand in 2022 and 2023 exactly what it meant to have gas turbines at a data center, nor did they have zoning rules to address it. Well then why were they allowed to vote on it ? It's incompetance ? Or just straight up corruption.

ryandrake 7mo ago
It's getting difficult to tell the difference between incompetence and corruption, as widespread as both of them are, and how their consequences always overlap.
- PaulKeeble 7mo ago
  One of the ways corruption hides its intentions is lying to make it look like incompetence. It takes a very long time for the truth to come out and it rarely does but corruption depends on people buying the lies and assuming its just incompetence.
  - matheusmoreira 7mo ago
    Incompetence should carry liability as well. If some politician signs his name to random documents without understanding what he's doing and causes harm to people, he should simply pay the price to make the other party whole, whatever damage was caused should be undone to the fullest possible extent and he should be removed from office for good measure because he's clearly too dumb to exercise it responsibly. That's the benign case. If it turns out he wasn't actually incompetent but was signing things in exchange for money or favors he should go to literal death row. Proven corruption should result in the death penalty for all involved.
    - progbits 7mo ago
      You had me in the first half, the last paragraph is going way too far.
      - matheusmoreira 7mo ago
        If anything it's not going far enough. Corruption should be considered high treason and lead to public executions. As a common citizen, very few things in this world are more demoralizing than witnessing corrupt politicians get filthy rich while trading favors, embezzling money, creating loopholes for corporations to exploit while pretending to regulate them or whatever else it is that they do, there are so many scams it's impossible to enumerate them all. It breaks one's spirit to realize that it's the honest and the just who get punished on a daily basis while the corrupt get constantly rewarded. That is an incalculable crime against society and should absolutely be severely punished. If they don't like it, they can just not be a politician. Nobody asked them to seek power, they fought to be there. Normal citizens get to go to jail, not them. > But he that knew not and committed things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. > For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required > and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
        notarget137 7mo ago
        Then blame shifts to the little guy being the scape goat. I mean it already happens in corrupt countries.
        matheusmoreira 7mo ago
        Revoke their right to privacy. Normal citizens get to have privacy protections. Not them. They are in power to serve us. We should be entitled to know everything they are doing at all times. Let's see them try to scapegoat anyone then. If they don't like it just resign. If a solution isn't working, it's probably because it's not extreme enough. Always go further. If they try to weasel out, preempt them. We aren't dealing with innocent lambs here. These are rich elites who graduated from top universities, high functioning sociopaths who absolutely have enough education and mental acuity to know right from wrong. They take an almost sadistic pleasure in not only subverting morality but in getting away with it. They don't just do things, they rub it in our faces that they did it and got away with it, and think us fools for not stopping them. Corruption is power without responsibility. The more power you have, the more scrutiny you should be subjected to and the more consequences you should suffer.
SpicyLemonZest 7mo ago
What do you mean, "allowed" to vote on it? The county officials are the decisionmakers, who should have allowed or not allowed them? It also seems worth noting that these gas turbine generators are meant to be the solution to another big complaint people have about datacenters, that they might drive up local power prices if they plug into the grid. Like you and the people in the article, I'm personally very sensitive to noise pollution. so to me this sounds like another argument that datacenters should connect to the grid after all. But I'm sure some people disagree and think it's worth it to save on electricity, and others disagree and think there shouldn't be datacenters near them at all. The local government has to resolve the disagreement somehow and no solution is going to make everyone happy.
- ToucanLoucan 7mo ago
  I mean, I'm fine with datacenters plugging into the grid, if they pay for it. I don't understand (and I mean feel free to explain it) this weird shit where a datacenter goes up and everybody's power bills start increasing. I have assumed that it's because the grid's facilities require upgrades to meet the new demand, but in the case of the "new demand" being "one structure consuming an assload of power" it feels incredibly shitty to lay that burden on the taxpayers.
  - hunter2_ 7mo ago
    Ideally, the revenue from the new customer would be enough to cover the upgrades, so long as the new customer makes an up-front committment (from which loans can be written) that makes their risk (of having to pay for the upgrades even if they shut down much sooner than expected) about equal to if they build out their own off-grid system. And then they could sell to existing customers for slightly less than before, due to scale and an overall reduction of peak-to-baseline ratio. But I guess this isn't how the world works.
  - fwip 7mo ago
    There's also the supply/demand aspect of it. Some electricity is cheaper to provide than others - the cheapest is the renewable or nuclear that's already built in the area, but when demand is high, the grid provider will source electricity from more expensive sources - coal, natural gas, or importing it from neighboring utilities. So, using some made-up numbers, if your existing cost for 100MW is $0.10/Wh, getting the next 100MW might cost $0.50/Wh, bumping the cost for everyone up to $0.30/Wh.
tren_hard 7mo ago
[flagged]
- citrin_ru 7mo ago
  > Point is, if you ban anything that makes noise you’ll be left with nothing, it’s pure selfish nimbyism The US is large enough country and it should be possible to build DC far away from homes. That’s a rare case where I support NIMBY. I lived in 1km from a gas fired power station and did bot notice any noise at all. If a DC can be heard it is either too close or too loud.
  - dionidium 7mo ago
    > That’s a rare case where I support NIMBY. It's kind of darkly funny that NIMBY ever came to refer to housing in the first place. The term was originally meant to apply to stuff exactly like this -- i.e. genuinely noxious uses that most people nevertheless agree are necessary somewhere. Almost everybody is a NIMBY in this sense.
    - brador 7mo ago
      NIMBY is an acronym: No In My back Yard.
      - deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
    - JuniperMesos 7mo ago
      Incumbent homeowners (and sometimes renters in rent-control situations) voting for policies that prevent new housing from being built near them is a huge reason why housing costs so much where I live; and reducing local housing costs is probably the single biggest way that policy changes could directly improve my quality of life. Also, housing itself is often a genuinely noxious use of land for incumbent homeowners. In part because construction creates noise and dust and requires upgrading other local physical infrastructure - but also because more housing implies more new people living in an existing neighborhood, and additional people living somewhere can themselves cause problems for the incumbent residents.
saltyoldman 7mo ago
My wife and I travel in our RV a lot and used to full time. Some RV parks - even when full - are often totally quiet and peaceful at least enough to not notice a slight background noise of cars driving around here and there. Then a family will arrive that seems like they're at a Disney theme park and you just hear screaming kids non-stop. It's like a tornado is hitting for days. We always joke if you ask a tornado if it's quiet it will answer of course- I don't hear anything. Because there is NOTHING louder than the tornado and that's all it knows.
scottLobster 7mo ago
Or they don't see the problem. Someone's paying 600-900k to live in a townhouse 1000 ft from the runways at Dulles Airport https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/?category=SEMANTIC&searchQueryState={%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A{%22north%22%3A38.949183022471225%2C%22south%22%3A38.93483013609877%2C%22east%22%3A-77.41640292238642%2C%22west%22%3A-77.44150839876582}%2C%22filterState%22%3A{%22sort%22%3A{%22value%22%3A%22globalrelevanceex%22}%2C%22att%22%3A{%22value%22%3A%22airport%22}}%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A16} https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/?category=SEMANTIC&sea...
- thepryz 7mo ago
  Reminds me of former Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner’s suggestion that deaf people buy homes near the airport. https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/19941105/1939991/ohio-mayor-under-fire-for-saying-deaf-might-like-homes-near-noisy-airport https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/19941105/1939991/oh...
sophrosyne42 7mo ago
A consequence on our focus on legislation rather than the more natural legal apths of addressing these problems, e.g. easements and tort law.
anakaine 7mo ago
Towards the end of the article: > "It was only after the data center was operating, following a tour he took of the facility, that Turner said county officials realized the data center was “running in island mode.” > “It was very impressive, but it was obvious that this is not what we thought was allowed,” Turner said." Youve stated its corruption by officials. Its rather clear, however, that when the company were told that a grid connection would take 3 years that they found a way around it that didnt require further approvals. Conspiracy theories are fun, but this isnt one.
- JuniperMesos 7mo ago
  Maybe there's corruption by officials at the local electric power company and that's why it takes 3 years to get an industrial grid connection. Or maybe there isn't actually any corruption happening and the local electric power company is just building out infrastructure slower or less efficiently than it could in principle be, for the ordinary sorts of reasons why things in this world are not perfect.
JuniperMesos 7mo ago
Why wouldn't they be allowed to vote on it? How does a zoning rule about gas turbines get enacted at all, except by some body noticing that it's a problem and then voting to create such an ordinance? (Or by voting not to do so, if they think it isn't actually that much of a problem or if there's a way to mitigate it or if the benefits outweigh the costs, just like with any other issue that's within the purview of the county officials?)

by bilekas 7mo ago

ryandrake 7mo ago

It's getting difficult to tell the difference between incompetence and corruption, as widespread as both of them are, and how their consequences always overlap.

PaulKeeble 7mo ago
One of the ways corruption hides its intentions is lying to make it look like incompetence. It takes a very long time for the truth to come out and it rarely does but corruption depends on people buying the lies and assuming its just incompetence.
- matheusmoreira 7mo ago
  Incompetence should carry liability as well. If some politician signs his name to random documents without understanding what he's doing and causes harm to people, he should simply pay the price to make the other party whole, whatever damage was caused should be undone to the fullest possible extent and he should be removed from office for good measure because he's clearly too dumb to exercise it responsibly. That's the benign case. If it turns out he wasn't actually incompetent but was signing things in exchange for money or favors he should go to literal death row. Proven corruption should result in the death penalty for all involved.
  - progbits 7mo ago
    You had me in the first half, the last paragraph is going way too far.
    - matheusmoreira 7mo ago
      If anything it's not going far enough. Corruption should be considered high treason and lead to public executions. As a common citizen, very few things in this world are more demoralizing than witnessing corrupt politicians get filthy rich while trading favors, embezzling money, creating loopholes for corporations to exploit while pretending to regulate them or whatever else it is that they do, there are so many scams it's impossible to enumerate them all. It breaks one's spirit to realize that it's the honest and the just who get punished on a daily basis while the corrupt get constantly rewarded. That is an incalculable crime against society and should absolutely be severely punished. If they don't like it, they can just not be a politician. Nobody asked them to seek power, they fought to be there. Normal citizens get to go to jail, not them. > But he that knew not and committed things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. > For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required > and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
      - notarget137 7mo ago
        Then blame shifts to the little guy being the scape goat. I mean it already happens in corrupt countries.
        matheusmoreira 7mo ago
        Revoke their right to privacy. Normal citizens get to have privacy protections. Not them. They are in power to serve us. We should be entitled to know everything they are doing at all times. Let's see them try to scapegoat anyone then. If they don't like it just resign. If a solution isn't working, it's probably because it's not extreme enough. Always go further. If they try to weasel out, preempt them. We aren't dealing with innocent lambs here. These are rich elites who graduated from top universities, high functioning sociopaths who absolutely have enough education and mental acuity to know right from wrong. They take an almost sadistic pleasure in not only subverting morality but in getting away with it. They don't just do things, they rub it in our faces that they did it and got away with it, and think us fools for not stopping them. Corruption is power without responsibility. The more power you have, the more scrutiny you should be subjected to and the more consequences you should suffer.

SpicyLemonZest 7mo ago

What do you mean, "allowed" to vote on it? The county officials are the decisionmakers, who should have allowed or not allowed them? It also seems worth noting that these gas turbine generators are meant to be the solution to another big complaint people have about datacenters, that they might drive up local power prices if they plug into the grid. Like you and the people in the article, I'm personally very sensitive to noise pollution. so to me this sounds like another argument that datacenters should connect to the grid after all. But I'm sure some people disagree and think it's worth it to save on electricity, and others disagree and think there shouldn't be datacenters near them at all. The local government has to resolve the disagreement somehow and no solution is going to make everyone happy.

ToucanLoucan 7mo ago
I mean, I'm fine with datacenters plugging into the grid, if they pay for it. I don't understand (and I mean feel free to explain it) this weird shit where a datacenter goes up and everybody's power bills start increasing. I have assumed that it's because the grid's facilities require upgrades to meet the new demand, but in the case of the "new demand" being "one structure consuming an assload of power" it feels incredibly shitty to lay that burden on the taxpayers.
- hunter2_ 7mo ago
  Ideally, the revenue from the new customer would be enough to cover the upgrades, so long as the new customer makes an up-front committment (from which loans can be written) that makes their risk (of having to pay for the upgrades even if they shut down much sooner than expected) about equal to if they build out their own off-grid system. And then they could sell to existing customers for slightly less than before, due to scale and an overall reduction of peak-to-baseline ratio. But I guess this isn't how the world works.
- fwip 7mo ago
  There's also the supply/demand aspect of it. Some electricity is cheaper to provide than others - the cheapest is the renewable or nuclear that's already built in the area, but when demand is high, the grid provider will source electricity from more expensive sources - coal, natural gas, or importing it from neighboring utilities. So, using some made-up numbers, if your existing cost for 100MW is $0.10/Wh, getting the next 100MW might cost $0.50/Wh, bumping the cost for everyone up to $0.30/Wh.

tren_hard 7mo ago

[flagged]

citrin_ru 7mo ago
> Point is, if you ban anything that makes noise you’ll be left with nothing, it’s pure selfish nimbyism The US is large enough country and it should be possible to build DC far away from homes. That’s a rare case where I support NIMBY. I lived in 1km from a gas fired power station and did bot notice any noise at all. If a DC can be heard it is either too close or too loud.
- dionidium 7mo ago
  > That’s a rare case where I support NIMBY. It's kind of darkly funny that NIMBY ever came to refer to housing in the first place. The term was originally meant to apply to stuff exactly like this -- i.e. genuinely noxious uses that most people nevertheless agree are necessary somewhere. Almost everybody is a NIMBY in this sense.
  - brador 7mo ago
    NIMBY is an acronym: No In My back Yard.
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
  - JuniperMesos 7mo ago
    Incumbent homeowners (and sometimes renters in rent-control situations) voting for policies that prevent new housing from being built near them is a huge reason why housing costs so much where I live; and reducing local housing costs is probably the single biggest way that policy changes could directly improve my quality of life. Also, housing itself is often a genuinely noxious use of land for incumbent homeowners. In part because construction creates noise and dust and requires upgrading other local physical infrastructure - but also because more housing implies more new people living in an existing neighborhood, and additional people living somewhere can themselves cause problems for the incumbent residents.

saltyoldman 7mo ago

My wife and I travel in our RV a lot and used to full time. Some RV parks - even when full - are often totally quiet and peaceful at least enough to not notice a slight background noise of cars driving around here and there. Then a family will arrive that seems like they're at a Disney theme park and you just hear screaming kids non-stop. It's like a tornado is hitting for days. We always joke if you ask a tornado if it's quiet it will answer of course- I don't hear anything. Because there is NOTHING louder than the tornado and that's all it knows.

scottLobster 7mo ago

Or they don't see the problem. Someone's paying 600-900k to live in a townhouse 1000 ft from the runways at Dulles Airport https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/?category=SEMANTIC&searchQueryState={%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A{%22north%22%3A38.949183022471225%2C%22south%22%3A38.93483013609877%2C%22east%22%3A-77.41640292238642%2C%22west%22%3A-77.44150839876582}%2C%22filterState%22%3A{%22sort%22%3A{%22value%22%3A%22globalrelevanceex%22}%2C%22att%22%3A{%22value%22%3A%22airport%22}}%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A16} https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/?category=SEMANTIC&sea...

thepryz 7mo ago
Reminds me of former Toledo Mayor Carty Finkbeiner’s suggestion that deaf people buy homes near the airport. https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/19941105/1939991/ohio-mayor-under-fire-for-saying-deaf-might-like-homes-near-noisy-airport https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/19941105/1939991/oh...

sophrosyne42 7mo ago

A consequence on our focus on legislation rather than the more natural legal apths of addressing these problems, e.g. easements and tort law.

anakaine 7mo ago

Towards the end of the article: > "It was only after the data center was operating, following a tour he took of the facility, that Turner said county officials realized the data center was “running in island mode.” > “It was very impressive, but it was obvious that this is not what we thought was allowed,” Turner said." Youve stated its corruption by officials. Its rather clear, however, that when the company were told that a grid connection would take 3 years that they found a way around it that didnt require further approvals. Conspiracy theories are fun, but this isnt one.

JuniperMesos 7mo ago
Maybe there's corruption by officials at the local electric power company and that's why it takes 3 years to get an industrial grid connection. Or maybe there isn't actually any corruption happening and the local electric power company is just building out infrastructure slower or less efficiently than it could in principle be, for the ordinary sorts of reasons why things in this world are not perfect.

JuniperMesos 7mo ago

Why wouldn't they be allowed to vote on it? How does a zoning rule about gas turbines get enacted at all, except by some body noticing that it's a problem and then voting to create such an ordinance? (Or by voting not to do so, if they think it isn't actually that much of a problem or if there's a way to mitigate it or if the benefits outweigh the costs, just like with any other issue that's within the purview of the county officials?)