4 ms·

Do they let 16 year olds gamble in casinos in Europe? Odd to ban it for kids but only some kids.

idiotsecant 8mo ago
Pretty much all of Europe is 18-21.
pdpi 8mo ago
If you're forbidding people from doing things they could do yesterday, it's best to be a little conservative with your scope. 16-yo kids might do some amount of part time work, and should at least have enough of a concept of money to understand why pressing the "more loot boxes" button is a Bad Idea. They're also old enough that they might potentially have their own bank account and their own card, which then caps the damages to their allowance.
- charcircuit 8mo ago
  That would require extra work to pass more legislation which has a chance to fail. I think it's better to do it all once instead of having to revisit the issue every couple years.
- tjpnz 8mo ago
  So what's the issue then? The minimum is 16 - or are you proposing kids 15 and younger have the right to gamble?
  - kulahan 8mo ago
    It’s not like if it fails, you’re forbidden from trying again, yeah? Or am I incorrect on this? Not European.
ffsm8 8mo ago
You can still buy mystery boxes etc in brick and mortar stores. Most of these are targeted at <= 10 yo I strongly believe that this is mostly performative, honestly
notrealyme123 8mo ago
You can buy trading cards in lots of stores. Pokémon, soccer and so on. It's hard to draw a line without banning those as well.
- Ekaros 8mo ago
  So much that could be done with those. Mandating age checks. Covering at least 80% of them with warnings about gambling. Maybe plain packaging and only allowing them from behind counter or unmarked automated systems. Treat them as tobacco products.
  - sidewndr46 8mo ago
    OK, we mandate age checks. But what is the minimum age? Am I in trouble if I make a straw purchase of that product for someone else?
  - thaumasiotes 8mo ago
    You can just ban them. Pass a law that says if someone buys an item the identity of which is undisclosed, and they're not happy with it, they're entitled to a full refund.
    - lostmsu 8mo ago
      Hm, my phone's IMEI doesn't end in 00000
- hkt 8mo ago
  Pokémon can probably have it's immense (and insane) secondary market attributed to its gambling-esque qualities. It'd be perfectly fine if people could play with decks they chose and cards were sold at a uniform price, provided the game itself is balanced - which is to say gambling elements in these things are probably by design.
amiga386 8mo ago
What are "kids"? Age of majority is all over the place, there's no hard and fast rule for when adolescents become adults, every society on the planet has a different take on it. For example, you can get married at 16 in the UK, but can't drive until 17 (it's not a priority as we didn't build so many car-dependent hellscapes), and you can buy alcohol at 18 or be given it with a meal by your parents at younger ages, because we didn't have puritans making motorway funding contingent on passing strict drinking laws like the USA did. Anyway, what I remember from the UK's Gambling Commission giving committee evidence to MPs on this topic is to ask the question: what is gambling? What activities need strict regulation, audit trails, compliance inspectors, etc? Village fête tombolas? Fundraising prize draws? Radio station cash giveaways? Top trumps? Panini sticker albums? Lootboxes are not slot machines or FOB terminals. If they can't be "cashed out", they are more like collectible card games... which are also IMHO a plague on humanity, but not the same level of destructive activity as gambling for cash. They do need regulation, given how prevalent they are in games popular with teenagers, but need different regulation from casinos. Games like Fortnite deserve regulation too, weaponised FOMO to keep money rolling in is sketchy.
- messe 8mo ago
  > Lootboxes are not slot machines or FBO terminals. If they can't be "cashed out", they are more like collectible card games... which are also IMHO a plague on humanity, but not the same level of destructive activity as gambling for cash. They do need regulation, given how prevalent they are in games popular with teenagers, but need different regulation from casinos. Even if they can't be cashed out officially, there are often other unofficial ways. Like selling the accounts in question.
  - amiga386 8mo ago
    Needing a secondary market to cash out is not the same as the vendor providing both the game of chance and the winnings. You can sell/trade MTG and Pokemon cards, but that doesn't make them "casinos"
    - rcxdude 8mo ago
swiftcoder 8mo ago
Age of majority is a whole mess. For example, the UK is busy reducing the voting age to 16 (from 18) for the next election, but simultaneously they are requiring online age verification to restrict much of the internet to 18+...
olgkov 7mo ago
[dead]

Pretty much all of Europe is 18-21.

pdpi 8mo ago

If you're forbidding people from doing things they could do yesterday, it's best to be a little conservative with your scope. 16-yo kids might do some amount of part time work, and should at least have enough of a concept of money to understand why pressing the "more loot boxes" button is a Bad Idea. They're also old enough that they might potentially have their own bank account and their own card, which then caps the damages to their allowance.

charcircuit 8mo ago
That would require extra work to pass more legislation which has a chance to fail. I think it's better to do it all once instead of having to revisit the issue every couple years.
tjpnz 8mo ago
So what's the issue then? The minimum is 16 - or are you proposing kids 15 and younger have the right to gamble?
- kulahan 8mo ago
  It’s not like if it fails, you’re forbidden from trying again, yeah? Or am I incorrect on this? Not European.

ffsm8 8mo ago

You can still buy mystery boxes etc in brick and mortar stores. Most of these are targeted at <= 10 yo I strongly believe that this is mostly performative, honestly

notrealyme123 8mo ago

You can buy trading cards in lots of stores. Pokémon, soccer and so on. It's hard to draw a line without banning those as well.

Ekaros 8mo ago
So much that could be done with those. Mandating age checks. Covering at least 80% of them with warnings about gambling. Maybe plain packaging and only allowing them from behind counter or unmarked automated systems. Treat them as tobacco products.
- sidewndr46 8mo ago
  OK, we mandate age checks. But what is the minimum age? Am I in trouble if I make a straw purchase of that product for someone else?
- thaumasiotes 8mo ago
  You can just ban them. Pass a law that says if someone buys an item the identity of which is undisclosed, and they're not happy with it, they're entitled to a full refund.
  - lostmsu 8mo ago
    Hm, my phone's IMEI doesn't end in 00000
hkt 8mo ago
Pokémon can probably have it's immense (and insane) secondary market attributed to its gambling-esque qualities. It'd be perfectly fine if people could play with decks they chose and cards were sold at a uniform price, provided the game itself is balanced - which is to say gambling elements in these things are probably by design.

amiga386 8mo ago

What are "kids"? Age of majority is all over the place, there's no hard and fast rule for when adolescents become adults, every society on the planet has a different take on it. For example, you can get married at 16 in the UK, but can't drive until 17 (it's not a priority as we didn't build so many car-dependent hellscapes), and you can buy alcohol at 18 or be given it with a meal by your parents at younger ages, because we didn't have puritans making motorway funding contingent on passing strict drinking laws like the USA did. Anyway, what I remember from the UK's Gambling Commission giving committee evidence to MPs on this topic is to ask the question: what is gambling? What activities need strict regulation, audit trails, compliance inspectors, etc? Village fête tombolas? Fundraising prize draws? Radio station cash giveaways? Top trumps? Panini sticker albums? Lootboxes are not slot machines or FOB terminals. If they can't be "cashed out", they are more like collectible card games... which are also IMHO a plague on humanity, but not the same level of destructive activity as gambling for cash. They do need regulation, given how prevalent they are in games popular with teenagers, but need different regulation from casinos. Games like Fortnite deserve regulation too, weaponised FOMO to keep money rolling in is sketchy.

messe 8mo ago
> Lootboxes are not slot machines or FBO terminals. If they can't be "cashed out", they are more like collectible card games... which are also IMHO a plague on humanity, but not the same level of destructive activity as gambling for cash. They do need regulation, given how prevalent they are in games popular with teenagers, but need different regulation from casinos. Even if they can't be cashed out officially, there are often other unofficial ways. Like selling the accounts in question.
- amiga386 8mo ago
  Needing a secondary market to cash out is not the same as the vendor providing both the game of chance and the winnings. You can sell/trade MTG and Pokemon cards, but that doesn't make them "casinos"
  - rcxdude 8mo ago

swiftcoder 8mo ago

Age of majority is a whole mess. For example, the UK is busy reducing the voting age to 16 (from 18) for the next election, but simultaneously they are requiring online age verification to restrict much of the internet to 18+...

olgkov 7mo ago

[dead]