11 ms·

Commercial uses layered surge protectors (Type I, II, and III), which is also recommended for other users but rarely followed. In surge prone areas, at a minim

Commercial uses layered surge protectors (Type I, II, and III), which is also recommended for other users but rarely followed. In surge prone areas, at a minimum I would have good quality whole-house surge protector (eg Siemens 140 or Eaton 108), and a good quality surge protector strip for any computer/TV/phone charger. I also put surge protectors in front of expensive white goods like the fridge, washer/dryer, dishwasher, and garage door opener. Besides being costly to replace these can contain "sparky" motors and this provides protection in the other direction too. Over time smaller surges can degrade the main surge protector for your computer. Nothing (reasonable) can protect against direct lightning strikes, but for anything less it should provide decent protection.

david_allison 7mo ago
> Nothing (reasonable) can protect against direct lightning strikes Belkin make a number of surge protectors which offer a connected equipment warranty in the UK. Admittedly: financial protection, not data protection, but I felt it was worthwhile for the peace of mind. https://www.belkin.com/id/p/6-outlet-surge-protection-strip-with-2m-power-cord/BSV603vf2M.html https://www.belkin.com/id/p/6-outlet-surge-protection-strip-...
- gruez 7mo ago
  >Admittedly: financial protection, not data protection You should have data backups regardless, because there are plenty of ways to lose data that don't involve power surges.
- pseudohadamard 7mo ago
  Have they ever paid out on one of those, or is it like CAs who offer liability protection for their certificates carefully set up in such a way that they never have to pay out.
gruez 7mo ago
>In surge prone areas What areas are surge prone?
- toss1 7mo ago
  Areas with lots of thunderstorms. Also more rural areas with long power lines with few taps off for customers — the long runs are both exposed to many nearby strikes and accept induction well, and the few customers are fewer power sinks to dissipate the spike. So, you're more likely to get hit, and hit harder.
  - gruez 7mo ago
    Sounds like if you're in an urban area with buried lines, you don't have to worry?
    - marcosdumay 7mo ago
      I would recommend a circuit surge protector in urban areas. Lightning getting through some structure and hitting the electric lines happens. Even when they are buried. It's less of a problem when the ground absorbs a lot of the power before it even get into copper, but it's even less of a problem if there's some cheap device that will burn and protect you from it.
    - schiffern 7mo ago
      In urban areas you probably can just have the whole-house surge protector and skip the rest, since that protects all costly electronics not just a single device. With just a surge strip on the PC I'd say you're a tad under-protected, yeah. Incidentally whole-house surge protection is now required by code in new houses. Existing buildings aren't required to upgrade, but by my reasoning what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    - toss1 7mo ago
      No, just worry less about big lightning, but urban areas have many more sources of different types of spikes and line noise
- frrlpp 7mo ago
  Open aerial wiring can shortcircuit two phases, bringing a low impedance surge that can damage most electric and electronic equipment.
tempaccount5050 7mo ago
Are you in an area with a bad electrical grid or something? In 40+ years I've never had a single device get fried from a surge/storm. My "surge protector" power strips are from the 90s and probably don't even work.
- schiffern 7mo ago
  Not too bad, just rural. We used to lose stuff every 10 years or so. One day The Big One came along and fried nearly everything. "Once burned, twice shy." Hopefully someone can learn from my mistake and not have to do it post-mortem.
- tharkun__ 7mo ago
  This. Same timeframe and I've lived through both lots of lightning storms and in areas with lots of power failures. Some of them intermittent and essentially caused by transformers blowing up. Like earlier this winter, we had multiple storms where you'd hear a transformer blow up, in many cases even seeing the sky light up as well from it, power going out, couple seconds, power coming back, next transformer blowing out, rinse, repeat. On the other hand I've read about plenty of stories of the "cheap" UPSs you'd usually buy as a consumer (not to name any brands coz I've never had any) actually causing such issues in the first place. Without any actual surges from the grid. That said, being totally not superstitious (for real, but someone's gonna "kill me" if they find out I wrote this and something dies from a surge...), now I guess I need to knock on wood like seventeen times ... I do use surge protectors when we're on generator power temporarily.
  - ssl-3 7mo ago
    The things people often call "transformers blowing up" are usually not transformers blowing up. Instead, it's usually just overhead wires that are too close or literally touching, often from influences like wind and ice. The electricity arcs between the wires, creating bright blue-white flashes that can be seen from far away, sometimes with instantaneous heat that makes hunks of metal wire evaporate explosively. It can be violent and loud, and repetitious as different parts of even a single run fail. Transformers can certainly blow up, but that's less common. They're (generally) filled with oil for cooling purposes, and they're massive things that tend to take time to get hot. A failed transformer can produce arcing and blue-white light, but if things are that hot then the oil is also ready to burn. And when the oil burns it isn't blue-white -- it burns with about the same yellow-orange color we saw the last time we accidentally flambéed dinner on the kitchen stove, or a Hollywood fireball. A bright flash without a fire is probably not a transformer. Here's a video of a transformer actually-exploding (note the prominent fireball): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFkfd31Wpng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFkfd31Wpng And here's a video of what someone describes as a transformer exploding, even though there are no transformers in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHVh0KwG_0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHVh0KwG_0k
huflungdung 7mo ago
[dead]
burnt-resistor 7mo ago
Not completely correct, nuanced, or comprehensive. Direct lighting strikes cannot be defended against without extreme costs. This type of risk is generally extremely unlikely except for certain niche use-cases like equipment or facilities on tall peaks. Transients from lightning (E2) nearby and distant nuclear detonations can be defended against, and often require additional protection of telco and internet entry points. Whole house type 1 SPD devices exist for residential applications. This is much more likely than direct lightning strikes, especially in certain areas and can be defended against for reasonable cost. The main issue of lacking it is the unseen, cumulative degradation of semiconductor components that lead to instantaneous or eventual failure, especially in high value devices like electrically-communicated motors in HVAC systems. There is no reasonable expectation of defense against a direct lightning strike even with type 1 SPD, and there are different types of lightning with vastly different amounts of energy. A positive strike direct hit will totally fry anything and everything. What generally isn't defended against at all in any infrastructure or system except some military equipment is H/NEMP E1 (short duration impulses) or E3 (E3a or E3b; long duration surges larger than lightning) such as from unusual space weather events or nuclear blasts.
andylynch 7mo ago
> Nothing (reasonable) can protect against direct lightning strikes This is one reason why you bury power cables.
- Kirby64 7mo ago
  Burying power cables doesn’t help against direct lightning strikes. If lightning hits your house, underground power cables will do nothing.

david_allison 7mo ago

> Nothing (reasonable) can protect against direct lightning strikes Belkin make a number of surge protectors which offer a connected equipment warranty in the UK. Admittedly: financial protection, not data protection, but I felt it was worthwhile for the peace of mind. https://www.belkin.com/id/p/6-outlet-surge-protection-strip-with-2m-power-cord/BSV603vf2M.html https://www.belkin.com/id/p/6-outlet-surge-protection-strip-...

gruez 7mo ago
>Admittedly: financial protection, not data protection You should have data backups regardless, because there are plenty of ways to lose data that don't involve power surges.
pseudohadamard 7mo ago
Have they ever paid out on one of those, or is it like CAs who offer liability protection for their certificates carefully set up in such a way that they never have to pay out.

gruez 7mo ago

>In surge prone areas What areas are surge prone?

toss1 7mo ago
Areas with lots of thunderstorms. Also more rural areas with long power lines with few taps off for customers — the long runs are both exposed to many nearby strikes and accept induction well, and the few customers are fewer power sinks to dissipate the spike. So, you're more likely to get hit, and hit harder.
- gruez 7mo ago
  Sounds like if you're in an urban area with buried lines, you don't have to worry?
  - marcosdumay 7mo ago
    I would recommend a circuit surge protector in urban areas. Lightning getting through some structure and hitting the electric lines happens. Even when they are buried. It's less of a problem when the ground absorbs a lot of the power before it even get into copper, but it's even less of a problem if there's some cheap device that will burn and protect you from it.
  - schiffern 7mo ago
    In urban areas you probably can just have the whole-house surge protector and skip the rest, since that protects all costly electronics not just a single device. With just a surge strip on the PC I'd say you're a tad under-protected, yeah. Incidentally whole-house surge protection is now required by code in new houses. Existing buildings aren't required to upgrade, but by my reasoning what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
  - toss1 7mo ago
    No, just worry less about big lightning, but urban areas have many more sources of different types of spikes and line noise
frrlpp 7mo ago
Open aerial wiring can shortcircuit two phases, bringing a low impedance surge that can damage most electric and electronic equipment.

tempaccount5050 7mo ago

Are you in an area with a bad electrical grid or something? In 40+ years I've never had a single device get fried from a surge/storm. My "surge protector" power strips are from the 90s and probably don't even work.

schiffern 7mo ago
Not too bad, just rural. We used to lose stuff every 10 years or so. One day The Big One came along and fried nearly everything. "Once burned, twice shy." Hopefully someone can learn from my mistake and not have to do it post-mortem.
tharkun__ 7mo ago
This. Same timeframe and I've lived through both lots of lightning storms and in areas with lots of power failures. Some of them intermittent and essentially caused by transformers blowing up. Like earlier this winter, we had multiple storms where you'd hear a transformer blow up, in many cases even seeing the sky light up as well from it, power going out, couple seconds, power coming back, next transformer blowing out, rinse, repeat. On the other hand I've read about plenty of stories of the "cheap" UPSs you'd usually buy as a consumer (not to name any brands coz I've never had any) actually causing such issues in the first place. Without any actual surges from the grid. That said, being totally not superstitious (for real, but someone's gonna "kill me" if they find out I wrote this and something dies from a surge...), now I guess I need to knock on wood like seventeen times ... I do use surge protectors when we're on generator power temporarily.
- ssl-3 7mo ago
  The things people often call "transformers blowing up" are usually not transformers blowing up. Instead, it's usually just overhead wires that are too close or literally touching, often from influences like wind and ice. The electricity arcs between the wires, creating bright blue-white flashes that can be seen from far away, sometimes with instantaneous heat that makes hunks of metal wire evaporate explosively. It can be violent and loud, and repetitious as different parts of even a single run fail. Transformers can certainly blow up, but that's less common. They're (generally) filled with oil for cooling purposes, and they're massive things that tend to take time to get hot. A failed transformer can produce arcing and blue-white light, but if things are that hot then the oil is also ready to burn. And when the oil burns it isn't blue-white -- it burns with about the same yellow-orange color we saw the last time we accidentally flambéed dinner on the kitchen stove, or a Hollywood fireball. A bright flash without a fire is probably not a transformer. Here's a video of a transformer actually-exploding (note the prominent fireball): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFkfd31Wpng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFkfd31Wpng And here's a video of what someone describes as a transformer exploding, even though there are no transformers in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHVh0KwG_0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHVh0KwG_0k

huflungdung 7mo ago

[dead]

burnt-resistor 7mo ago

Not completely correct, nuanced, or comprehensive. Direct lighting strikes cannot be defended against without extreme costs. This type of risk is generally extremely unlikely except for certain niche use-cases like equipment or facilities on tall peaks. Transients from lightning (E2) nearby and distant nuclear detonations can be defended against, and often require additional protection of telco and internet entry points. Whole house type 1 SPD devices exist for residential applications. This is much more likely than direct lightning strikes, especially in certain areas and can be defended against for reasonable cost. The main issue of lacking it is the unseen, cumulative degradation of semiconductor components that lead to instantaneous or eventual failure, especially in high value devices like electrically-communicated motors in HVAC systems. There is no reasonable expectation of defense against a direct lightning strike even with type 1 SPD, and there are different types of lightning with vastly different amounts of energy. A positive strike direct hit will totally fry anything and everything. What generally isn't defended against at all in any infrastructure or system except some military equipment is H/NEMP E1 (short duration impulses) or E3 (E3a or E3b; long duration surges larger than lightning) such as from unusual space weather events or nuclear blasts.

andylynch 7mo ago

> Nothing (reasonable) can protect against direct lightning strikes This is one reason why you bury power cables.

Kirby64 7mo ago
Burying power cables doesn’t help against direct lightning strikes. If lightning hits your house, underground power cables will do nothing.