7 ms·

Roblox turns a blind eye to child exploitation (whether being creeped on by adults, or being exploited by teens/adults to make games) and makes a fortune out of

Roblox turns a blind eye to child exploitation (whether being creeped on by adults, or being exploited by teens/adults to make games) and makes a fortune out of it. If it weren't online, it'd be illegal and people would be in jail. Also, Roblox's favourite thing - other than sitting back and rolling in the cash that their playerbase generated for them - is puff pieces in the news talking about how people who make games for them strike it rich!!!! They don't mention that to do so, you first have to become popular amongst millions of competing titles, and the easiest way to do it is to pay them so they'll advertise it for you. Oh, and the company scrip - Robux - has very, very different exchange rates, depending on whether you want to buy Robux from the company, or you want to get a payout and convert your Robux to real money. They pay a lot less than it costs to buy Robux, further incentivising you to never actually make real money, because your Robux is "worth more" inside the Roblox walled garden. This is on top of the 75% cut they take! In all, approximately 17% of the real-world money paid into Roblox is paid back out to creators. What a scam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY

Heliodex 8mo ago
The 2 videos linked here are nearing 5 years old now and have been refuted many times, including by some of the developers mentioned in the article. To condense it as much as possible: The 1st video hinges on a point where they find that developers earn a revenue cut of 24.5%, a number that isn't correct because 1. it's found by multiplying 3 arbitrarily chosen numbers together (the DevEx rate, the default sales fee, and the mean price of Robux) which isn't representative of what the average developer is earning and barely appears in the actual cash flow on the platform, 2. it's using the DevEx rates and sales fees from 2021. Today, DevEx rates are higher and fees are lower. Engagement-based payouts are not accounted for here either (which are also much higher than they were in 2021). 3. it's profit, not revenue. The expenses are paid for before the money is paid out. Comparing this to other platforms that offer revenue shares instead is misrepresentative. The 2nd video hinges more on moderation, showing how children are exploited by bringing them off platform, namely to Discord, where most of the evidence referenced in the video takes place. Broadly, this is Discord's problem, not Roblox's. They then suggest Unity as an alternative platform, which I personally think is a much worse option. I used to be more cynical about this and believe the video creators were clearly being pushed by companies that had a financial incentive in the downfall of Roblox, though nowadays I just attribute it to bad journalism and watchbait. I suggest reading EcoScratcher's brilliant response <https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/7e1c1f0fc493 https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/7e1c1f0fc493> and follow-up articles <https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/e51651da6bf4 https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/e51651da6bf4>, of which their 2nd video briefly mentions and claims it misquotes (it doesn't) and misrepresents (it doesn't) their position. Edits in response to parent comment edits: > They pay a lot less than it costs to buy Robux, further incentivising you to never actually make real money, because your Robux is "worth more" inside the Roblox walled garden Specifically through the DevEx programme, Roblox pays a small amount less than it costs to buy Robux to enable them to pay for server upkeep, platform hosting & support, and app store fees (when a developer's game is available through an app store, the app store fees for purchases are paid by Roblox). The rest (any Robux taken out of the economy, including that spent on advertising or first-party avatar items) goes towards platform investment and employee costs. > This is on top of the 75% cut they take! The DevEx rates have already been factored into this inaccurate "75%" figure. Taking the DevEx rates out a 2nd time (which, emphatically, never happens on the platform) makes it more inaccurate. The actual figure, calculated at <https://create.roblox.com/docs/monetize-experiences https://create.roblox.com/docs/monetize-experiences>, is 67% given to developers per in-experience dollar spent, making for a near industry-standard 33% cut. And even this is underrepresentative due to being published before the September 2025 DevEx increase.
- Sebguer 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- Retric 8mo ago
  > making for a near industry-standard 33% cut. LIES, from that link: “On average, 67% of all spending in experiences supports OR goes to developers.” Supports here does not actually mean they get paid that money. Later it mentions the actual money going to developers as: “This enables us to return 28%* directly to the developers.” And yes that 28% includes an asterisk. That’s a 72% cut to the platform.
  - bhawks 8mo ago
    You're missing the parts where: 1: Roblox hosts your multiplayer gameservers in its pops for free, with a generous amount of free persistent storage and memory 1.a: Roblox handles scaling and SRE work for you for free - you're not going to be able to support millions of concurrent users yourself at that price point 2: when people buy robux on their phone the app store takes 20-30% of the dollar - but the player still gets 1 robux for each penny. 2.a: your game immediately is playable on iOS, android, PC, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation, questvr, etc etc - no fees for you to get this distribution. 3: Roblox pays out creator rewards - a redistribution of revenue - to experiences that reengage dormant users or are played by paying users even if your game itself has no purchasable items. Roblox's economic model has a redistributive nature that isn't common in other economies. If you're just looking at the devex rate and not building on the platform you wouldn't immediately appreciate it.
    - fragmede 8mo ago
      72% cut's still pretty steep for all that. Like, these aren't large corporations Roblox is working with, it's kids. It's their platform, and they get to charge whatever they want, and kids can choose not to use it, but 72% still seems exploitative to me. Not a parent tho.
      - WaxProlix 8mo ago
vzchmidt0 8mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
anileated 8mo ago
CEO of Roblox was once asked whether he would ever put prediction markets inside Roblox, he gave a straight face answer: https://youtu.be/XpIXRgMlPo4?t=2122 https://youtu.be/XpIXRgMlPo4?t=2122
- tovej 8mo ago
  Jesus Christ. This man is just a sociopath who doesn't bother to mask anymore.
  - popcorncowboy 8mo ago
    Eventually the money just inures you.
- Lutger 8mo ago
  Brilliant conversation. "Would you let kids gamble?" - "It sounds very fun and obvious." "To be clear, we think it's a horrible idea!"
  - embedding-shape 8mo ago
    And then of course he continues (although won't make for a good social media rage point so understandable you didn't provide full context): > Well, I actually think it's a brilliant idea if it can be done in an educational way that's legal. > no free Robux, no free prizes, just a game called the dress to impress predictor where it's not like trying to get kids money or anything like that. Still, probably what he sees in his mind is "more money yay" as always, he is a CEO of a for-profit company, that's what they do. But still felt disingenuous not to include the full context, doesn't even make it "that much better", he still seems like a scumbag with it.
    - pastage 8mo ago
      We can mince his words. In the end anyone who organize gambling for profit is scum. If you do it for charity I know form experience it is massively profitable, but.. I am not sure it is worth it for society.
_ink_ 8mo ago
> Robux - has very, very different exchange rates, depending on whether you want to buy Robux from the company, or you want to get a payout and convert your Robux to real money. Wtf? That should not be legal.
- roysting 8mo ago
  The best you could hope for is regulation of the delta or maybe enforcement of markets. The problem is really that such abuse is a kind of debt bondage, you have no other choices but essentially the Roblox company store. It’s a newish form of the same abuse due to the nature of tech, game addiction, and the decay of culture and society; but it’s also why society has not developed a response against that particular practice any more than the corrosive and addicting nature of “games” that are essentially not much different than gambling, only more legal and across a wider user base. I have a theory that much of the gambling industry in the USA has atrophied because the “investors”, aka, the corrupts and rotten people of the gambling industry that are/came from organized crime, have moved into “gaming”. I have specific reason to believe that was a general trend beyond specific cases. For example, people who’s job was to develop extremely addicting slot machine “games” both visually and in their manipulation of addiction patterns, i.e., how to push and milk someone to the limit before they can be pulled back into the gamblers fallacy. But now I’ve gotten way off topic…but not really. It’s all dark, evil patterns; using game addiction to exploit the capture through debt bondage.
  - TedDoesntTalk 8mo ago
    It’s not debt bondage in Roblox. It’s company scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
    - amiga386 8mo ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store
stavros 8mo ago
Isn't there a secondary market for Robux that then sells for much better prices?
- sghitbyabazooka 8mo ago
  that also has a cap, you're not getting more than $6 per 1000 robux there, which is a little under double the official rate but still only 2 thirds of what users actually paid for said robux. not including the risk of the platform banning you.
  - jiggunjer 8mo ago
    You're implying I can buy 1000 rbx for 10 usd. But I have been paying 5 times that in my country... So is the cash out rate also variable by country?
    - sghitbyabazooka 8mo ago
      i picked the 10k robux for $100 package as the baseline - the grey market has never reached that ceiling. no, when cashing out, 1 robux is 1 robux, doesn't matter what currency you paid for it. an exception was if the robux was old, from the period where you could trade tix (free) for robux, but i don't think that applies anymore
coryrc 8mo ago
What percentage of real-world money paid to Google goes out to Google SWEs? (This is not to dismiss the roblox concerns, it's a "yes-and")
KellyCriterion 8mo ago
I guess thats the reason why they are a billion-doll-marketcap company by today? Didnt know about these asymmetries within payin/payout: This is like a casino where I have an "exchange rate for their chips"?
casey2 8mo ago
Yup, so many people focused on sexual exploitation that they ignore the traditional exploitation. Doesn't look any better when you realize ALL sexual exploitation is downwind of this financial one.
amelius 8mo ago
> (...) puff pieces in the news talking about how people who make games for them strike it rich!!!! They don't mention that to do so, you first have to become popular amongst millions of competing titles, and the easiest way to do it is to pay them so they'll advertise it for you. Sounds an awful lot like the AppStore, to be honest.
morelandjs 8mo ago
It’s depressing how many lucrative big tech (FAANG/Unicorn) jobs are effectively scams with business glitter on top. And it’s not always obvious unless you really sit down during the interview process and scrutinize the business model.
giarc 8mo ago
My kids play Roblox and get often get gift cards from friends for birthday presents etc. I've always hated that a gift card for $20 can't be redeemed for the equivalent Robux. Instead you get options to purchase Robux and the most you can redeem is about ~$16, so then you have left over cash and have to get another gift card. Dark pattern.
- codebje 8mo ago
  There's an option buried somewhere in there to convert left-over real dollars into robux. They don't make it too prominent else no-one would be sitting there looking at the expensive robux options that offer (mostly, but NOT always!) a better exchange rate. Scams and grifts from top to bottom.
- bstsb 8mo ago
  visit this page and click the bright blue, prominent button labeled "Convert to Robux": https://www.roblox.com/my/account#!/billing https://www.roblox.com/my/account#!/billing you will receive the exact amount you would get from the equivalent conversion rate of the closest "package"
  - consp 8mo ago
    Assuming this works like any other tiered package system, wouldn't this make you still lose more money due to the lower tiers being less efficient?
    - Heliodex 8mo ago
      Not really. The lower tiers are only less efficient on platforms that require purchase through an app store or other payment processor that takes a large cut. Buying through a gift card or through the Roblox website or non-Microsoft Store PC app gives more Robux for the same price <https://www.roblox.com/upgrades/robux https://www.roblox.com/upgrades/robux>. These increased rates are also balanced to prevent the lower tiers from being less efficient: the package for 800 goes to 1000, whereas 10 000 goes to 11 000.
- 8mo ago
tracker1 8mo ago
I'm not sure what it would take and/or how the reaction would be to 3rd party "bank" player(s) inside the game offering real exchange rates sitting in between and suing if Robox killed their account and took their "Robux" with it. Assuming players can exchange Robux inside the game without issue.. I'm guessing they take a cut on all transactions, which is kinda sus/garbage itself.
numpad0 8mo ago
> They pay a lot less than it costs to buy Robux I don't understand why that isn't regulated to hell by all sorts of securities and banking laws, with reporting requirements and background checks and eKYC and mandatory reserves and all that. If the poker chips can be transferred and then cashed, I don't think that's allowed in most gambling laws. That's way past gambling.
- Heliodex 8mo ago
  Are you using gambling as an example here? I don't fully understand the relation. There isn't any way to gamble Robux for more Robux on the platform, and in the cases which are arguable (such as on-platform item trading), the money must be transferred through Roblox's Developer Exchange programme, which can't be done for Robux not earned directly from experiences. If I understand what you mean correctly, then any Robux transferred between 2 users wouldn't be able to be cashed or exchanged for fiat for the same reason as above. If they can try to fake it by selling avatar items or experience products to another user, they would immediately be hit with the usual 30% marketplace fee, then have to attempt to get through manual DevEx review with what is very obviously a suspicious set of transactions. The reason they're not scrutinised by security and banking laws is because the Roblox platform and economic system are carefully designed so that such abuse is neither profitable nor feasible, and as such there's nothing to uncover in any potential investigation.

Heliodex 8mo ago

The 2 videos linked here are nearing 5 years old now and have been refuted many times, including by some of the developers mentioned in the article. To condense it as much as possible: The 1st video hinges on a point where they find that developers earn a revenue cut of 24.5%, a number that isn't correct because 1. it's found by multiplying 3 arbitrarily chosen numbers together (the DevEx rate, the default sales fee, and the mean price of Robux) which isn't representative of what the average developer is earning and barely appears in the actual cash flow on the platform, 2. it's using the DevEx rates and sales fees from 2021. Today, DevEx rates are higher and fees are lower. Engagement-based payouts are not accounted for here either (which are also much higher than they were in 2021). 3. it's profit, not revenue. The expenses are paid for before the money is paid out. Comparing this to other platforms that offer revenue shares instead is misrepresentative. The 2nd video hinges more on moderation, showing how children are exploited by bringing them off platform, namely to Discord, where most of the evidence referenced in the video takes place. Broadly, this is Discord's problem, not Roblox's. They then suggest Unity as an alternative platform, which I personally think is a much worse option. I used to be more cynical about this and believe the video creators were clearly being pushed by companies that had a financial incentive in the downfall of Roblox, though nowadays I just attribute it to bad journalism and watchbait. I suggest reading EcoScratcher's brilliant response <https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/7e1c1f0fc493 https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/7e1c1f0fc493> and follow-up articles <https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/e51651da6bf4 https://medium.com/@ecoscratcher/e51651da6bf4>, of which their 2nd video briefly mentions and claims it misquotes (it doesn't) and misrepresents (it doesn't) their position. Edits in response to parent comment edits: > They pay a lot less than it costs to buy Robux, further incentivising you to never actually make real money, because your Robux is "worth more" inside the Roblox walled garden Specifically through the DevEx programme, Roblox pays a small amount less than it costs to buy Robux to enable them to pay for server upkeep, platform hosting & support, and app store fees (when a developer's game is available through an app store, the app store fees for purchases are paid by Roblox). The rest (any Robux taken out of the economy, including that spent on advertising or first-party avatar items) goes towards platform investment and employee costs. > This is on top of the 75% cut they take! The DevEx rates have already been factored into this inaccurate "75%" figure. Taking the DevEx rates out a 2nd time (which, emphatically, never happens on the platform) makes it more inaccurate. The actual figure, calculated at <https://create.roblox.com/docs/monetize-experiences https://create.roblox.com/docs/monetize-experiences>, is 67% given to developers per in-experience dollar spent, making for a near industry-standard 33% cut. And even this is underrepresentative due to being published before the September 2025 DevEx increase.

Sebguer 8mo ago
[flagged]
Retric 8mo ago
> making for a near industry-standard 33% cut. LIES, from that link: “On average, 67% of all spending in experiences supports OR goes to developers.” Supports here does not actually mean they get paid that money. Later it mentions the actual money going to developers as: “This enables us to return 28%* directly to the developers.” And yes that 28% includes an asterisk. That’s a 72% cut to the platform.
- bhawks 8mo ago
  You're missing the parts where: 1: Roblox hosts your multiplayer gameservers in its pops for free, with a generous amount of free persistent storage and memory 1.a: Roblox handles scaling and SRE work for you for free - you're not going to be able to support millions of concurrent users yourself at that price point 2: when people buy robux on their phone the app store takes 20-30% of the dollar - but the player still gets 1 robux for each penny. 2.a: your game immediately is playable on iOS, android, PC, Mac, Xbox, PlayStation, questvr, etc etc - no fees for you to get this distribution. 3: Roblox pays out creator rewards - a redistribution of revenue - to experiences that reengage dormant users or are played by paying users even if your game itself has no purchasable items. Roblox's economic model has a redistributive nature that isn't common in other economies. If you're just looking at the devex rate and not building on the platform you wouldn't immediately appreciate it.
  - fragmede 8mo ago
    72% cut's still pretty steep for all that. Like, these aren't large corporations Roblox is working with, it's kids. It's their platform, and they get to charge whatever they want, and kids can choose not to use it, but 72% still seems exploitative to me. Not a parent tho.
    - WaxProlix 8mo ago

vzchmidt0 8mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

anileated 8mo ago

CEO of Roblox was once asked whether he would ever put prediction markets inside Roblox, he gave a straight face answer: https://youtu.be/XpIXRgMlPo4?t=2122 https://youtu.be/XpIXRgMlPo4?t=2122

tovej 8mo ago
Jesus Christ. This man is just a sociopath who doesn't bother to mask anymore.
- popcorncowboy 8mo ago
  Eventually the money just inures you.
Lutger 8mo ago
Brilliant conversation. "Would you let kids gamble?" - "It sounds very fun and obvious." "To be clear, we think it's a horrible idea!"
- embedding-shape 8mo ago
  And then of course he continues (although won't make for a good social media rage point so understandable you didn't provide full context): > Well, I actually think it's a brilliant idea if it can be done in an educational way that's legal. > no free Robux, no free prizes, just a game called the dress to impress predictor where it's not like trying to get kids money or anything like that. Still, probably what he sees in his mind is "more money yay" as always, he is a CEO of a for-profit company, that's what they do. But still felt disingenuous not to include the full context, doesn't even make it "that much better", he still seems like a scumbag with it.
  - pastage 8mo ago
    We can mince his words. In the end anyone who organize gambling for profit is scum. If you do it for charity I know form experience it is massively profitable, but.. I am not sure it is worth it for society.

_ink_ 8mo ago

> Robux - has very, very different exchange rates, depending on whether you want to buy Robux from the company, or you want to get a payout and convert your Robux to real money. Wtf? That should not be legal.

roysting 8mo ago
The best you could hope for is regulation of the delta or maybe enforcement of markets. The problem is really that such abuse is a kind of debt bondage, you have no other choices but essentially the Roblox company store. It’s a newish form of the same abuse due to the nature of tech, game addiction, and the decay of culture and society; but it’s also why society has not developed a response against that particular practice any more than the corrosive and addicting nature of “games” that are essentially not much different than gambling, only more legal and across a wider user base. I have a theory that much of the gambling industry in the USA has atrophied because the “investors”, aka, the corrupts and rotten people of the gambling industry that are/came from organized crime, have moved into “gaming”. I have specific reason to believe that was a general trend beyond specific cases. For example, people who’s job was to develop extremely addicting slot machine “games” both visually and in their manipulation of addiction patterns, i.e., how to push and milk someone to the limit before they can be pulled back into the gamblers fallacy. But now I’ve gotten way off topic…but not really. It’s all dark, evil patterns; using game addiction to exploit the capture through debt bondage.
- TedDoesntTalk 8mo ago
  It’s not debt bondage in Roblox. It’s company scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
  - amiga386 8mo ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRh0QiXyZSk You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store

stavros 8mo ago

Isn't there a secondary market for Robux that then sells for much better prices?

sghitbyabazooka 8mo ago
that also has a cap, you're not getting more than $6 per 1000 robux there, which is a little under double the official rate but still only 2 thirds of what users actually paid for said robux. not including the risk of the platform banning you.
- jiggunjer 8mo ago
  You're implying I can buy 1000 rbx for 10 usd. But I have been paying 5 times that in my country... So is the cash out rate also variable by country?
  - sghitbyabazooka 8mo ago
    i picked the 10k robux for $100 package as the baseline - the grey market has never reached that ceiling. no, when cashing out, 1 robux is 1 robux, doesn't matter what currency you paid for it. an exception was if the robux was old, from the period where you could trade tix (free) for robux, but i don't think that applies anymore

coryrc 8mo ago

What percentage of real-world money paid to Google goes out to Google SWEs? (This is not to dismiss the roblox concerns, it's a "yes-and")

KellyCriterion 8mo ago

I guess thats the reason why they are a billion-doll-marketcap company by today? Didnt know about these asymmetries within payin/payout: This is like a casino where I have an "exchange rate for their chips"?

casey2 8mo ago

Yup, so many people focused on sexual exploitation that they ignore the traditional exploitation. Doesn't look any better when you realize ALL sexual exploitation is downwind of this financial one.

amelius 8mo ago

> (...) puff pieces in the news talking about how people who make games for them strike it rich!!!! They don't mention that to do so, you first have to become popular amongst millions of competing titles, and the easiest way to do it is to pay them so they'll advertise it for you. Sounds an awful lot like the AppStore, to be honest.

morelandjs 8mo ago

It’s depressing how many lucrative big tech (FAANG/Unicorn) jobs are effectively scams with business glitter on top. And it’s not always obvious unless you really sit down during the interview process and scrutinize the business model.

giarc 8mo ago

My kids play Roblox and get often get gift cards from friends for birthday presents etc. I've always hated that a gift card for $20 can't be redeemed for the equivalent Robux. Instead you get options to purchase Robux and the most you can redeem is about ~$16, so then you have left over cash and have to get another gift card. Dark pattern.

codebje 8mo ago
There's an option buried somewhere in there to convert left-over real dollars into robux. They don't make it too prominent else no-one would be sitting there looking at the expensive robux options that offer (mostly, but NOT always!) a better exchange rate. Scams and grifts from top to bottom.
bstsb 8mo ago
visit this page and click the bright blue, prominent button labeled "Convert to Robux": https://www.roblox.com/my/account#!/billing https://www.roblox.com/my/account#!/billing you will receive the exact amount you would get from the equivalent conversion rate of the closest "package"
- consp 8mo ago
  Assuming this works like any other tiered package system, wouldn't this make you still lose more money due to the lower tiers being less efficient?
  - Heliodex 8mo ago
    Not really. The lower tiers are only less efficient on platforms that require purchase through an app store or other payment processor that takes a large cut. Buying through a gift card or through the Roblox website or non-Microsoft Store PC app gives more Robux for the same price <https://www.roblox.com/upgrades/robux https://www.roblox.com/upgrades/robux>. These increased rates are also balanced to prevent the lower tiers from being less efficient: the package for 800 goes to 1000, whereas 10 000 goes to 11 000.
8mo ago

tracker1 8mo ago

I'm not sure what it would take and/or how the reaction would be to 3rd party "bank" player(s) inside the game offering real exchange rates sitting in between and suing if Robox killed their account and took their "Robux" with it. Assuming players can exchange Robux inside the game without issue.. I'm guessing they take a cut on all transactions, which is kinda sus/garbage itself.

numpad0 8mo ago

> They pay a lot less than it costs to buy Robux I don't understand why that isn't regulated to hell by all sorts of securities and banking laws, with reporting requirements and background checks and eKYC and mandatory reserves and all that. If the poker chips can be transferred and then cashed, I don't think that's allowed in most gambling laws. That's way past gambling.

Heliodex 8mo ago
Are you using gambling as an example here? I don't fully understand the relation. There isn't any way to gamble Robux for more Robux on the platform, and in the cases which are arguable (such as on-platform item trading), the money must be transferred through Roblox's Developer Exchange programme, which can't be done for Robux not earned directly from experiences. If I understand what you mean correctly, then any Robux transferred between 2 users wouldn't be able to be cashed or exchanged for fiat for the same reason as above. If they can try to fake it by selling avatar items or experience products to another user, they would immediately be hit with the usual 30% marketplace fee, then have to attempt to get through manual DevEx review with what is very obviously a suspicious set of transactions. The reason they're not scrutinised by security and banking laws is because the Roblox platform and economic system are carefully designed so that such abuse is neither profitable nor feasible, and as such there's nothing to uncover in any potential investigation.