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>"The judge frames the red light camera scheme as a revenue generating scheme, not a public safety measure." In my own experience, when they took down the red
by htx80nerd 7mo ago
>"The judge frames the red light camera scheme as a revenue generating scheme, not a public safety measure."
In my own experience, when they took down the red light cameras in my area now people are not afraid to run red lights ~2 to ~3 seconds after it's red. See this kind of thing on a regular basis. Every now and then there's a serious accident.
- giantg2 7mo agoThe objective evidence indicates that accidents tend to go up after red light cameras go up, generally because the operators lower the yellow light time to increase fees.
- advisedwang 7mo agoNeither of you share any references for the objective facts you claim to be stating. At least link an article or a study.
- themafia 7mo agoSo the objective evidence indicates that yellow light timing is the most important factor in reducing accidents. Why are we discussing cameras?
- kshacker 7mo agocan this not be regulated? yellow light timing must not have changed for the last 12 months before adding cameras
- giantg2 7mo agoBetter to set it using a standard such as 1 second per 10mph of speed limit.
- hamdingers 7mo agoThe objective evidence shows an increase in rear-end crashes but a reduction in injury and fatal crashes, offering a net overall benefit. Council et al., 2005 -- https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05048/05048.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05048/...
- giantg2 7mo agoThis states that there are many variables they were not able to control for, such as the yellow light timing, as I previously mentioned. Warning signs were another major factor. There doesn't appear to be enough investigation into the protected left issue. This is pretty damning, in my opinion. AKA we did some cheap analysis on a small dataset, without confidence or effect size, and just agree with the people running the programs. "The intent of the multivariate regression analysis was to confirm the direction of the effect, not to establish effects with statistical significance or to assess the size of the effect. To undertake analyses for these purer purposes would have required a substantially larger database, much more precision in the estimate of economic effect at each site, and more accurate specification and measurement of the independent variables. For the purposes of this current investigation, it suffices that both the univariate and multivariate analyses are reasonably in accord with the perceptions that are commonly held by those involved in red-light-camera programs."
- LorenPechtel 7mo agoThere's a regression to the mean issue at work. Sometimes an intersection simply has bad luck, draws more accidents than anything about it would cause. Put a camera there, you'll see an "improvement".
- SecretDreams 7mo agoOne might argue the intersection itself is the problem and should be redesigned, as well as adjoining roadways feeding into the offending intersection.
- LorenPechtel 7mo agoIf it's consistently high something needs fixing. But accidents are random, there will always be some intersections that by pure chance have more accidents. Put cameras on those, presto, cameras "work".
- deleted 7mo ago
- croes 7mo agoMaybe people should brake on yellow lights.
- digitalPhonix 7mo ago> generally because the operators lower the yellow light time to increase fees I'm skeptical of this claim because the red light camera operators are usually contracted by municipalities. They don't have any direct control over the light cycles. (Yes, obviously they can be in cahoots with the municipality, but I would be surprised if that was common and not the exception) Do you have any evidence of this?
- 1123581321 7mo agoChicago is one publicized example. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/10/chicago-shortens-yellow-lights-ticket-standard-makes-8-million-off-new-tickets.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/10/chicago-shortens...
- digitalPhonix 7mo agoI am chosing, perhaps naively, that the Chicago red light cameras are an exception and not common because that whole process was criminal: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-redflex-ceo-sentenced-30-months-corruption-awarding-chicago-s-red-light-camera https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/former-redflex-ceo-sent...
- 1123581321 7mo agoThat I couldn’t say. It at least provides a model. Most city or county governments have some influence over their traffic engineering or streets staff as far as high level planning concerns.
- AdamN 7mo agoI feel like when these tickets are struck down it's still smart to send notices to the homes of the cars doing this in more of a shaming way - even if the fine itself isn't legal. I suspect it would increase safety a small amount just by doing that. Fines (and points) are better of course.