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I have some Euro friends that went to Dubai instead because the USA is “too dangerous” right now. I wish them safe passage back, but yeesh talk about irrational

by nemo44x 7mo ago

I have some Euro friends that went to Dubai instead because the USA is “too dangerous” right now. I wish them safe passage back, but yeesh talk about irrational perspective.

gambiting 7mo ago
I mean yeah, that's a dumb choice, for sure - but our company rescheduled all work events from their normal location in US to Montreal, Canada. Hundreds of people each. Sure, a small drop in the ocean, but I'm sure we're not the only ones.
- nemo44x 7mo ago
  [flagged]
- orwin 7mo ago
  Yeah, my company delegation to a Vegas Conference (i don't know what they really do there tbh) got cut from 18 to two, with newly calibrated phone and empty laptops: no biometrics, no private keys, nothing, they don't even have access to their usual mail and have special addresses created just for the occasion. I think trust is _very_ low.
melenaboija 7mo ago
Yeah tough choice right now, don't know which one is more autocratic and oligarchic.
dmos62 7mo ago
Are you implying they knew that Iran would get bombed and would in retaliation bomb everyone across the Persian gulf?
- wat10000 7mo ago
  They definitely should have been aware that it's a significant risk. It can't be predicted with certainty, but it was pretty obvious that there's a good possibility of something kicking off. I occasionally take trips where flights connecting in Dubai would otherwise be a good option, but I won't do it. Partly because I'm the wrong ethnicity (yeah, UAE is buddy-buddy with Israel now... so was Iran before the revolution), but the risk of war breaking out is a big part it. It's not like this is the first time in recent history that region has been somewhat unsafe for travelers. Or the second time, or third, or fiftieth.
- Kwpolska 7mo ago
  There were rumours about those things, and some western countries issued travel advisories a few days before. Either way, Dubai is not a good place to go, no matter what bribed influencers tell you.
- nemo44x 7mo ago
  I’m implying that going anywhere in the Middle East (or a good deal of the world) has far more risk than going to the USA.
xp84 7mo ago
Maybe they mean dangerous as in the opposite of “emotional safety” - the greatest actual, real-life danger of coming to the US as a tourist (who isn’t trying to do crimes or sneakily overstay your visa) is still being offended. Compare this to Mexico where you might be kidnapped by cartels, or the Middle East where… things aren’t as safe right now. You can definitely blame us for that in the most immediate sense, but a case can be made that if Iran does choose to be different the region will be more safe eventually.
Al-Khwarizmi 7mo ago
I'm not a big fan of Dubai, but it used to be a really safe travel destination, at least for male travelers. A month or two ago there was no reason to assume it would be otherwise. BTW, the irony is that they decided not to go to the US, but they are victims of the danger caused by the US anyway.
- bitcurious 7mo ago
  I enjoy Dubai, but it’s is part of a state where showing a stranger the middle finger is punishable with jail and deportation, nevermind an expat criticism the emirs. It’s pretty telling to consider that safe but to be afraid of showing your passport to CBP.
  - bdangubic 7mo ago
    All we gotta do is show passport to the CBP and that's it, we get in? All people avoiding travel to the USA are doing so because they have a bad photo in their passport? :)
    - bitcurious 7mo ago
      Statistically, yes. Take a boogeyman from this thread - electronic device searches. Less than 0.01% of travelers to the US have their electronics screened. A similarly small fraction of travelers get turned away at the border. It's remarkable how big of a story it is for how much of a non-story it is, especially when you consider the fact that similar laws exists in the UK, France, most of the Middle East, East Asia, and more. The only story here is that America is (regretfully) becoming more like the rest of the world.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 7mo ago
    I'm not defending their regime or implying that they have more freedom than in the US, but from the purely practical perspective of a traveler, the fact is that it's much easier and less disruptive to avoid showing anyone the middle finger or criticize the local government during a short trip than to go through social network profiles, IM conversations, etc. to remove any memes or negative opinions about Trump or the US. In short, the thing is that countries like UAE are predictable. Follow their laws and don't mess with them, and they won't mess with you. The US has become unpredictable, hence more dangerous.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 7mo ago
To me this seems pretty rational? I still don't think the US is more dangerous in an absolute sense than many places, but there's reason to hope that in a couple years the US will stop putting random unlucky tourists in ICE torture facilities. So if you don't have a strong preference about when you visit you might as well wait. Dubai is unlikely to stop being a conservative monarchy with harsh criminal laws in a volatile region.
jacquesm 7mo ago
You're a great friend to your friends. FWIW: Dubai is unsafe because of the USA. They thought they were out of that sphere of influence unfortunately right now all bets are off, even Iceland and Cuba are not safe.

by nemo44x 7mo ago

I have some Euro friends that went to Dubai instead because the USA is “too dangerous” right now. I wish them safe passage back, but yeesh talk about irrational perspective.

gambiting 7mo ago

I mean yeah, that's a dumb choice, for sure - but our company rescheduled all work events from their normal location in US to Montreal, Canada. Hundreds of people each. Sure, a small drop in the ocean, but I'm sure we're not the only ones.

nemo44x 7mo ago
[flagged]
orwin 7mo ago
Yeah, my company delegation to a Vegas Conference (i don't know what they really do there tbh) got cut from 18 to two, with newly calibrated phone and empty laptops: no biometrics, no private keys, nothing, they don't even have access to their usual mail and have special addresses created just for the occasion. I think trust is _very_ low.

melenaboija 7mo ago

Yeah tough choice right now, don't know which one is more autocratic and oligarchic.

dmos62 7mo ago

Are you implying they knew that Iran would get bombed and would in retaliation bomb everyone across the Persian gulf?

wat10000 7mo ago
They definitely should have been aware that it's a significant risk. It can't be predicted with certainty, but it was pretty obvious that there's a good possibility of something kicking off. I occasionally take trips where flights connecting in Dubai would otherwise be a good option, but I won't do it. Partly because I'm the wrong ethnicity (yeah, UAE is buddy-buddy with Israel now... so was Iran before the revolution), but the risk of war breaking out is a big part it. It's not like this is the first time in recent history that region has been somewhat unsafe for travelers. Or the second time, or third, or fiftieth.
Kwpolska 7mo ago
There were rumours about those things, and some western countries issued travel advisories a few days before. Either way, Dubai is not a good place to go, no matter what bribed influencers tell you.
nemo44x 7mo ago
I’m implying that going anywhere in the Middle East (or a good deal of the world) has far more risk than going to the USA.

xp84 7mo ago

Maybe they mean dangerous as in the opposite of “emotional safety” - the greatest actual, real-life danger of coming to the US as a tourist (who isn’t trying to do crimes or sneakily overstay your visa) is still being offended. Compare this to Mexico where you might be kidnapped by cartels, or the Middle East where… things aren’t as safe right now. You can definitely blame us for that in the most immediate sense, but a case can be made that if Iran does choose to be different the region will be more safe eventually.

Al-Khwarizmi 7mo ago

I'm not a big fan of Dubai, but it used to be a really safe travel destination, at least for male travelers. A month or two ago there was no reason to assume it would be otherwise. BTW, the irony is that they decided not to go to the US, but they are victims of the danger caused by the US anyway.

bitcurious 7mo ago
I enjoy Dubai, but it’s is part of a state where showing a stranger the middle finger is punishable with jail and deportation, nevermind an expat criticism the emirs. It’s pretty telling to consider that safe but to be afraid of showing your passport to CBP.
- bdangubic 7mo ago
  All we gotta do is show passport to the CBP and that's it, we get in? All people avoiding travel to the USA are doing so because they have a bad photo in their passport? :)
  - bitcurious 7mo ago
    Statistically, yes. Take a boogeyman from this thread - electronic device searches. Less than 0.01% of travelers to the US have their electronics screened. A similarly small fraction of travelers get turned away at the border. It's remarkable how big of a story it is for how much of a non-story it is, especially when you consider the fact that similar laws exists in the UK, France, most of the Middle East, East Asia, and more. The only story here is that America is (regretfully) becoming more like the rest of the world.
- Al-Khwarizmi 7mo ago
  I'm not defending their regime or implying that they have more freedom than in the US, but from the purely practical perspective of a traveler, the fact is that it's much easier and less disruptive to avoid showing anyone the middle finger or criticize the local government during a short trip than to go through social network profiles, IM conversations, etc. to remove any memes or negative opinions about Trump or the US. In short, the thing is that countries like UAE are predictable. Follow their laws and don't mess with them, and they won't mess with you. The US has become unpredictable, hence more dangerous.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

SpicyLemonZest 7mo ago

To me this seems pretty rational? I still don't think the US is more dangerous in an absolute sense than many places, but there's reason to hope that in a couple years the US will stop putting random unlucky tourists in ICE torture facilities. So if you don't have a strong preference about when you visit you might as well wait. Dubai is unlikely to stop being a conservative monarchy with harsh criminal laws in a volatile region.

jacquesm 7mo ago

You're a great friend to your friends. FWIW: Dubai is unsafe because of the USA. They thought they were out of that sphere of influence unfortunately right now all bets are off, even Iceland and Cuba are not safe.