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I've been feeling this a lot I don't know what I'm going to do next but I have very little interest in or respect for LLM assisted coding, so I think the indus

I've been feeling this a lot I don't know what I'm going to do next but I have very little interest in or respect for LLM assisted coding, so I think the industry is likely not a good place for me anymore If I could retire I would but I'm not quite 40. I don't have the savings to stop working now. So I'll figure out something new I guess What a bummer. I loved my career to this point and I'm very sad that LLMs have ruined it I guess I'm glad I'm not alone in this

hyperhello 8mo ago
What have they ruined, exactly? You can do all the same things you used to, can’t you?
- bluefirebrand 8mo ago
  I'm not spending my precious time on this earth reviewing code from my coworkers that they couldn't be bothered to write without using LLMs And that's really just the tip of the iceberg. LLM usage metrics being introduced by management to ensure the licenses they pay for are being used. New productivity metrics that require LLMs and low standards to reach, and that's before we even get into my ethical problems with the technology So, yes. Their existence is ruining my love for technology
  - hyperhello 8mo ago
    I mean, if it’s that bad they’ll be released from service at your company, and you’ll be recognized as superior. This only helps you.
    - bluefirebrand 8mo ago
      In my experience management only cares about velocity, not quality. I believe this is pretty universal across the industry When hand writing code we could strike a tolerable balance between quality and velocity. With LLM coding we cannot. Velocity is high, quality is low. I don't believe there is any fixing that despite what the many LLM coding shills on this website would have you believe
  - hellojesus 8mo ago
    My coworkers have started writing code with copilot. It's kind of okay but also not really. I've been enjoying teaching them how the things they're producing with llms work, because they have no idea and constantly break their builds because of it. And at the same time it helps me improve my craft because I get to refine the bits of which I don't have full understanding as well as see some implementations I wouldn't have voluntarily chosen previously, which allows me to explore their benefits and limitations. Llms actually make this process slightly less painful because at least now when I send them away to work for the day they have something to review when we next meet vs. pre-llm days when they would basically have wrote nothing because they were stuck. I still don't use llms to code beyond whatever search providers autoprovide when I'm looking up documentation. I don't think I'm good enough to use them. Maybe one day. But for now I don't have to because I'm not facing the breadlines for writing things myself.
- chickenimprint 8mo ago
  You can't get paid doing them. If coding goes away, decades of experience become worthless instantly. Not all of it, but the vast majority, enough to justify starting over in another career. In that world, it will have become more cost-effective for most companies to spend most of their budget on inference vendors and employ a few low-paid LLM wranglers, even if the final output is of terrible quality. No point in competing for that kind of employment experience with that kind of pay.
  - dasil003 8mo ago
    I really don't get this point of view at all. I acknowledge that two yours into my quarter century of experience, most of what I knew was easily replaceable by the AI of today. After two decades of experience however, syntax and specific algorithm and language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. The idea that low-paid LLM wranglers are going to push out the experienced engineers just doesn't wash. What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces, but the remaining ones actually get paid more, because writing code is no longer the long pole, and having fewer minds designing the system at a high level will allow for more cohesive higher-level design, and less focus on local artesenal code quality. To be honest AI is just the catalyst and excuse for overhiring that happened due to the gold rush over the last 20 years related to the internet and smart phone revolutions, zero-interest rate, and pandemic effect.
    - bluefirebrand 8mo ago
      > What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces So you just believe you'll be one of the ones left behind? Best of luck to you
    - tetris11 8mo ago
      > language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. Do you not see LLM's catching up with your experience fast? You might not lose your job, but you'll definitely have to take a pay cut
    - 8mo ago
adampunk 8mo ago
Are you replying to the right post? This post is about someone excited to learn again. Straight up, why aren’t you excited to learn?
- bluefirebrand 8mo ago
  I view using LLMs as the absolute opposite of learn which is why I'm turned off of them I think I misread this post, though. I initially read it as someone who was excited to leave software and learn something new. Your post made me re-read it, now I'm not sure. Maybe the author is excited to learn a new LLM based workflow. If so, you're right that I have nothing in common with how they feel.
ares623 8mo ago
I've been feeling it too. Up until a few weeks ago, I've been able to successfully avoid using AI at work. But then mandates happened and now I'm being forced to use them. Absolutely no guidance from leadership though. "Just figure it out amongst yourselves". Other folks in the company have similar reservations but I feel I'm the only one who has very strong feelings about it in the "morality" and ethical sense. I just can't ignore what the tech is built upon and is doing to other people. All so people like us can open 20 PRs in a day. PRs that don't even get merged because no one can keep up with reviews. For tickets that before would've been labeled as "not worth it". For a job that wasn't even that hard to begin with. Funny thing is that 1-2 years ago when it was all still new I was more open minded. It was a shiny new tool and naturally I would like to try it out. I was one of the first finding potential use-cases for the team. But the more I looked and learned about it the more I hated it. And I am not a Luddite. Before all of this, I would personally spend my _free_ time using and reading about random and often obscure tools and languages like Lisp, Clojure, Slackware. I'd spend hours curating my Emacs config. I was learning "k8s the hard way" back when it was the hottest tech thing. Does that sound like a Luddite? I don't have the privilege to just pivot to another career so I have no choice but to stick it out. My only consolation is that when my kids are working age in a couple of years, when they ask me what the fuck happened, I can look them in the eye and honestly say that I did what I can and I did not cheer it on.

hyperhello 8mo ago

What have they ruined, exactly? You can do all the same things you used to, can’t you?

bluefirebrand 8mo ago
I'm not spending my precious time on this earth reviewing code from my coworkers that they couldn't be bothered to write without using LLMs And that's really just the tip of the iceberg. LLM usage metrics being introduced by management to ensure the licenses they pay for are being used. New productivity metrics that require LLMs and low standards to reach, and that's before we even get into my ethical problems with the technology So, yes. Their existence is ruining my love for technology
- hyperhello 8mo ago
  I mean, if it’s that bad they’ll be released from service at your company, and you’ll be recognized as superior. This only helps you.
  - bluefirebrand 8mo ago
    In my experience management only cares about velocity, not quality. I believe this is pretty universal across the industry When hand writing code we could strike a tolerable balance between quality and velocity. With LLM coding we cannot. Velocity is high, quality is low. I don't believe there is any fixing that despite what the many LLM coding shills on this website would have you believe
- hellojesus 8mo ago
  My coworkers have started writing code with copilot. It's kind of okay but also not really. I've been enjoying teaching them how the things they're producing with llms work, because they have no idea and constantly break their builds because of it. And at the same time it helps me improve my craft because I get to refine the bits of which I don't have full understanding as well as see some implementations I wouldn't have voluntarily chosen previously, which allows me to explore their benefits and limitations. Llms actually make this process slightly less painful because at least now when I send them away to work for the day they have something to review when we next meet vs. pre-llm days when they would basically have wrote nothing because they were stuck. I still don't use llms to code beyond whatever search providers autoprovide when I'm looking up documentation. I don't think I'm good enough to use them. Maybe one day. But for now I don't have to because I'm not facing the breadlines for writing things myself.
chickenimprint 8mo ago
You can't get paid doing them. If coding goes away, decades of experience become worthless instantly. Not all of it, but the vast majority, enough to justify starting over in another career. In that world, it will have become more cost-effective for most companies to spend most of their budget on inference vendors and employ a few low-paid LLM wranglers, even if the final output is of terrible quality. No point in competing for that kind of employment experience with that kind of pay.
- dasil003 8mo ago
  I really don't get this point of view at all. I acknowledge that two yours into my quarter century of experience, most of what I knew was easily replaceable by the AI of today. After two decades of experience however, syntax and specific algorithm and language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. The idea that low-paid LLM wranglers are going to push out the experienced engineers just doesn't wash. What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces, but the remaining ones actually get paid more, because writing code is no longer the long pole, and having fewer minds designing the system at a high level will allow for more cohesive higher-level design, and less focus on local artesenal code quality. To be honest AI is just the catalyst and excuse for overhiring that happened due to the gold rush over the last 20 years related to the internet and smart phone revolutions, zero-interest rate, and pandemic effect.
  - bluefirebrand 8mo ago
    > What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces So you just believe you'll be one of the ones left behind? Best of luck to you
  - tetris11 8mo ago
    > language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. Do you not see LLM's catching up with your experience fast? You might not lose your job, but you'll definitely have to take a pay cut
  - 8mo ago

adampunk 8mo ago

Are you replying to the right post? This post is about someone excited to learn again. Straight up, why aren’t you excited to learn?

bluefirebrand 8mo ago
I view using LLMs as the absolute opposite of learn which is why I'm turned off of them I think I misread this post, though. I initially read it as someone who was excited to leave software and learn something new. Your post made me re-read it, now I'm not sure. Maybe the author is excited to learn a new LLM based workflow. If so, you're right that I have nothing in common with how they feel.

ares623 8mo ago

I've been feeling it too. Up until a few weeks ago, I've been able to successfully avoid using AI at work. But then mandates happened and now I'm being forced to use them. Absolutely no guidance from leadership though. "Just figure it out amongst yourselves". Other folks in the company have similar reservations but I feel I'm the only one who has very strong feelings about it in the "morality" and ethical sense. I just can't ignore what the tech is built upon and is doing to other people. All so people like us can open 20 PRs in a day. PRs that don't even get merged because no one can keep up with reviews. For tickets that before would've been labeled as "not worth it". For a job that wasn't even that hard to begin with. Funny thing is that 1-2 years ago when it was all still new I was more open minded. It was a shiny new tool and naturally I would like to try it out. I was one of the first finding potential use-cases for the team. But the more I looked and learned about it the more I hated it. And I am not a Luddite. Before all of this, I would personally spend my _free_ time using and reading about random and often obscure tools and languages like Lisp, Clojure, Slackware. I'd spend hours curating my Emacs config. I was learning "k8s the hard way" back when it was the hottest tech thing. Does that sound like a Luddite? I don't have the privilege to just pivot to another career so I have no choice but to stick it out. My only consolation is that when my kids are working age in a couple of years, when they ask me what the fuck happened, I can look them in the eye and honestly say that I did what I can and I did not cheer it on.