5 ms·

> This is a major challenge to Microsoft. > Other than Microsoft nobody even makes decent laptops in the Windows world. I get the impression that microsoft an

> This is a major challenge to Microsoft. > Other than Microsoft nobody even makes decent laptops in the Windows world. I get the impression that microsoft and the pc world have given up on consumer hardware and instead are completely focused on enterprise and ai. That's why windows 11 is saturated with bugs and is basically unusable, but enterprise is forced to buy it.

thewebguyd 7mo ago
It definitely feels that way. Microsoft has made it clear they don't care about the consumer market anymore. Xbox is dying or already dead, they've done nothing with the game studios they acquired, Windows laptop OEMs still ship plastic 1080p crap targeted at general office workers. They'll continue to sell it, because it's effectively free surveillance for them, but they certainly aren't focusing on the consumer market as a target demographic. And with less and less windows-specific apps now a days, there's very little reason for the average user to buy a Windows laptop, especially over this new macbook.
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Indeed they haven't, Microsoft is only one of the biggest publishers in the world, and regardless of XBox the console, Microsoft Games Studios is doing great.
  - hedora 7mo ago
    Are you sure they're doing great? By what metric? What have they produced recently? I found a few lists online and looked at Wikipedia, and their big hits are all > 10-15 years old (or sequels/re-releases). Many of those are decade-old acquisitions of franchises that were ancient at acquisition. Revenue, or forward revenue? Their most recent quarterly games revenue was down 9% YoY. XBox console sales (leading indicator) are down 32%: https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/xbox/microsofts-gaming-division-flounders-while-the-firm-makes-more-money-than-ever-xbox-consoles-sales-drop-32-percent https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/xbox/microsofts-gam... Market share? The top N companies from this list have $197B in annual revenue. MS Studios is toward the top of the list, but they only have 12% market share. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_video_game_companies_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_video_game_com... Distribution and marketing? I wouldn't even know how to buy one of their games. I have a Linux gaming PC, a Mac, a switch, an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and a XBone. We spend a few hundred dollars a year on video games, but I haven't seen anything suggesting any MS studio products work on any of our hardware, or are available on any distribution channels that reach any of our devices. Maybe they're on iPad, iPhone or Android? I haven't checked because we don't use those for gaming. I don't think we're that strange for having zero windows machines. It's down to ~ 30% of web browser market share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... Windows is at ~ 95% of steam market share, so I guess that's one bright point for MS studios. However, many game developers release on Steam and console, so it doesn't imply that 95% of those other studios' customers could run a MS studio game. Customer retention? The last time I plugged the XBone in, I spent 45 minutes screwing with bugs in the account password dialog, finally logged in, and then walked away. I unplugged it for good after the updates completed. In contrast, I spent less time than that installing Linux + Steam on my most recent PC. I guess they dropped support for XBox One at some point? I started having problems with it five years ago. I don't remember a big compatibility-break launch since I purchased it, so I'd expect it to be able to turn on + connect to their servers, or at least run the games it's already downloaded + installed. I do own one MS game that still works: A copy of Minecraft. It took over 8 hours to figure out how to get it stop constantly asking my kids for my master MS account password. That did convince me to actually wipe all data from my Microsoft account, so I guess it was a win.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      Doing great by the amount of game studios owned by Microsoft as a publisher, selling all over the place, especially after the ABK deal. You focus too much on XBox when I haven't mentioned it at all.
- jimbokun 7mo ago
  Probably too late now but maybe they should have spun XBox and the game studios into a separate company.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    Game studios are great, the problem is the multiple meanings of XBox. There is XBox the console, XBox the online store for PC games, XBox the streaming platform, XBox the studios that are first party to the console. Then there are the other studios acquired via Bathesda, ABK, or directly. Finally all roots down under Microsot Gaming Studios as publisher. Among the hardcore fans, they usually only see Xbox as the console.
- zer0zzz 7mo ago
  With any luck, this new computer can usher in an era of folks not having to port anything to windows.
leptons 7mo ago
>That's why windows 11 is saturated with bugs and is basically unusable That's far, far from my experience. What bugs are you talking about that make it "unusable"? I've been on Win11 for years and it's been no problem at all. No bugs that I can think of.
- game_the0ry 7mo ago
  You must be lucky. They have been well-documented. [1] The constant, annoying reminder to sign up for One Drive is enough to drive me crazy and want to throw my device out the window (I am writing this from a windows 11 laptop that I use for experimentation). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46000098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46000098
  - bloomca 7mo ago
    Apple seemed to copy this one exactly as iCloud asks you the same all the time. Honestly these days Linux feels like the only sane platform as you can customize it properly.
    - game_the0ry 7mo ago
      I am a big fan of the command line, but running linux as my daily driver is like trying to daily a kit car -- it breaks all the time and i spend more time than i want fixing it. With macos, i get my beloved command line, nice hardware, and a reliable OS. Win win win.
      - TacticalCoder 7mo ago
        > I am a big fan of the command line, but running linux as my daily driver is like trying to daily a kit car -- it breaks all the time and i spend more time than i want fixing it. Linux powers the entire world. Billions if not tens of billions of devices. It doesn't "break all the time like a kit car". I switched my wife's desktop from Ubuntu to Debian about a year ago and I haven't heard a single complain. Not a single crash. She hardly reboots her computer. The thing is just rock solid and it needs to be: she works from home and she spends 8 hours+ on her (Linux) computer.
hedora 7mo ago
There are some decent-looking AMD + nvidia laptops from Razer. No idea if they run Linux well, or are reliable, but they seem to tick all the spec boxes. For instance, they have a higher resolution than the monitor I owned in 2001. (3200 × 1800 @ 120Hz minimum on their 14"); probably OK battery life if you don't use the discrete GPU. From what I've seen of Win 11 in VMs, it doesn't seem compatible with the phrase "decent laptop". Of course, they start at > $2000.
asimovDev 7mo ago
that really doesn't make sense to me. You need to have people use Windows in everyday life so that they don't need to be retrained when in the workforce for Windows to keep its stranglehold on the enterprise.

thewebguyd 7mo ago

It definitely feels that way. Microsoft has made it clear they don't care about the consumer market anymore. Xbox is dying or already dead, they've done nothing with the game studios they acquired, Windows laptop OEMs still ship plastic 1080p crap targeted at general office workers. They'll continue to sell it, because it's effectively free surveillance for them, but they certainly aren't focusing on the consumer market as a target demographic. And with less and less windows-specific apps now a days, there's very little reason for the average user to buy a Windows laptop, especially over this new macbook.

pjmlp 7mo ago
Indeed they haven't, Microsoft is only one of the biggest publishers in the world, and regardless of XBox the console, Microsoft Games Studios is doing great.
- hedora 7mo ago
  Are you sure they're doing great? By what metric? What have they produced recently? I found a few lists online and looked at Wikipedia, and their big hits are all > 10-15 years old (or sequels/re-releases). Many of those are decade-old acquisitions of franchises that were ancient at acquisition. Revenue, or forward revenue? Their most recent quarterly games revenue was down 9% YoY. XBox console sales (leading indicator) are down 32%: https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/xbox/microsofts-gaming-division-flounders-while-the-firm-makes-more-money-than-ever-xbox-consoles-sales-drop-32-percent https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/xbox/microsofts-gam... Market share? The top N companies from this list have $197B in annual revenue. MS Studios is toward the top of the list, but they only have 12% market share. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_video_game_companies_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_video_game_com... Distribution and marketing? I wouldn't even know how to buy one of their games. I have a Linux gaming PC, a Mac, a switch, an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and a XBone. We spend a few hundred dollars a year on video games, but I haven't seen anything suggesting any MS studio products work on any of our hardware, or are available on any distribution channels that reach any of our devices. Maybe they're on iPad, iPhone or Android? I haven't checked because we don't use those for gaming. I don't think we're that strange for having zero windows machines. It's down to ~ 30% of web browser market share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... Windows is at ~ 95% of steam market share, so I guess that's one bright point for MS studios. However, many game developers release on Steam and console, so it doesn't imply that 95% of those other studios' customers could run a MS studio game. Customer retention? The last time I plugged the XBone in, I spent 45 minutes screwing with bugs in the account password dialog, finally logged in, and then walked away. I unplugged it for good after the updates completed. In contrast, I spent less time than that installing Linux + Steam on my most recent PC. I guess they dropped support for XBox One at some point? I started having problems with it five years ago. I don't remember a big compatibility-break launch since I purchased it, so I'd expect it to be able to turn on + connect to their servers, or at least run the games it's already downloaded + installed. I do own one MS game that still works: A copy of Minecraft. It took over 8 hours to figure out how to get it stop constantly asking my kids for my master MS account password. That did convince me to actually wipe all data from my Microsoft account, so I guess it was a win.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    Doing great by the amount of game studios owned by Microsoft as a publisher, selling all over the place, especially after the ABK deal. You focus too much on XBox when I haven't mentioned it at all.
jimbokun 7mo ago
Probably too late now but maybe they should have spun XBox and the game studios into a separate company.
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  Game studios are great, the problem is the multiple meanings of XBox. There is XBox the console, XBox the online store for PC games, XBox the streaming platform, XBox the studios that are first party to the console. Then there are the other studios acquired via Bathesda, ABK, or directly. Finally all roots down under Microsot Gaming Studios as publisher. Among the hardcore fans, they usually only see Xbox as the console.
zer0zzz 7mo ago
With any luck, this new computer can usher in an era of folks not having to port anything to windows.

leptons 7mo ago

>That's why windows 11 is saturated with bugs and is basically unusable That's far, far from my experience. What bugs are you talking about that make it "unusable"? I've been on Win11 for years and it's been no problem at all. No bugs that I can think of.

game_the0ry 7mo ago
You must be lucky. They have been well-documented. [1] The constant, annoying reminder to sign up for One Drive is enough to drive me crazy and want to throw my device out the window (I am writing this from a windows 11 laptop that I use for experimentation). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46000098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46000098
- bloomca 7mo ago
  Apple seemed to copy this one exactly as iCloud asks you the same all the time. Honestly these days Linux feels like the only sane platform as you can customize it properly.
  - game_the0ry 7mo ago
    I am a big fan of the command line, but running linux as my daily driver is like trying to daily a kit car -- it breaks all the time and i spend more time than i want fixing it. With macos, i get my beloved command line, nice hardware, and a reliable OS. Win win win.
    - TacticalCoder 7mo ago
      > I am a big fan of the command line, but running linux as my daily driver is like trying to daily a kit car -- it breaks all the time and i spend more time than i want fixing it. Linux powers the entire world. Billions if not tens of billions of devices. It doesn't "break all the time like a kit car". I switched my wife's desktop from Ubuntu to Debian about a year ago and I haven't heard a single complain. Not a single crash. She hardly reboots her computer. The thing is just rock solid and it needs to be: she works from home and she spends 8 hours+ on her (Linux) computer.

hedora 7mo ago

There are some decent-looking AMD + nvidia laptops from Razer. No idea if they run Linux well, or are reliable, but they seem to tick all the spec boxes. For instance, they have a higher resolution than the monitor I owned in 2001. (3200 × 1800 @ 120Hz minimum on their 14"); probably OK battery life if you don't use the discrete GPU. From what I've seen of Win 11 in VMs, it doesn't seem compatible with the phrase "decent laptop". Of course, they start at > $2000.

asimovDev 7mo ago

that really doesn't make sense to me. You need to have people use Windows in everyday life so that they don't need to be retrained when in the workforce for Windows to keep its stranglehold on the enterprise.