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Crazy good market segmentation by Apple here - it's pretty easy for college students to justify this plus an iPad, and still have to upgrade to a "real" laptop
by sodality2 7mo ago
Crazy good market segmentation by Apple here - it's pretty easy for college students to justify this plus an iPad, and still have to upgrade to a "real" laptop post-grad.
Personally this looks really compelling for students - I did something similar, dinky 4GB ram 2 core laptop with crazy good battery life - because I don't care about specs at all, LMS's and note-taking apps in school are not heavy. I just NEED to be able to work all day long, when lecture halls lack outlets. If I needed development weight I would just use an IDE plugin to remote to a desktop in my dorm.
Are there any similar laptops around this price range with comparable battery life? My impression is the market around ARM laptops is pretty small. If so this is a standout for this use case.
- wiremine 7mo agoThis. My daughter is a high-school junior, and she's been asking for a laptop going into her senior year/college. This is exactly who Apple is going after.
- TheJoeMan 7mo agoI convinced my parents to get me a 2017 MBP for college, yes it was overkill for the day-to-day classes, but I ended up getting into iOS app development and was so fortunate to have a beefier-system. However, for a liberal-arts student the MBN appears to be a sweet spot.
- pier25 7mo ago> it's pretty easy for college students to justify this plus an iPad Why would you want an iPad? The Neo can run iPad apps and it's small enough that it can be used in most situations where you'd typically use a tablet (bed, couch, etc).
- wpsimon3 7mo agoI used to use both...laptop for quick typing, and then the iPad for hand-written notes or annotation. The OneNote app sync is quick enough that I could type lecture notes on the laptop, and then quickly switch to the same document on my iPad to sketch out a diagram. It was overkill for sure, but very useful
- ToucanLoucan 7mo agoI mean at this point with the latest ones, an iPad Pro with it's keyboard/trackpad accessory and a pencil could probably manage both for you pretty damn well. I just wish they'd let us run MacOS on iPads.
- wpsimon3 7mo agoThat's fair...actually totally slipped my mind that today this would be much more feasible to do on a single device.
- sodality2 7mo agoiPads are pretty common in education for the drawing capabilities. You can take notes by typing for most things, but when you get diagram/math heavy, you just cannot beat the pencil. I think it's probably pretty poor value of the small ability you gain to cost, relative to other things you could do (I like paper/pencil personally) but I see the use case, if limited.
- jazzyjackson 7mo agoHave iPads really replaced paper in college? I haven’t been on campus in a decade so I wouldn’t know
- vikramkr 7mo agoI haven't been on campus in a few years but even then paper was basically absent on campus. A class where a professor wouldn't allow tablets or laptops to take notes would be an aberration and a PITA. I remember I had to write like a paper check once and I had to physically go buy a pen since neither I nor anyone around me had a regular writing utensil on hand. The exception was when people were taking orgo or a diagram heavy class. For that semester not everyone would have a tablet and some people would have pens and pencils. Or writing classes that still required a handwritten essay for the final exam
- vimbtw 7mo agoYes, iPads (at least at my university) are incredibly common. I would guess they’re at least on-par with paper. So many people swear by Goodnotes because you get all the benefits of handwriting your notes without giving up the niceties of search-ability, auto correct, etc. I don’t know anyone who uses any other tablet besides an iPad, they’ve basically conquered the market.
- sprinkly-dust 7mo agoA lot of lower division math and computer science courses now presuppose iPads or other digital pen devices for working through handouts during lecture. Printed handouts are often available at request, but not the expectation / default. On the other hand, I've seen more professors — especially in the humanities, but also upper div CS — start banning devices in lecture partially or altogether. Complete distraction (scrolling Instagram, etc.) during lecture is extremely prevalent, and they keep citing noticeable improvements in engagement after banning devices. This also coincides with a shift back to less take-home assignments and more exam-style assessment since they want greater assurance people aren't completely offloading their cognition to LLMs.
- g947o 7mo ago> The Neo can run iPad apps In theory yes, but in reality barely any developer (at least the mainstream ones) make their app available on MacOS, and nobody enjoys interacting with a touch-screen optimized app with mouse/trackpad
- Cthulhu_ 7mo agoThat's an odd choice (for said developers), given in most cases it's a matter of checking a box. The second half of your comment is a generalization though.
- NotPractical 7mo agoIt makes it easier to pirate your app if you enable that checkbox. macOS attempts to disable iOS apps when SIP is disabled to prevent this but it's not difficult to bypass [1]. I don't necessarily agree with it but this probably does factor into their decision process. [1] https://github.com/paradiseduo/appdecrypt https://github.com/paradiseduo/appdecrypt
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoThat couldn’t be the reason. 90% of App Store revenue comes from in app purchases of consumables from games. This came out in the Epic trial. The rest of the most use apps are front end for services where the app is free. There are very very few one time app purchases on iOS where pirating would make sense
- NotPractical 7mo agoPiracy is not the only risk when someone grabs your app binary, but also cracked versions with ads removed, or subscription checks disabled.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoThey can already grab your binary by using third party tools or by using the Apple Configurator from what I’m seeing. TIL: iPhone backups on computers stopped including full ipa’s back in 2017…
- general_reveal 7mo agoI have spent most of my life in a lazy couch posture and a laptop and keyboard doesn’t fit that lifestyle choice. I need to make more apps for people with my lifestyle choice, like IPad IDEs for development. iPad + voice, this seems like my new lifestyle choice and it looks like it’s going to work out too. I think human beings need to move away from sitting at the typewriter like it’s 1930. We’re more than this.
- Terretta 7mo ago> I need to make more apps for people with my lifestyle choice, like IPad IDEs for development. blink code to codeserver https://docs.blink.sh/advanced/code https://docs.blink.sh/advanced/code
- general_reveal 7mo agoTy!
- asdff 7mo agoLaptop is way nicer for lazy couch work. I can sit there with it on my lap with my arms crossed and I don’t have to waste a hand just holding the damn thing up the entire time I use it. It is the ipad that is actually the nonlazy choice.
- drstewart 7mo ago>Why would you want an iPad? Talk to Gen Z some time. They prefer tablet devices to laptops.
- NoLinkToMe 7mo agoOnly if you want to take notes with a pen and prefer digital over paper. For me that's terrible, but some kids swear by it. I think if I grew up on it, it'd be different. Homework for things like algebra and later calculus definitely is interesting to do on an iPad, as the ratio of time spent thinking:writing is high while you're learning. But pure notetaking where the thinking:writing ratio is very low? I'd much prefer to type than write on a screen.
- bwv848 7mo agoThat's a lot of money for a small amount of use cases, get a $70 Wacom.
- happyopossum 7mo agothe difference between writing on a screen and writing on an external tablet is hard to overstate...
- bwv848 7mo agoA Huion Kamvas then, still way cheaper than an iPad.
- chocochunks 7mo agoA Huion Kamvas is pretty awkward to drag to class or a meeting. Even the smallest ones.
- johanvts 7mo agoNot really, sure it is easier to find your cursor but that is not very hard using an external tablet, and you get much better ergonomics plus you can see what is under your hand.
- satvikpendem 7mo agoNot really, it works just fine and you don't obscure the screen with your hand.
- awkwardpotato 7mo ago> Why would you want an iPad? At this point, there are more people taking notes on an iPad + Apple Pencil than on physical notebooks in my lectures
- lucasverra 7mo agogood info
- crazygringo 7mo agoThe iPad is vastly better for reading and highlighting (with Pencil) class materials. Reading whole books on a laptop tends to produce a ton of neck strain.
- asdff 7mo agoWhy would reading on a laptop produce neck strain? Just sit comfortably.
- pier25 7mo agoThe laptop is better in many situations as the screen stands on its own. When reading in bed I use a stand to hold my Kindle at the best position. I would need a much heavier stand to be able to do that with my iPad.
- crazygringo 7mo agoThe way people use laptops, the screens are generally much lower than they should be for good ergonomics. iPads/Kindles are better because they're smaller and lighter so you can position them with far greater flexibility.
- asdff 7mo agoPeople still hold the ipad at the exact same height against their lap. You mean to tell me they hold it like arm outstretched in front of them? So easy to position my laptop. Edge of couch with screen tilted up, done. On lap of course, done. On table, done. Resting on my back, with the laptop on my chest, done. These things weigh only like 2lbs now. It isn't like 2010 when the ipad came out and the macbook was a good 5-6 awkward lbs and smoking hot.
- crazygringo 7mo agoI don't know what to tell you. I change positions and move my iPad around a lot in ways that I can't do with my Macbook. Whether holding it up while in a recliner or airplane seat, resting it on my belly while in bed or on a couch... also it's in portrait mode which makes a huge difference too, so the top of the screen is higher. It's smaller, it's lighter, it's by definition just way more flexible to use ergonomically. You can position it in lots of ways you can't position a larger 13" horizontal laptop.
- ashton314 7mo agoGrad student here. The paper-reading experience on an iPad is vastly superior to a laptop, and I've got an aging iPad Gen 8 that doesn't have enough storage to upgrade. I run the Zotero iOS app and it's absolutely perfect for annotating papers and keeping my bibliography organized. In undergrad my iPad was far and away my favorite note-taking device. Digital pen-and-"paper" beats laptop for 99% of note taking.
- levl289 7mo agoThe pen. 95% of the way our son does assignments now. He’s off to university in Fall ‘26, and I’m waffling between getting him an Air and keeping his current iPad, or getting a neo and new iPad. Probably go the former because of the long term cost effectiveness of the Air.
- palata 7mo agoMany students nowadays may say "why would you need anything other than an iPad?" :-)
- skelegorg 7mo agoAs a college student, I can't count how many people in my classes exclusively take notes and submit homework through iPads. It's an extremely popular option because you can handwrite notes that you can't type (e.g. following along with a proof)
- scuff3d 7mo agoiPad + the pencil got me all through my engineering degree without having to drag around notebooks or textbooks. To this day it's the only Apple product I've ever owned, and it was worth every penny. I'm sure there are other good tablets for writing now, but at the time there was nothing else even close.
- kelseydh 7mo agoMy wife traded in her Macbook for a laptop. I couldn't believe anybody could live without a proper desktop computer but she proved me wrong. Aced some pretty intense physiology classes just using an iPad + touch pen.
- nolist_policy 7mo ago> Are there any similar laptops around this price range with comparable battery life? A Chromebook with 8Gb ram and stock ChromeOS gets 10 hours doing real work. And with real work I mean full local dev with containers, vscode, Vivado, and 100+ chrome tabs open. And even running small VMs from time to time.
- nolist_policy 7mo agoAlso since this is a A series processor it's not even clear if the MacBook Neo supports virtualization.
- asimovDev 7mo agoisn't there UTM for iOS? Although I heard it's pretty gnarly due to no JIT
- sodality2 7mo agoHm true, I wrote off Chrome OS altogether, does it provide enough customizability that MacOS/Linux does? You mention dev containers which is already way beyond my perception of its capabilities (and the general public, I think)
- nolist_policy 7mo agoSo basically, you install the Linux Dev VM with 5 clicks in the settings. You get a Debian VM with nested virtualization support and seamless Wayland, VirGL and USB passtrough. I don't know MacOS, but comming from Linux customizability was mostly okay. Obviously there was also some getting used to. The desktop environment has decent window management and support for virtual desktops which I use heavily.
- tempaccountabgd 7mo ago[dead]
- pembrook 7mo agoI think this also looks super compelling for people who want to ditch the Macbook Pro. I'm mostly at a desk so I'd love to be able to switch to Mac Mini only when M5-M6 drops on the mini. The problem is I need a laptop for travel, weekend trips, events, etc. The Neo is so cheap that I can buy a new Mac Mini AND the Neo for roughly the price of the macbook pro and get the best of both worlds.
- alexchantavy 7mo agoI still find it funny that for my personal setup I have a $700 Macbook Air but a $1500 iPhone Pro and it feels like it makes sense.
- MrGinkgo 7mo agoI managed to get through 3 years of college (in a humanities degree, granted) with a dinky used thinkpad running the latest ubuntu distro. Only needed it for note taking, pdf reading, and essay writing, and it got the job done for $50. There were only a few times I was screwed when it came to needing special software...
- lern_too_spel 7mo agoFor a student, a Kompanio Ultra Chromebook is a far better deal. The faster processor and more RAM make it better for typical laptop use. The touchscreen makes it better for educational use. It's only $100 more than just the Neo by itself.
- andyferris 7mo agoHonestly I think these will sell well in high schools. Where I am, our primary schools require iPads, the kids want iPhones (and mabye tend to inherit their parents old phones), and now there's a lightweight laptop for high school cheaper and faster and better screen (and I'm hoping with a more robust build) than the slightly-more-expensive 13" windows laptops I've been buying them. The parents will later buy them a macbook air or whatever when they go to college. I think Apple could be onto a winner here, in terms of long-term MacOS uptake.