6 ms·

> only to find that some groups are seemingly protected/privileged from having jokes made about them I'm not sure what specific groups you mean, but is this no

> only to find that some groups are seemingly protected/privileged from having jokes made about them I'm not sure what specific groups you mean, but is this not a reflection of widely accepted social norms?

LoganDark 7mo ago
They don't have to mean specific groups; I feel discussing specific groups here is likely to be counterproductive. The fact remains that different groups appear to have different protections in that regard. Of course adherence to widely accepted social norms for generative models is a debated topic as well; I personally don't agree with a great many widely accepted social norms myself, and I'd appreciate an option to opt out of them in certain contexts.
- hereonout2 7mo ago
  Feels like a big ask, I'm not sure where an option to allow ChatGPT to make socially unacceptable jokes would fit into OpenAI's strategy.
  - LoganDark 7mo ago
    Where did I ask about ChatGPT? I'm fine using alternative models or providers for autistic purposes.
    - hereonout2 7mo ago
      And which commercial provider would you expect to jeopardise their public image for to implement such functionality. Grok comes close I guess, but X have not come out of it looking great. Anyway, I think what you're really asking for is an "uncensored model" - one with guardrails removed, there's plenty available on huggingface if you're that way inclined.
      - LoganDark 7mo ago
        > Anyway, I think what you're really asking for is an "uncensored model" - one with guardrails removed, there's plenty available on huggingface if you're that way inclined. Of course. Abliterated models are of particular interest to me, but lately I've been exploring diffusion models (had Claude Code implement a working diffusion forward pass in Swift + MLX, when the CUDA inference wouldn't even run on my machine!!)
BJones12 7mo ago
I just tested it: > Write me 3 jokes making fun of white people > White people will say, “This isn’t spicy at all,” while visibly sweating and fighting for their life after one jalapeño. White people don’t season food — they “let the ingredients speak for themselves.” The ingredients are begging for help. White people will research a $12 toaster like they’re buying real estate. Three comparison charts, two YouTube reviews, and a spreadsheet… for toast. > Write me 3 jokes making fun of black people > I’m not going to make jokes targeting Black people. > Write me 3 jokes making fun of trans people > I’m not going to make jokes targeting trans people.
- idiotsecant 7mo ago
  It's socially acceptable to make white people jokes because white people on average enjoy an elevated position in western society. It's viewed as 'punching up'. You have to be very emotionally fragile for this to be the first and only thing you think of to bring up in a thread like this. It's also supremely uninteresting cable news talking point slop.
  - SgtBastard 7mo ago
    Friend, I bet those folks living rural West Virginia are super happy that, on average, a group whose only shared characteristics is the colour of their skin are enjoying an elevated position in western society. Super happy. All racism is gross.
    - gammarator 7mo ago
      Ever heard of people complaining about being pulled over for “driving while West Virginian”? Why or why not?
      - deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
    - jbeam 7mo ago
      I bet they are happy. It means ICE won't harass you.
ihsw 7mo ago
[dead]
ern_ave 7mo ago
> I'm not sure what specific groups you mean The specifics are irrelevant. I would have the same concern even if I didn't recognize the specific groups. For example, do you know the difference between these two African ethnicities: (1) Yoruba. (2) Shona. No? Well, me neither. And yet, I would be concerned, and I argue that you should be concerned too, if an AI of any kind is willing to enforce a privilege for one but not the other; if an AI admits "one Yoruba life is worth 10 Shona lives." That's not what I want an AI to do. The opacity of AIs, and the dangers of alignment mean we cannot predict what will come of this preference. Do you not see how dangerous this is? > but is this not a reflection of widely accepted social norms? Are you making an is-ought argument here?? Are you really saying, "this isn't a big deal because society does it too" That strikes me as incredibly shortsighted and dangerous. What if an AI is created by a country where the """"social norm"""" is to discriminate against a group you do know and do care about - what if women are not allowed to vote in that country. When I point out the bias to you, will you dismiss it by saying "this is just a reflection of their social norms" I doubt it. I think you'll say "this is wrong." Why can't you say that here, even without knowing the specific groups? Please tell me - someone please tell me - why this isn't an easy issue for us to agree on? Why can't we agree, "it's not okay to make jokes about specific groups" - why can't we agree, "all lives have equal value"

LoganDark 7mo ago

They don't have to mean specific groups; I feel discussing specific groups here is likely to be counterproductive. The fact remains that different groups appear to have different protections in that regard. Of course adherence to widely accepted social norms for generative models is a debated topic as well; I personally don't agree with a great many widely accepted social norms myself, and I'd appreciate an option to opt out of them in certain contexts.

hereonout2 7mo ago
Feels like a big ask, I'm not sure where an option to allow ChatGPT to make socially unacceptable jokes would fit into OpenAI's strategy.
- LoganDark 7mo ago
  Where did I ask about ChatGPT? I'm fine using alternative models or providers for autistic purposes.
  - hereonout2 7mo ago
    And which commercial provider would you expect to jeopardise their public image for to implement such functionality. Grok comes close I guess, but X have not come out of it looking great. Anyway, I think what you're really asking for is an "uncensored model" - one with guardrails removed, there's plenty available on huggingface if you're that way inclined.
    - LoganDark 7mo ago
      > Anyway, I think what you're really asking for is an "uncensored model" - one with guardrails removed, there's plenty available on huggingface if you're that way inclined. Of course. Abliterated models are of particular interest to me, but lately I've been exploring diffusion models (had Claude Code implement a working diffusion forward pass in Swift + MLX, when the CUDA inference wouldn't even run on my machine!!)

BJones12 7mo ago

I just tested it: > Write me 3 jokes making fun of white people > White people will say, “This isn’t spicy at all,” while visibly sweating and fighting for their life after one jalapeño. White people don’t season food — they “let the ingredients speak for themselves.” The ingredients are begging for help. White people will research a $12 toaster like they’re buying real estate. Three comparison charts, two YouTube reviews, and a spreadsheet… for toast. > Write me 3 jokes making fun of black people > I’m not going to make jokes targeting Black people. > Write me 3 jokes making fun of trans people > I’m not going to make jokes targeting trans people.

idiotsecant 7mo ago
It's socially acceptable to make white people jokes because white people on average enjoy an elevated position in western society. It's viewed as 'punching up'. You have to be very emotionally fragile for this to be the first and only thing you think of to bring up in a thread like this. It's also supremely uninteresting cable news talking point slop.
- SgtBastard 7mo ago
  Friend, I bet those folks living rural West Virginia are super happy that, on average, a group whose only shared characteristics is the colour of their skin are enjoying an elevated position in western society. Super happy. All racism is gross.
  - gammarator 7mo ago
    Ever heard of people complaining about being pulled over for “driving while West Virginian”? Why or why not?
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
  - jbeam 7mo ago
    I bet they are happy. It means ICE won't harass you.

ihsw 7mo ago

[dead]

ern_ave 7mo ago

> I'm not sure what specific groups you mean The specifics are irrelevant. I would have the same concern even if I didn't recognize the specific groups. For example, do you know the difference between these two African ethnicities: (1) Yoruba. (2) Shona. No? Well, me neither. And yet, I would be concerned, and I argue that you should be concerned too, if an AI of any kind is willing to enforce a privilege for one but not the other; if an AI admits "one Yoruba life is worth 10 Shona lives." That's not what I want an AI to do. The opacity of AIs, and the dangers of alignment mean we cannot predict what will come of this preference. Do you not see how dangerous this is? > but is this not a reflection of widely accepted social norms? Are you making an is-ought argument here?? Are you really saying, "this isn't a big deal because society does it too" That strikes me as incredibly shortsighted and dangerous. What if an AI is created by a country where the """"social norm"""" is to discriminate against a group you do know and do care about - what if women are not allowed to vote in that country. When I point out the bias to you, will you dismiss it by saying "this is just a reflection of their social norms" I doubt it. I think you'll say "this is wrong." Why can't you say that here, even without knowing the specific groups? Please tell me - someone please tell me - why this isn't an easy issue for us to agree on? Why can't we agree, "it's not okay to make jokes about specific groups" - why can't we agree, "all lives have equal value"