5 ms·

Cars block the street all the time, there is ample place to pass the waymo car on the left in the opposing lane, yet those SUV driving humans don't care to move

by mxfh 7mo ago

Cars block the street all the time, there is ample place to pass the waymo car on the left in the opposing lane, yet those SUV driving humans don't care to move out of the way either, and police just blocks the maneuver area too. That silver car in the front could also just pass in front and make space. Situational awareness has room to be improved for a lot of entities in this short video. Nueces Street is 3 and half lanes wide there plus massive sidewalks, apparently to narrow for even more massive ambulances. https://maps.app.goo.gl/74jF9iDUCXmm9jVE7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/74jF9iDUCXmm9jVE7

tapoxi 7mo ago
You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here?
- nine_zeros 7mo ago
  [dead]
- KennyBlanken 7mo ago
  The person who was ultimately responsible for a defective robot operating on our public streets, at a bare minimum.
  - general1465 7mo ago
    A customer?
- aduty 7mo ago
  Start disabling and towing their cars and watch a solution magically appear.
- wnevets 7mo ago
  > You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here? That's the best part, no one! We have finally managed to invent a system that widely disperses accountability so much no one can be held liable when something goes wrong.
  - gruez 7mo ago
    >no one can be held liable when something goes wrong. No, at the very least tort laws still apply even if the driver is a corporation. Do you really need someone sitting in jail to satisfy your justice boner?
    - AngryData 7mo ago
      If someone sitting in jail doesn't help solve the problem, then maybe we should remove the jail penalty to for individuals that do it.
      - gruez 7mo ago
        >then maybe we should remove the jail penalty to for individuals that do it. We don't send everyone to jail either. You can run over people and get away scot free, if it's an honest mistake and you weren't being negligent.
        plagiarist 7mo ago
        Or if you were being negligent but due to affluenza.
      - cwmoore 7mo ago
        Yes. Jail sentences are for a selection of some misdemeanors and not others. The person does or cooperates with X amount of harm, they ought to share similar penalties.
    - smeggysmeg 7mo ago
      Yes, I want to see real, serious punishment for corporate crimes, on par with the life disruption experienced by people who see a jail sentence. It's almost always brutal - major income disruption, job loss, etc. If it's a small fine, which it always seems to be for corporations, then there is no incentive for following the law. I'm also in favor of corporate death sentences for large-scale egregious violations - liquidate assets and jail executives. By corporatizing social harms, basically nobody is ever held accountable - except for the little guy.
- musicjerm 7mo ago
  The passenger
- glennpratt 7mo ago
  Nobody gets arrested, you get a ticket.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- cameldrv 7mo ago
  Since corporations are people, presumably you’d arrest Waymo.
- seanmcdirmid 7mo ago
  > You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here? I get that it is technically possible, but that doesn't happen in practice.
- porridgeraisin 7mo ago
  This is the key. Personally I think you just have to something similar to an auditor or whatever. Demand that if a self driving taxi operates in your city, they assign one legally responsible person per $major-division-of-city. All accidents in that region are due to that guy. Naturally, this will incentivise them to improve the system that deals with edge cases in their ML model, and better yet you'll have the legally responsible guy shit himself and directly manage remote drivers for his location himself. Adds another layer of accountability.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
- hulitu 7mo ago
  The CEO
briandw 7mo ago
I don't often see a human driven car parked sideways in the middle of a road (never really). If a human was in that Waymo, they would have moved quickly. I'm an huge fan of Waymo and autonomous vehicles. They save lives. However the fact that Waymo's don't have the sense to move out of the way is a major problem and on that they don't seem to be on track to solve. Incidents like this will delay the adoption of autonomous vehicles and that will cost lives.
- bryanlarsen 7mo ago
  > If a human was in that Waymo, they would have moved quickly. Some humans would have exactly the same response as the Waymo. When a human brain gets completely overwhelmed and doesn't know what to do, it drops down into animal behavior -- freeze or flee. Given that it's a dangerous multi-ton machine, a Waymo likely has a programmed default behavior of "do nothing & phone home for instructions". Which isn't an excuse -- an emergency vehicle is not an uncommon situation and Waymo should know what to do before being allowed on public roads. A failure to get remedy instructions in a timely fashion from a human is even more alarming. Google is famous for automating tasks that should be performed by a human.
- throw4f3234 7mo ago
  A human driver with health problems, or with car issues, might be like this. Similar to the Waymo having an equipment failure.
pigbearpig 7mo ago
Give me a break. The problem is the Waymo that is blocking a lane sideways and is not pulling forward out of the way of the ambulance, a move that even the worst human drivers would likely know to do. It does no good to pretend there aren't problems with self-driving cars or make excuses. It's not about the other entities.
- tt24 7mo ago
  Why are we focusing on entity A when the parent comment correctly pointed out entities B and C are not blameless either?
  - foinker 7mo ago
    We're focusing on the waymo because it did this on its own for some inscrutable reason and there is no individual accountability, which is a far more useful discussion to be having if we are supposed to trust these things to be replacing humans on the road. The humans behavior is only relevant in the sense that now all humans on the road have an additional hazard to factor in: errant waymos that you can't gesture to or yell at or honk at or make any attempt to understand their intentions.
  - Edman274 7mo ago
    Yes, why are we still talking about the robot whose behavior can be programmed and whose behavior is set by a company and rolled out to all of their vehicles deterministically, when another commenter correctly engaged in whataboutism?
  - zadikian 7mo ago
    The other drivers are blameless. They did what they were supposed to.
tokyobreakfast 7mo ago
> there is ample place to pass This is the same excuse a Prius driver would give whilst refusing to abdicate the HOV lane for an ambulance and yes I've sadly seen this scenario play out. Multiple times, in fact. Prius driver seems oddly specific but it always is.
- fennecbutt 7mo ago
  Eh I've seen more SUV/big car drivers act like this than small car drivers, but then I live in the UK. A friend who lived in New York for a bit would never live there again and says driving there was an absolute nightmare; everyone's out for themselves. And you can see it in multiple "drivers react to an ambulance in different countries videos", with America the ambulance is always blocked and going slowly. Compare to Germany where they open up the entire middle of the road by moving to either side.
  - FireBeyond 7mo ago
    Agreed, tbh. In Seattle, the most ritualistic abusers of the HOV lanes are large SUVs and trucks with only a driver in them. Also, ex-paramedic, three cases fairly similar, but the one I found most egregious, was us going lights and sirens on I-5 heading to Harborview, heavy heavy rain. Traffic on the freeway slowly but steadily goes right. Cue a single-occupant Escalade accelerate up, overtake us on the inside and pull into the HOV lane to take advantage of the cleared freeway in front of us. For bonus irony points, licence plate holder: "Don't drive faster than your angels can fly", lady, you just overtook an ambulance in emergency mode. We actually called that one in. Some satisfaction as we rolled by her a few minutes later, pulled over with a state trooper having lit her up, who points at us and shakes his head at her.
    - fennecbutt 7mo ago
      Ha! Always satisfying the few times justice is actually served. And different country, but still thank you for having been a paramedic. World definitely needs more people like you.
happytoexplain 7mo ago
This is a false equivalence and a hideous defense of an entity that deserves nothing but to be spit upon. There is absolutely nothing calling upon you to take this path.
steve-atx-7600 7mo ago
The ambulance driver rightly hesitates because he can’t know how the wamyo will behave. The wanyo is acting suss as hell.
croes 7mo ago
So AI drives as bad as humans. Waste of resources.
zadikian 7mo ago
Waymo car was the only thing at fault. Drivers are expected to stop to the side when they see the lights. I guess the red SUV could've slid behind the Waymo to let the ambulance do the same, but it'd be unwise without the police telling you to do so, could hit a cop on foot. Silver car could go forward, but you don't squeeze in front of a U-turning car, and doing so could've made things worse for all they knew.

by mxfh 7mo ago

tapoxi 7mo ago

You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here?

nine_zeros 7mo ago
[dead]
KennyBlanken 7mo ago
The person who was ultimately responsible for a defective robot operating on our public streets, at a bare minimum.
- general1465 7mo ago
  A customer?
aduty 7mo ago
Start disabling and towing their cars and watch a solution magically appear.
wnevets 7mo ago
> You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here? That's the best part, no one! We have finally managed to invent a system that widely disperses accountability so much no one can be held liable when something goes wrong.
- gruez 7mo ago
  >no one can be held liable when something goes wrong. No, at the very least tort laws still apply even if the driver is a corporation. Do you really need someone sitting in jail to satisfy your justice boner?
  - AngryData 7mo ago
    If someone sitting in jail doesn't help solve the problem, then maybe we should remove the jail penalty to for individuals that do it.
    - gruez 7mo ago
      >then maybe we should remove the jail penalty to for individuals that do it. We don't send everyone to jail either. You can run over people and get away scot free, if it's an honest mistake and you weren't being negligent.
      - plagiarist 7mo ago
        Or if you were being negligent but due to affluenza.
    - cwmoore 7mo ago
      Yes. Jail sentences are for a selection of some misdemeanors and not others. The person does or cooperates with X amount of harm, they ought to share similar penalties.
  - smeggysmeg 7mo ago
    Yes, I want to see real, serious punishment for corporate crimes, on par with the life disruption experienced by people who see a jail sentence. It's almost always brutal - major income disruption, job loss, etc. If it's a small fine, which it always seems to be for corporations, then there is no incentive for following the law. I'm also in favor of corporate death sentences for large-scale egregious violations - liquidate assets and jail executives. By corporatizing social harms, basically nobody is ever held accountable - except for the little guy.
musicjerm 7mo ago
The passenger
glennpratt 7mo ago
Nobody gets arrested, you get a ticket.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
cameldrv 7mo ago
Since corporations are people, presumably you’d arrest Waymo.
seanmcdirmid 7mo ago
> You can arrest a driver for not making space for an emergency vehicle. Who do we arrest here? I get that it is technically possible, but that doesn't happen in practice.
porridgeraisin 7mo ago
This is the key. Personally I think you just have to something similar to an auditor or whatever. Demand that if a self driving taxi operates in your city, they assign one legally responsible person per $major-division-of-city. All accidents in that region are due to that guy. Naturally, this will incentivise them to improve the system that deals with edge cases in their ML model, and better yet you'll have the legally responsible guy shit himself and directly manage remote drivers for his location himself. Adds another layer of accountability.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
hulitu 7mo ago
The CEO

briandw 7mo ago

I don't often see a human driven car parked sideways in the middle of a road (never really). If a human was in that Waymo, they would have moved quickly. I'm an huge fan of Waymo and autonomous vehicles. They save lives. However the fact that Waymo's don't have the sense to move out of the way is a major problem and on that they don't seem to be on track to solve. Incidents like this will delay the adoption of autonomous vehicles and that will cost lives.

bryanlarsen 7mo ago
> If a human was in that Waymo, they would have moved quickly. Some humans would have exactly the same response as the Waymo. When a human brain gets completely overwhelmed and doesn't know what to do, it drops down into animal behavior -- freeze or flee. Given that it's a dangerous multi-ton machine, a Waymo likely has a programmed default behavior of "do nothing & phone home for instructions". Which isn't an excuse -- an emergency vehicle is not an uncommon situation and Waymo should know what to do before being allowed on public roads. A failure to get remedy instructions in a timely fashion from a human is even more alarming. Google is famous for automating tasks that should be performed by a human.
throw4f3234 7mo ago
A human driver with health problems, or with car issues, might be like this. Similar to the Waymo having an equipment failure.

pigbearpig 7mo ago

Give me a break. The problem is the Waymo that is blocking a lane sideways and is not pulling forward out of the way of the ambulance, a move that even the worst human drivers would likely know to do. It does no good to pretend there aren't problems with self-driving cars or make excuses. It's not about the other entities.

tt24 7mo ago
Why are we focusing on entity A when the parent comment correctly pointed out entities B and C are not blameless either?
- foinker 7mo ago
  We're focusing on the waymo because it did this on its own for some inscrutable reason and there is no individual accountability, which is a far more useful discussion to be having if we are supposed to trust these things to be replacing humans on the road. The humans behavior is only relevant in the sense that now all humans on the road have an additional hazard to factor in: errant waymos that you can't gesture to or yell at or honk at or make any attempt to understand their intentions.
- Edman274 7mo ago
  Yes, why are we still talking about the robot whose behavior can be programmed and whose behavior is set by a company and rolled out to all of their vehicles deterministically, when another commenter correctly engaged in whataboutism?
- zadikian 7mo ago
  The other drivers are blameless. They did what they were supposed to.

tokyobreakfast 7mo ago

> there is ample place to pass This is the same excuse a Prius driver would give whilst refusing to abdicate the HOV lane for an ambulance and yes I've sadly seen this scenario play out. Multiple times, in fact. Prius driver seems oddly specific but it always is.

fennecbutt 7mo ago
Eh I've seen more SUV/big car drivers act like this than small car drivers, but then I live in the UK. A friend who lived in New York for a bit would never live there again and says driving there was an absolute nightmare; everyone's out for themselves. And you can see it in multiple "drivers react to an ambulance in different countries videos", with America the ambulance is always blocked and going slowly. Compare to Germany where they open up the entire middle of the road by moving to either side.
- FireBeyond 7mo ago
  Agreed, tbh. In Seattle, the most ritualistic abusers of the HOV lanes are large SUVs and trucks with only a driver in them. Also, ex-paramedic, three cases fairly similar, but the one I found most egregious, was us going lights and sirens on I-5 heading to Harborview, heavy heavy rain. Traffic on the freeway slowly but steadily goes right. Cue a single-occupant Escalade accelerate up, overtake us on the inside and pull into the HOV lane to take advantage of the cleared freeway in front of us. For bonus irony points, licence plate holder: "Don't drive faster than your angels can fly", lady, you just overtook an ambulance in emergency mode. We actually called that one in. Some satisfaction as we rolled by her a few minutes later, pulled over with a state trooper having lit her up, who points at us and shakes his head at her.
  - fennecbutt 7mo ago
    Ha! Always satisfying the few times justice is actually served. And different country, but still thank you for having been a paramedic. World definitely needs more people like you.

happytoexplain 7mo ago

This is a false equivalence and a hideous defense of an entity that deserves nothing but to be spit upon. There is absolutely nothing calling upon you to take this path.

steve-atx-7600 7mo ago

The ambulance driver rightly hesitates because he can’t know how the wamyo will behave. The wanyo is acting suss as hell.

croes 7mo ago

So AI drives as bad as humans. Waste of resources.

zadikian 7mo ago

Waymo car was the only thing at fault. Drivers are expected to stop to the side when they see the lights. I guess the red SUV could've slid behind the Waymo to let the ambulance do the same, but it'd be unwise without the police telling you to do so, could hit a cop on foot. Silver car could go forward, but you don't squeeze in front of a U-turning car, and doing so could've made things worse for all they knew.